Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
You're still making stuff up, so that you can level an accusation... that is what an accuser does, after all.
James 4:7 says "Resist the accuser."
What are we doing?
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James 4:7 says "Resist the accuser."
I have been toying with the idea that we are "commanded" to love one another (as if that changes the love we have been given?), so this thread resonated with me.
There is something to be said for coming back to the way that the Holy Spirit loves us, as a kind of ground, when what the Devil wants is for us to be unstable.
Props to you for having the courage to suggest that the way we do it: is not necessarily perfect!
Transference. And falsehoods. Playing the victim. And then accusing that I'm the Devil.
Now your behavior leads to your name making sense. And levying a warning to every Christian here.
I will never read you again.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
You're not the devil. But when you accuse others falsely, you act like him. John 8:44
God does love us.
I think we have to differentiate as to where our love and respect should be shared with others.
When Jesus said to love our neighbor as ourselves, he was speaking to an insular Jewish community.
Whereas when we're told to love our enemies, and offer ourselves to be their punching bag if they commit an offensive assault the first time, and to give a thief our cloak when they first steal our purse, a violation of God's command,thou shalt not steal, we're being told something that conflicts with God's words.
Those passages that tell us to have nothing to do with darkness . And to beware that which calls evil good and good evil.
There are evil people in this world. Ask yourself,if we are to be more merciful to them than God who will judge them to enter Hell for all time for being evil?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
To whom was he referring when he told us to love our enemies? (Matthew 5:43-48)
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
What a sickening and misguided thought.
Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Luke 6:37
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
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And that book can have names removed from it. OSAS is an evil wicked, terrible doctrine of devils that breeds sin and blasphemes God's character.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
No... Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is our assurance of salvation. If you throw that away, you are left with "NOSAS", better known as eternal insecurity. The wait and see doctrine. Cross your fingers and hope for the best? You may be toast. Oh well, too bad. Right?
My view is that we cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even reprobation is God's choice, not ours. The Good shepherd goes after the lost sheep to carry them back to the fold.
Which you call "an evil wicked, terrible doctrine of devils that breeds sin and blasphemes God's character"? (for shame)
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We gather together here and possibly at other Christian forums.
And we debate not using traditional debate protocols so that it ends up as arguing, as to what our, "my" , personal relationship with God is.
The New Testament for Christians is a love letter to us. Because we have a personal relationship with the Creator of all that exists.
Have you noticed though?
We don't share like a family does.
We argue about who is right about what it means to have that relationship with God.
As if it is imperative we all see Him through the same lens.
The Gospel is rather simple.
Actually not so simple. God's salvation is hidden in Christ. Very few will find the way into Christ and walk as He walked. If the gospel was that simple there would not be ten thousand denominations. All the ways to NOT understand the mystery of the gospel.
Evangelicalism tries to undermine the mystery by making the gospel about naming and claiming...both of which are condemned in the bible. It just so happens that when one group champions a verse without understanding it, then other people see the error and stay away...and form another church based on a different error.
But the gospel is about spiritual life...an eternal KIND of life. Not for the crowds.
It's funny that the word for church congregation in the bible is now the word for crowd in Hebrew. (Kehal). We've become a crowd, a mob even...based on membership to a theory.
Amen. But saved to what? No one ever asks the more pertinent questions.
But what do we do with that gift? Bury it? Misuse it to hurt others.....to judge others?
This is not a humble stance. It is based on a religious certainty that will see MANY disappointed on judgment day. There will be weeping and anger.
The modern church culture is against both humility and the fear of the Lord.
How do you call people into repentance who believe they have need of nothing? Check out the Laodicean church record for clarification.
And we need to be faithful till the end to be part of His people...Called, chosen AND faithful.
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev. 17:14
The kingdom of God is something to enter into to walk as Jesus walked. People will argue from their flesh against that level of walk. And they will create myriads of denominations to justify themselves OUTSIDE of that intimate spiritual walk. We call that religion.
This forum doesn't take sides...it is NOT a denomination or church...but investigates the different possibilities that can be apprehended if we are open minded and hearted.
Do people stick to the subject at hand? A lot of people troll and seek to disparage a person for holding a different view. Everybody sees themselves as being right.
In my view the proof is in the honesty and reading skills of the poster. As in... What does the bible say apart from what we are saying....
The truth is more nuanced than a simple sound bite. Once saved always saved IF we endure to the end. And then saved to what end? Alive in outer darkness forever? Alive in the nations? Alive to be with Christ forever?
We will be judged by our choices....what we did with what we were given. Righteousness is about actions...and faith is an action...a spiritual action. Holiness is about what God chooses...where we have no say at all.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
It sounds as though you are condemning "ten thousand denominations."
Is there no "spiritual life...an eternal KIND of life" in those "ten thousand denominations"?
To be clear, I too am critical of Evangelicalism and their "certainty" formulas that overlook the mystery of faith.
Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation
Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]
www.christianityboard.com
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All denominations are trying to put a fence around the truth. All have failed. Better to let God have control.
The truth has no fence around it. The truth is LIVING and eternal. Our ideas perish like the grass. Better to enter into His truth.
Only God knows who are His. But we can make our calling and election more sure by looking upward to God and stop trusting in men. Jesus said that the Spirit would guide us into all truth...not seminary students, or religious careerists.
Agreed. We can agree on what it is NOT. But that doesn't bring unity. Only the actual life of Christ flowing through us brings divine unity.To be clear, I too am critical of Evangelicalism and their "certainty" formulas that overlook the mystery of faith.
Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation
Faith is not required to believe a certainty. How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty? All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty. Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith? ]
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
How can that be quantified?
- Did I endure enough?
- Could I have endured more?
- Does one lose their salvation at the age that they lose their mental faculties?
- Is leaving the church equal to not enduring 'til the end?
My 93 year old mother is attending Catholic services at the care facility where she now lives.
Did this lifetime Protestant lose her faith by trading it for some borrowed Rosary Beads used in the Adoration of Mary?
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I think agreeing on what it is NOT does bring unity. As does accepting each other despite our differences in what it is.
The Unity and Division threads - Unified to one topic - Divided by links
Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic. Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ. Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may...
www.christianityboard.com
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No one knows their end. Being more certain just makes you more surprised if you fail. Fearing the LORD is better than certainty. Our certainty is in His character to judge righteously. :)
Only God knows. Maybe your mother is onto something that others have missed? God will not judge us based on our religious beliefs. If He did then no one would be saved. No, it is based on our love and actions. If attending Catholic services helps her to love more, then so be it.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I don't mind the forum having a statement of faith. But the moment it becomes a standard by which members are judged as being "orthodox", and penalises them for being different, it ceases to be a statement of how the admin understands things up to the present, and becomes a creed which shuts out any possibility of learning or correction.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I have a theory that EVERYONE will be surprised at where they end up. (and at where OTHERS ended up)
Whatever that means... ???
Yes, I believe it does. I was as surprised as I was delighted and amused. The priest is a really good man. We agreed that the same God is worshiped either way.
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If we comfort ourselves (self-generated) with a religious certainty then we don't need the comfort that comes from God. We are to fear God and depend on Him to comfort us. Notice what the early church experienced...
“Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.” Acts 9:31
I see those who nurture carnal religious assurances as children who suck their thumbs and hold onto security blankets as if they were some kind of real protection.
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