OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[GracePeace]

"If" means impossible. Gods Word tells us "if it were possible, the very elect would be deceived". do you think God was saying that "if" means "it is" possible. You can't make "if" mean anything other than what it means.

The man was forgiven.
Do you agree?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

UNLESS of course,

one does NOT CONTINUE TO ABIDE IN CHRIST.

As Jesus taught and which some refuse to understand.

It says they will not bear fruit, it does not say they will lose salvation

Jesus said they would never die, they have eternal life. They will never hunger or thirst. You have jesus contradicting himself. If jesus can not even get his own story straight, I need to walk away. Because my foundation is not any good

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hmmmm.
Easy get-away.

Difficult to reply to Jesus, isn't it?

Just remember that HE makes the rules...
not me.

And HOW am I speaking to you?
YOU are the one that insulted me and continue to do so.

So, maybe you could get serious and reply to my post to you which included
the teachings of JESUS,,,,IN HIS WORDS.

Yes, He makes the rules


Salvation is a gift. He is offering it to you. Recieve it in faith. He will save you. And through that gift, perfect you forever while he goes on sanctifying you.

And you can be confident that he who began a good work in you will complete it

Or you can not recieve it in faith. Think it is to easy, you have to do your part. God says it is a gift, but really he means you must earn it. In which case, your not saved.. Because you have yet to repent. And come to God in true faith, You are still trusting yourself To much. You have not become poor in spirit (bankrupt)

 

[GracePeace]

"If" means impossible. Gods Word tells us "if it were possible, the very elect would be deceived". do you think God was saying that "if" means "it is" possible. You can't make "if" mean anything other than what it means.

I didn't ask you about that passage, I asked you about Matthew 18.
Why are you pretending to answer Matthew 18 when you are not answering it?

 

[GracePeace]

If you would have received the whole counsel, you would have anticipated these times and expected corrections. Most in Israel did not either, but rejected and crucified Him who was sent to them. And Who was to be sent during these times speaking what was not His? Did you think it was all just to be a new heart, beating the same old drum without correction?

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Oooooh! Spooky! I'm shivering!

Engage with the topic, quit the nonsense.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Jesus did not teach OSAS.
Nor did the Apostles.
Nor did those that the Apostles taught.

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, Jesus taught that the eldest son, that had gone away from his father's house,
returned and was FOUND AGAIN.
Luke 15:24
24for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’

Read the words of JESUS carefully....
The son came to life AGAIN...
this means the son
WAS ALIVE
THEN DIED
THEN CAME ALIVE AGAIN.

He was LOST while he was away from his father...
but now he has been found.

I think it would be best to follow the teachings of Jesus.



Are you a Pelagian?
Who taught you that God plays no part in our salvation?
You mean you think we save ourselves?
Then why the good news?



If you don't follow men,
then why are you following the teachings of A MAN named John Calvin?
Are you aware that you're following the teachings of a man?



It's the best news believers will ever hear.
What about everybody else?
WHY do you think it's called gospel?
It means GOOD NEWS.

Can you explain exactly what IS the GOOD NEWS in the reformed faith?
Is it good news for everyone or just those that God decides to choose to be saved and for no reason that we can every know?

That doesn't sound like good news to me.



Ephesians 1:4 Great example of how the reformed twist scripture to suit their needs.
It states:
JUST AS HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD....

Notice that when the NT speaks about CHOSEN or PREDESTINATION it is always referring to
HOW one is saved
or
PURPOSE for salvation

It never speaks of God choosing FOR salvation.

Ephesians explains that we were chosen IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world.
IN CHRIST

Just like Jesus states: We will be saved IF we abide IN HIM until the end.
This refers to a HOW we are saved.

Not a WHO.



Please read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 carefully.
We were chosen from the beginning for salvation THROUGH SANCTIFICATION.
THROUGH SANCTIFICATION

Again...this is referring to HOW we will be saved.

Not WHO will be saved.



Another good verse.
Please take note....
2 Timothy 1:9 states that we are called according to His purpose.
HIS PURPOSE.

Now we are told that our salvation has a purpose.

This refers to A PUPOSE.
NOT A WHO.

Chosen never refers to A WHO,
but a HOW or a PURPOSE.


Really?
Then why did Jesus say the following:

Matthew 7:24-29
24“Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and [t]acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25And the rain fell and the Matthew 7 New American Standard Biblefloods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not [v]act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27And the rain fell and the [w]floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and its collapse was great.”
28[x]When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching;
29for He was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.


Why is Jesus teaching to ACT on His words IF it's God that is just going to do everything and keep us saved?
Why are ANY instructions at all even necessary?




No CS.
The parable is about forgiveness.
Read it again and don't add your own ideas to it.
Read the NT simply and you'll understand better than having it spoon-fed to you BY MEN.

Thanks for your advice to read the NT simply, to get an understanding better than being spoon fed by men.

While that sounds reasonable, the truth is that it's an utterly foolish suggestion. It's extremely bad advice.

A Roman Catholic Priest, told me the awful truth about private reading of the Bible. He said, "the worst thing the Vatican ever did was to release the Bible to the public. Because when the average men on the street got their hands on it they all came away with radically opposed different interpretations, and now we have 45,000 opposing Christian Denominations".

The Priest was absolutely right, putting the Bible into the hands of the average Joe, caused the Church to disintegrated into 45,000 pieces. It literally destroyed the Church. Nobody wants to face the fact that what the Priest said is the undeniable truth, but I respect him for his honesty.

The sad truth is, everyone approaches the bible with their private expectation of what they want it to say and they make it say whatever they want it to say, just as you have perfectly demonstrated by denying everything God said in those verse and applying your private false narrative to Gods Word.

You do what every Denomination does, you claim to posses the only true interpretation and you claim that the other 44,999 Denominations have it all wrong. Can you see how arrogant and foolish it is to take part in that madness

 

[GracePeace]

Thanks for your advice to read the NT simply, to get an understanding better than being spoon fed by men.

While that sounds reasonable, the truth is that it's an utterly foolish suggestion. It's extremely bad advice.

A Roman Catholic Priest, told me the awful truth about private reading of the Bible. He said, "the worst thing the Vatican ever did was to release the Bible to the public. Because when the average men on the street got their hands on it they all came away with radically opposed different interpretations, and now we have 45,000 opposing Christian Denominations".

The Priest was absolutely right, putting the Bible into the hands of the average Joe, caused the Church to disintegrated into 45,000 pieces. It literally destroyed the Church. Nobody wants to face the fact that what the Priest said is the undeniable truth, but I respect him for his honesty.

The sad truth is, everyone approaches the bible with their private expectation of what they want it to say and they make it say whatever they want it to say, just as you have perfectly demonstrated by denying everything God said in those verse and applying your private false narrative to Gods Word.

You do what every Denomination does, you claim to posses the only true interpretation and you claim that the other 44,999 Denominations have it all wrong. Can you see how arrogant and foolish it is to take part in that madness

Why are you here pretending to discuss Scripture, then?

Either answer the questions put to you, or quit pretending.

Had the unforgiving steward been forgiven or not?

 

[Christian Soldier]

I didn't ask you about that passage, I asked you about Matthew 18.
Why are you pretending to answer Matthew 18 when you are not answering it?

Matt 18 uses the same "if" word which exposes your false doctrine. If you don't forgive doesn't mean I command you to forgive, why are you unable to comprehend a simple word???. How are you supposed to deal with big words when you can't even comprehend a simple word like "if".

I'm wondering if you're even serious, about wanting to learn. I know most people hate the awful truth, I hope you're not one of them.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You are wrong for rejecting what is plainly taught in the parable.

I do not reject that teaching. Yehovah has forgiven me and I have forgiven many that have sinned against me. That, by the way, is the clear meaning, if you do not reflect our Christ, it is possible you were never saved.

Personally, the Ruah reacts strongly in me if I sin.

 

[GracePeace]

Matt 18 uses the same "if" word which exposes your false doctrine. If you don't forgive doesn't mean I command you to forgive, why are you unable to comprehend a simple word???. How are you supposed to deal with big words when you can't even comprehend a simple word like "if".

I'm wondering if you're even serious, about wanting to learn. I know most people hate the awful truth, I hope you're not one of them.

Jesus not only says "if", He paints the picture for us about the eventuality--depicting God as rescinding forgiveness. Why would Jesus do that? Is that Jesus's habit? When else does He do that--depict God in a way that is impossible and will never occur?

In the parable, was the unforgiving steward forgiven?

Is it your position that Christians don't sin?

 

[GracePeace]

I do not reject that teaching. Yehovah has forgiven me and I have forgiven many that have sinned against me. That, by the way, is the clear meaning, if you do not reflect our Christ, it is possible you were never saved.

Personally, the Ruah reacts strongly in me if I sin.

The guy was saved in the parable.

 

[Christian Soldier]

God punishes every single sin, but not every single sinner. That's the distinction you are missing. WE weren't punished for our sins. CHRIST was punished for our sins. And that is not "justice" as the word is commonly understood by humans.

And I don 't accuse God of being a corrupt judge. I "accuse" Him of acting contrary to our human notions of justice.

I thank you for qualifying your statement with "our human notions of justice".

Gods Justice and ways are infinitely higher than ours. So it's not even possible to draw a comparison between our standard of justice and Gods standard.

Having established that it's not possible, we ought not bother trying to understand it as it will only result in utter confusion and disillusionment.

 

[Christian Soldier]

So, how does the guy have salvation (forgiveness), and, afterward, not have salvation (forgiveness)?

Why are we told he loses salvation (forgiveness) on account of his own refusal to forgive? Why does this parable teach the opposite of what you're saying?

The parable teaches the the guy was never forgiven in the first place. The guy came into the congregation, pretending to be a believer and enjoying the free fellowship lunch and getting to know all the pretty girls. But one day he was exposed as a false convert, because he didn't forgive one of the other Church goers for some offense they committed against him.

The Elders, Deacons and Stewards grabbed him and took him outside and beat him up real bad. Then they threw him down the bottomless pit, to make an example out of him.

The guy lost his salvation because it wasn't a genuine salvation, it was fake all along and everyone found out the truth in the end.

 

[GracePeace]

The parable teaches the the guy was never forgiven in the first place. The guy came into the congregation, pretending to be a believer and enjoying the free fellowship lunch and getting to know all the pretty girls. But one day he was exposed as a false convert, because he didn't forgive one of the other Church goers for some offense they committed against him.

The Elders, Deacons and Stewards grabbed him and took him outside and beat him up real bad. Then they threw him down the bottomless pit, to make an example out of him.

The guy lost his salvation because it wasn't a genuine salvation, it was fake all along and everyone found out the truth in the end.

No, it doesn't. It says "I forgave you all that debt".
Was that a lie? Should I believe you or the Word of God?

 

[Christian Soldier]

The man was forgiven.
Do you agree?

No way was he ever forgiven, God doesn't turn forgiven people over to the tormenters (the Devil and His Demons). Unless He wants the person to be destroyed.

 

[GracePeace]

Matt 18 uses the same "if" word which exposes your false doctrine. If you don't forgive doesn't mean I command you to forgive, why are you unable to comprehend a simple word???. How are you supposed to deal with big words when you can't even comprehend a simple word like "if".

I'm wondering if you're even serious, about wanting to learn. I know most people hate the awful truth, I hope you're not one of them.

What are some other examples of Jesus teaching parables that don't need to be taught, that He teaches in vain, because the lesson doesn't need to be learned, because the lesson He is teaching in the parable can never occur, and where He depicts God as doing something that He will never do? Is this the only one? "Interesting". "Convenient".

 

[GracePeace]

No way was he ever forgiven

Even though the King, representing God, in the parable, says "I forgave you all that debt". Past-tense. Forgave.

God doesn't turn forgiven people over to the tormenters (the Devil and His Demons). Unless He wants the person to be destroyed.

Not sure why you're pretending not to understand my point : God didn't turn a forgiven person over to tormentors, God RESCINDED His forgiveness, so the guy was no longer forgiven. Do you believe God can do that, like Jesus says, or do you have unbelief in Jesus's Words?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Why are you here pretending to discuss Scripture, then?

Either answer the questions put to you, or quit pretending.

Had the unforgiving steward been forgiven or not?

The unforgiving steward doesn't exist, so your question is invalid. I can only give an answer for something that actually exists. A parable is never meant to be taken literally, so there in lies the problem with your question.

Everyone seems to have their own take of what the parable is saying, nobody cares about the truth. Everybody is more concerned with the pride that comes with flying their Denominational flags.

 

[GracePeace]

The unforgiving steward doesn't exist, so your question is invalid. I can only give an answer for something that actually exists. A parable is never meant to be taken literally, so there in lies the problem with your question.

Everyone seems to have their own take of what the parable is saying, nobody cares about the truth. Everybody is more concerned with the pride that comes with flying their Denominational flags.

Do you really need to have it explained to you that Jesus tells parables to teach lessons about reality? You're saying there is no reality to which this parable corresponds, but, again, this would be a complete severance from Jesus's habit, so I and all other reasonable people reject the notion.

 

[Christian Soldier]

No, it doesn't. It says "I forgave you all that debt".
Was that a lie? Should I believe you or the Word of God?

Don't believe either of us, because no man was actually involved. The "man" was used to teach us a different lesson, forgiveness of our fellow servants was not the point of the parable. The parable actually speaks about how God saves His children from their sin and casts the Devils children into hell. The Devils children pretend to be Gods children but they are exposed because they don't have Gods Spirit indwelling them.

It's foolish to suggest that someone can receive the Holy Spirit and then chase the Holy Spirit out. It simply can't happen, unless the person is more powerful than God Himself, and that's the only way to cast out the Holy Spirit. In other words, it's impossible