The mark of the Man/beast

[Spiritual Israelite]

The new man walks in righteousness, the old man walks in unrighteousness.

Put on the new man…

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a “new creature:” “old things are passed away;”behold, all things are become “new.”

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a “new creature.”

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in “newness”of life.

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the “new man,”which after God is created “in righteousness”and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the “new man,”which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, (old man) even so in Christ (new man) shall all be made alive.

Put on the “new man”…

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have “put on Christ.”

Romans 13:14
But “put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,”and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

The old man is of the earth, and is born of “the flesh,”being natural or “carnally minded” having a “sin nature”

1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man (old man)is of the earth, earthy; the “second man”(new man)is the Lord from heaven.

The new man is born from above by the Holy Spirit, being spiritual He is “spiritually minded”having the “Divine nature”of God.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the “divine nature,”having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

In the old man there is “Death”because of sin, in the new man there is “Life”because of Righteousness.

Romans 8:6
For to be “carnally minded is death;”but to be “spiritually minded is life and peace.”

Yes, our minds should be on pursuing righteousness and if they're not there's something wrong, but nowhere does any of this say that we become sinless after being born again. Your doctrine removes God's grace from the equation and requires people to be perfect in order to maintain their salvation and scripture never teaches that. Paul made it clear that it's possible to want to do the right thing and not do it. The only way to overcome the flesh that wars against us is to submit to the Holy Spirit. But, to think that we need to do that perfectly at all times or else we'll be condemned is nonsense. That is not salvation by God's grace through faith and not by our own works and righteousness.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

No, that is not what I'm saying. Are you denying that we have been made free from the wages of sin?

Sin still has consequences. If a believer falls away from the faith back to sin they shall die in their sins.
Ezekiel 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Before being saved, we were dead in our sins and were "children of wrath" (Eph 2:3). You don't think we've been made free from what? Of course we have! So, what I'm saying absolutely is NOT false.

That is why you must not die in your sins, because if you are still in your sins then you are dead spiritually. When you are made free from sin then you are spiritually alive because you are now made righteous and will do righteous works. You cannot be “in sin” and “in Christ” because in Him there is no sin.

Now, here you are again coming across as if you believe that one must be sinless in order to maintain his or her salvation, which is utterly false!

If you fall away from the faith back into unrepentant sin you will wither and die.

It's just as I thought. You do not accept what is written in 1 John 1:8-10 and Ephesians 2:8-10. You make no distinction between willful and unwillful sin like scripture does.

I know the difference

Not serving sin does not equate to being sinless.

You cannot die in your sins, if you do you will perish.

Where is grace in your doctrine? You deny it, but if you think someone has to be sinless or reach a point where they no longer sin in order to be saved, then you are sadly mistaken.

Sin shall not have rule over you if you are truly born again of God and under His grace.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That means you remove God's grace from the requirements for salvation and make salvation by works instead of salvation by grace through faith and not by works.

Gods grace makes a person free from the bondage of sin, it is not a license to sin.

You proved your lack of understanding by contradicting what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 by falsely claiming that those he was rebuking weren't born again Christians. They absolutely were or else Paul would not have called them "babes in Christ". I said that maturing in the faith takes time and is a process and you said you agreed, but your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 says otherwise.

Go learn what the word carnal means and how this heart/ mind/ spirit is at enmity against the Spirit of God.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Yes, our minds should be on pursuing righteousness and if they're not there's something wrong, but nowhere does any of this say that we become sinless after being born again. Your doctrine removes God's grace from the equation and requires people to be perfect in order to maintain their salvation and scripture never teaches that. Paul made it clear that it's possible to want to do the right thing and not do it. The only way to overcome the flesh that wars against us is to submit to the Holy Spirit. But, to think that we need to do that perfectly at all times or else we'll be condemned is nonsense. That is not salvation by God's grace through faith and not by our own works and righteousness.

If you live in sin you shall die. If you put to death sin in your life by the power of the Holy Spirit you shall live.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh,(sin) ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, (sin) ye shall live.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sin still has consequences. If a believer falls away from the faith back to sin they shall die in their sins.
Ezekiel 3:20
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

I agree, but what do you mean by this exactly? Please be more specific so that I don't have to constantly guess as to what you're intending to say and so that I don't end up unintentionally misrepresenting your view. Stop being vague, please. What is your understanding of what it means to fall away back to sin exactly? How exactly do you believe that occurs?

That is why you must not die in your sins, because if you are still in your sins then you are dead spiritually. When you are made free from sin then you are spiritually alive because you are now made righteous and will do righteous works. You cannot be “in sin” and “in Christ” because in Him there is no sin.

Again, I agree, but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this. So, what do you think it means exactly for someone to die in their sins? You accuse me of purposely misrepresenting your view, which is absolutely not true. The reason I may sometimes misrepresent your view is because you are not specific enough for me to know for sure what you are intending to say.

If you fall away from the faith back into unrepentant sin you will wither and die.

Yep. Unrepentant, willful (purposeful, deliberate) sin done in willful rebellion against God. Not unwillful sin (Romans 7:14-25) that you can confess and God is faithful and just to forgive you for (1 John 1:9). What you're saying here is what the following passage is about:

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God

I know the difference

You cannot die in your sins, if you do you will perish.

Sin shall not have rule over you if you are truly born again of God and under His grace.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gods grace makes a person free from the bondage of sin, it is not a license to sin.

I have not said otherwise. Anyone who think God's grace is a license to sin is fooling themselves. But, to think that avoiding sin is just automatic after we become saved is a case of ignoring the battle going on inside of us of the flesh trying to get us to do what we don't want to do, as Paul wrote about in Romans 7:14-25. We need to willingly and actively submit to the Holy Spirit in order to overcome temptation and the lusts of the flesh. If we have moments of weakness where we give in to the flesh even though we don't want to then "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9).

Go learn what the word carnal means and how this heart/ mind/ spirit is at enmity against the Spirit of God.

I know what it means, but it takes some Christians more time than others to learn what it means. You give no allowance of any time for a new Christian to grow in their faith and learn these things. You remove grace from the requirements of salvation with your doctrine that contradicts Paul who called immature Christians "babes in Christ" by trying to say they were not actually Christians as Paul said they were. Go learn what it means to be "in Christ". It means you are a born again Christian.

If you read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 you should see that Paul said "the natural man" can't understand the deeper things of God. These "babes in Christ" were acting like "the natural man". This does not mean they had not understanding of the gospel or of basic things of Christianity which Paul referred to as "milk". They had no understanding of the deeper things of God yet, which Paul called "meat" or "solid food". You are making salvation dependent on understanding the deeper things of God like we talk about on this forum in order to be saved, but scripture never teaches this.

Yes, it's true that if someone is not growing in their faith, then they are at risk of falling away from the faith, so it is important to tell immature Christians that they need to start growing in their faith and becoming mature Christians or else they are in danger of falling away from the faith.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you live in sin you shall die. If you put to death sin in your life by the power of the Holy Spirit you shall live.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh,(sin) ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, (sin) ye shall live.

You are always so vague. Please don't make me guess as to what you are intending to say. What exactly do you believe it means to "live in sin"? How exactly does someone "put to death sin in your life by the power of the Holy Spirit"? What do you think that means exactly and how much time does one get to do that? And what if someone doesn't do that? They are then condemned to hell. What if someone becomes a born again Christian, but are immature at first as new Christians tend to be, and they die soon after before they've had time to start growing much in their faith and put to death sin in their lives. Do you think they are then condemned to hell because they did not put to death sin in their lives?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

.What is your understanding of what it means to fall away back to sin exactly? How exactly do you believe that occurs?

If you return to living in unrepentant willful sin.

So, what do you think it means exactly for someone to die in their sins?

When you are born again of the Holy Spirit your sins are blotted out and forgiven= 0 sins. But if you return to unrepentant willful sin then there remains no more sacrifice for those sins, and you will die in your sins.

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God

Correct

But, to think that avoiding sin is just automatic after we become saved is a case of ignoring the battle going on inside of us of the flesh trying to get us to do what we don't want to do, as Paul wrote about in Romans 7:14-25. We need to willingly and actively submit to the Holy Spirit in order to overcome temptation and the lusts of the flesh. If we have moments of weakness where we give in to the flesh even though we don't want to then "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9).

We have to win that battle and put to death sin in us by the power of the Holy Spirit. We have to overcome.

I know what it means, but it takes some Christians more time than others to learn what it means. You give no allowance of any time for a new Christian to grow in their faith and learn these things. You remove grace from the requirements of salvation with your doctrine that contradicts Paul who called immature Christians "babes in Christ" by trying to say they were

That is the spiritual war that must be won inside each and every saint. But some were prophesied to lose that war and be overcome by the evil one.

Go learn what it means to be "in Christ". It means you are a born again Christian.

Here is what it means to be “in Christ” and have Christ “the seed” in you.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

If you read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 you should see that Paul said "the natural man" can't understand the deeper things of God. These "babes in Christ" were acting like "the natural man". This does not mean they had not understanding of the gospel or of basic things of Christianity which Paul referred to as "milk". They had no understanding of the deeper things of God yet, which Paul called "meat" or "solid food". You are making salvation dependent on understanding the deeper things of God like we talk about on this forum in order to be saved, but scripture never teaches this.

The natural man means you are still in Adam and in sin. The spiritual man means you are now in Christ and in Righteousness

Yes, it's true that if someone is not growing in their faith, then they are at risk of falling away from the faith, so it is important to tell immature Christians that they need to start growing in their faith and becoming mature Christians or else they are in danger of falling away from the faith.

Right

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You are always so vague. Please don't make me guess as to what you are intending to say. What exactly do you believe it means to "live in sin"? How exactly does someone "put to death sin in your life by the power of the Holy Spirit"? What do you think that means exactly and how much time does one get to do that? And what if someone doesn't do that? They are then condemned to hell. What if someone becomes a born again Christian, but are immature at first as new Christians tend to be, and they die soon after before they've had time to start growing much in their faith and put to death sin in their lives. Do you think they are then condemned to hell because they did not put to death sin in their lives?

Putting to death sin in your life means you will no longer sin. If sin is dead in you then you are free from its power over your life. If you are dead to sin and alive to righteousness then you will DO righteousness.

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be deadindeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alivefrom the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When you are born again of the Holy Spirit your sins are blotted out and forgiven= 0 sins. But if you return to unrepentant willful sin then there remains no more sacrifice for those sins, and you will die in your sins.

I agree. But, do you see all sin as unrepentant willful sin or not?

We have to win that battle and put to death sin in us by the power of the Holy Spirit. We have to overcome.

Yes, but you again are not being specific, which is a bit frustrating. How exactly do you think we win that battle? How exactly do you think we put to death sin in us by the power of the Holy Spirit?

That is the spiritual war that must be won inside each and every saint. But some were prophesied to lose that war and be overcome by the evil one.

Yes, but since we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, the way that someone is overcome is by the evil one convincing the person to lose their faith, right? As is talked about here:

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.".

So, if someone who previously had a believing heart develops a sinful, unbelieving heart that means they have been overcome and have turned away from the living God. Agree? And we must "hold our original conviction firmly to the very end". What is our original conviction? The conviction we have when we are first saved when we repent and decide to change our minds about sin and that we want to live righteously and follow Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, right? No one is fully mature in their faith when they first become saved, yet it says we need to maintain our original conviction to the end. That means we need to maintain the original desire of our hearts to follow Jesus and obey Him. It doesn't mean we need to be perfect and sinless to the very end. That would means salvation is by our own works and righteousness, which it is not. A person can sin without wanting to (Romans 7:14-25). And John said we (including himself) will be forgiven our sins if we confess them (1 John 1:9). The key is to hold on to our faith and trust in Jesus for salvation rather than in ourselves or anyone else to the very end.

Here is what it means to be “in Christ” and have Christ “the seed” in you.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The natural man means you are still in Adam and in sin. The spiritual man means you are now in Christ and in Righteousness

Again, you are not being entirely specific. You are coming across here as if you're saying that being born of God (being saved) requires you to never sin. Is that what you are intending to say?

And, again, Paul said the immature believers he rebuked in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 "babes in Christ". So, they were "in Christ" according to Paul. You say they were not. I'm going to side with Paul over you every time. They were "in Christ", but were spiritually immature and needed to learn how to be mature Christian which doesn't just automatically happen right away after becoming a Christian. God needs to work on us and chisel away the rough edges as we progress towards spiritual maturity and sanctification., which takes time. And it might take more time for some than others.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Putting to death sin in your life means you will no longer sin. If sin is dead in you then you are free from its power over your life. If you are dead to sin and alive to righteousness then you will DO righteousness.

Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be deadindeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alivefrom the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

So, do you believe that in order to maintain salvation and go to heaven a person has to get to the point where they no longer sin? If so, what about a person who becomes a Christian and dies not long after that and before they had time to grow in the faith? They are condemned to hell or do they go to heaven?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I agree. But, do you see all sin as unrepentant willful sin or not?

No

Yes, but you again are not being specific, which is a bit frustrating. How exactly do you think we win that battle? How exactly do you think we put to death sin in us by the power of the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh,(sin) ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify ( put to death) the deeds of the body,( sin) ye shall live.” If sin is put to death in you by the Spirit, then sin being dead is no longer active in your life.

So, if someone who previously had a believing heart develops a sinful, unbelieving heart that means they have been overcome and have turned away from the living God. Agree? And we must "hold our original conviction firmly to the very end". What is our original conviction? The conviction we have when we are first saved when we repent and decide to change our minds about sin and that we want to live righteously and follow Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, right?

Right

No one is fully mature in their faith when they first become saved, yet it says we need to maintain our original conviction to the end. That means we need to maintain the original desire of our hearts to follow Jesus and obey Him. It doesn't mean we need to be perfect and sinless to the very end. That would means salvation is by our own works and righteousness, which it is not.

Right, but babes are supposed to grow to maturity. The only way to be made perfect is abiding in Christ.
John 17:23
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

A person can sin without wanting to (Romans 7:14-25).

You are misunderstanding Romans 7. Paul was speaking after the manner of the carnally minded man.
Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh.” Paul was trying to relate to the struggles of those who were still in the flesh.

And John said we (including himself) will be forgiven our sins if we confess them (1 John 1:9). The key is to hold on to our faith and trust in Jesus for salvation rather than in ourselves or anyone else to the very end.

Right you have to abide in the faith. But sinning is not abiding in the faith is it? So yes, if we repent of our sins they can be forgiven. But sin can be overcome by faith as well.

Again, you are not being entirely specific. You are coming across here as if you're saying that being born of God (being saved) requires you to never sin. Is that what you are intending to say?

You should be striving for perfection, as Jesus said be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. We need to have zero tolerance for sin in our lives. We have to resist temptation.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

So, do you believe that in order to maintain salvation and go to heaven a person has to get to the point where they no longer sin?

We have to resist temptation, we have to fight the good fight, we have abide in God’s Word, we have to overcome sin, the world, and the evil one.

If so, what about a person who becomes a Christian and dies not long after that and before they had time to grow in the faith? They are condemned to hell or do they go to heaven?

I think the thief on the cross is the answer to your question.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right, but babes are supposed to grow to maturity. The only way to be made perfect is abiding in Christ.
John 17:23
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Yes, I agree.

You are misunderstanding Romans 7. Paul was speaking after the manner of the carnally minded man.
Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh.” Paul was trying to relate to the struggles of those who were still in the flesh.

No, he was not. He spoke in the first person. He wasn't just talking about himself, but he was talking from a Christian perspective there. Think about this. Does an unsaved person struggle against sinful desires or care to try to fight against them? For the most part, no. You don't seem to want to acknowledge that battle that goes on inside all of us. We're not machines. We are responsible to actively take our thoughts captive and actively fight against temptation and the lusts of the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:10 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Paul makes it clear that we are in a spiritual war, but we don't fight with the weapons of the world. As he said in Ephesians 6:12 our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual enemy. The spiritual enemy tries to appeal to our flesh our sinful nature to get us to do what we don't want to do. We have to fight against that. We may not win every time, but that has to be our goal. If that ever stops being our goal then that indicates a very serious problem and we could be in danger of falling away.

Right you have to abide in the faith. But sinning is not abiding in the faith is it? So yes, if we repent of our sins they can be forgiven. But sin can be overcome by faith as well.

Sinning willfully is not abiding in the faith. If we sin out of a moment of weakness when we don't want to, that doesn't mean we have lost our faith. We can confess our sins in that case and God is faithful and just to forgive us (1 John 1:9). Don't miss that John was talking to believers and was including himself in what he said in 1 John 1:8-10 by saying "we", "our" and "us". He understood that we are not perfect, but that should be our goal and we should strive for that because God wants His people to take sin seriously since He does, and wants us to pursue righteousness and holiness because He wants us to strive to be like Him.

You should be striving for perfection, as Jesus said be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

Yes! Notice that's what I just said above. I think we are actually getting on the same page here after previously thinking we were far apart on this. This is why we need to be gracious and patient towards each other while we work on understanding what the other believes. This is why we should try to be as specific as possible when explaining our beliefs in order to avoid misunderstandings.

We need to have zero tolerance for sin in our lives. We have to resist temptation.

Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. Anyone who does not have that kind of perspective is in danger of falling away form the faith and they need to read passages like Hebrews 3:12-16 and take it to heart.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We have to resist temptation, we have to fight the good fight, we have abide in God’s Word, we have to overcome sin, the world, and the evil one.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

I think the thief on the cross is the answer to your question.

Yes, exactly. Very glad to see that we are actually on the same page on this once we got around to being more clear as to what we believe about this. The thief on the cross didn't get a chance to do any of the good works that God would have had for him to do if he had the chance. But, God knew his heart.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You don't seem to want to acknowledge that battle that goes on inside all of us. We're not machines. We are responsible to actively take our thoughts captive and actively fight against temptation and the lusts of the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10:10 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Paul makes it clear that we are in a spiritual war, but we don't fight with the weapons of the world. As he said in Ephesians 6:12 our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual enemy. The spiritual enemy tries to appeal to our flesh our sinful nature to get us to do what we don't want to do. We have to fight against that. We may not win every time, but that has to be our goal. If that ever stops being our goal then that indicates a very serious problem and we could be in danger of falling away.


Sinning willfully is not abiding in the faith. If we sin out of a moment of weakness when we don't want to, that doesn't mean we have lost our faith. We can confess our sins in that case and God is faithful and just to forgive us (1 John 1:9). Don't miss that John was talking to believers and was including himself in what he said in 1 John 1:8-10 by saying "we", "our" and "us". He understood that we are not perfect, but that should be our goal and we should strive for that because God wants His people to take sin seriously since He does, and wants us to pursue righteousness and holiness because He wants us to strive to be like Him.


Yes! Notice that's what I just said above. I think we are actually getting on the same page here after previously thinking we were far apart on this. This is why we need to be gracious and patient towards each other while we work on understanding what the other believes. This is why we should try to be as specific as possible when explaining our beliefs in order to avoid misunderstandings.


Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. Anyone who does not have that kind of perspective is in danger of falling away form the faith and they need to read passages like Hebrews 3:12-16 and take it to heart.

Sure I do, I have written several studies about this spiritual war, as I have also fought this spiritual war as well. It begins when you first receive the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 10:32
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

But this war can be won if you abide in Christ and resist temptation.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it

The power of the Spirit can purge your heart/ mind from sinful thoughts.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sure I do, I have written several studies about this spiritual war, as I have also fought this spiritual war as well. It begins when you first receive the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 10:32
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

But this war can be won if you abide in Christ and resist temptation.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it

The power of the Spirit can purge your heart/ mind from sinful thoughts.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Agree. But, this is not easy, of course. It takes mental and spiritual effort to fight this war. The key is to submit your will to the Holy Spirit and let Him fight on your behalf in His power instead of relying on our own power when we don't even have any of our own. This is something immature "babes in Christ" need to start learning before it's too late and they start to be overcome by the spiritual enemy which can lead to them falling away from the faith.

Okay, I think we can put this topic to rest now and move on. I don't have anything to add that I haven't already said about it.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Agree. But, this is not easy, of course. It takes mental and spiritual effort to fight this war. The key is to submit your will to the Holy Spirit and let Him fight on your behalf in His power instead of relying on our own power when we don't even have any of our own. This is something immature "babes in Christ" need to start learning before it's too late and they start to be overcome by the spiritual enemy which can lead to them falling away from the faith.

Okay, I think we can put this topic to rest now and move on. I don't have anything to add that I haven't already said about it.

When I received the anointing of the Holy Spirit and it was revealed to me that the mark of the man/beast is sin. And I saw how many people were be being deceived about the dangers of sin by false teachers. I made it a point to focus on this topic more so than any other. Because it is sin that will get peoples names blotted out of the book of Life.

Exodus 32:33
And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Peace

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The new man walks in righteousness, the old man walks in unrighteousness.

Put on the new man…

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a “new creature:” “old things are passed away;”behold, all things are become “new.”

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a “new creature.”

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in “newness”of life.

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the “new man,”which after God is created “in righteousness”and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the “new man,”which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, (old man) even so in Christ (new man) shall all be made alive.

Put on the “new man”…

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have “put on Christ.”

Romans 13:14
But “put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,”and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

The old man is of the earth, and is born of “the flesh,”being natural or “carnally minded” having a “sin nature”

1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man (old man)is of the earth, earthy; the “second man”(new man)is the Lord from heaven.

The new man is born from above by the Holy Spirit, being spiritual He is “spiritually minded”having the “Divine nature”of God.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the “divine nature,”having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

In the old man there is “Death”because of sin, in the new man there is “Life”because of Righteousness.

Romans 8:6
For to be “carnally minded is death;”but to be “spiritually minded is life and peace.”

Every verse you quote is 100% true and cause fo r us to rejoice. But what you have put blinders on is that you must die to the old man daily in your soul! Though god has rendered him dead, He still seeks to gain control of the throne of your life.

When we are "in Christ" we are incapable of sin. But at times every believer, including you walks in the old man. That is why Jesus is filled with mercy and will forgive each of Hisw children 70X7.

As Hebrews tells us, now that we belong to Jesus and are sealed to teh day of our redemption- He will NEVER leave or forsake us! You can try to leave HIm, but He won't leave you!