No, like a few on this board you just disparage what you can't refute.
I don't. :)
Grace and peace to you.
Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed
- Thread starter Phoneman777
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yes, the truth
We have Gods standard (perfection) Even Jesus said no one is GOOD but God. so when we all stand in front of God with our nakedness of everything we have done in our lifetime, we are standning in front Guilty, not just accused, but guilty.
So the question is, God wants to cover your nakedness (your sin) by the innocence of his son, being slain on that cross.. will you come to him having your sin covered, Or come to him guilty and uncovered.
if anyone thinks they are not guilty. I worry for their very soul
Jesus
He who believes is not condemned
he who does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed.
The sin debt was paid on the cross. for everyone, (even though the calvinist will disagree, they do not understand the truth)
Rejection of his son will never be forgiven
You have no sin? Your perfect?
Then by definition you are a sinner.
God does not see your sin if you are covered (saved) but you admit you still sin.
And you only sin at times? Wow. Wish I could be that mature of a believer I only mess up every now and then.
Like paul. I see my sin for what it is, oh what a wretched man I am, who will save me from this body of sin.
Of course he had the answer. the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of Gods righteousness
Yes, Amen.
But the fact we even need to confess or state or acknowledge our sins to God shows we are still by definition sinners
I am a child of God.
I also still sin, so by defenition I am still a sinner. When I think I am no longer a sinner, I am in danger because I think I have arrived.
Do you still sin? I am not understanding your line of question. I admit i still sin yet you seem to be attacking me, I am confused.
Whats amazing, is you are the one who is against the security we have in Christ. My security is completely in Christ.
I am A Child of God, and am secure because of it, because I am gods son, I am secure in him. I have not been given the spirit of fear, but a sound mind, I can come to the throne of grace because I am his son.. not in fear. but he is my Abba Father.
But because I admit I still sin, I am wrong?
shaking my head.
Who said anything about giving up?
You stop already, stop assuming you know what I am saying and my frame of mind
me admitting I am not perfect is not me giving up. It is me admitting like paul did, There are times I want to do good. but struggle. there are times I do not want to do bad. yet still struggle. You do not have this war in your soul? Like I said, if you have this, please share. because paul could not even get to where you are at
You want to ignore you sin and say you are sinless. feel free
I will look to God and lay my sin before him and not ignore it like it is not there.
Yes he was, He cursed people who liked game of thrones and said they could not be saved or following God. do you believe this also?
No. Legalism comes in many forms, That is just one form of legalism.
It is also when someone reads a bood. and people says they can not be a child of God because they read the book. Or when they say a man who has long hair or a woman does not wear a dress,..or if you drink cuss or smoke, you can't be a christian.
I have witnessed and been part of it all.
Legalism is when that same adultress is being told she can't be saved, because she commited such a grave sin she could not be a child of God.
Yet the person who is judging her has his or her own sin issue. when they reject or deny or make little of it, because they have not done this bad of a sin
I did not see this, I saw him admit like I do that we still sin. and God does not kick us out of his family because we sin.
you saw what you want to see.. And you do not see what you do not want to see.
I think I would put it in the words of the great Simon and Garfunkel (not profits, but mere bards... :)), from The Boxer in 1968... "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..."
Grace and peace to you, EG.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
@GodsGrace I just reread the post you are talking about.
What I meant about people seeing what they want to see. I did not see him say we could live in sin and still be saved, I do not know how you could get that from what he said.
I did see him say people who do certain things are not walking with God. which I disagree with
But I did not see him say we could live in sin, and still be saved
PINSEEKER,
Let me make this perfectly clear to you....
I can refute anything you send my way,
and this is why:
The NT contains TRUTH.
TRUTH cannot conflict with itself ...
and thus ANY verse or verses you post could be explained very easily....
Calvinism was INVENTED in 1,500AD.
That means that either EVERY THEOLOGIAN before that was dumb,
OR
Calvinism is WRONG.
Now you smirk and smile and giggle and I find it very difficult to deal with that.
I'm rather serious about my faith and if you aren't then I'll not be able to converse with you.
This DOES NOT MEAN that I can't refute your INCORRECT BELIEF SYSTEM.
Here's the truth in case you missed it:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
I'll be standing in front of God blameless:
1 Thessalonians 3:
12and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;
13so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
Those that are NOT children of God will not be seeing heaven...
Revelation 21:27
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Well, what exactly does it mean TO BELIEVE?
Does it mean with your mind?
Like the demons?
Or do you think it means something more?
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
The demons believe in Jesus.
Are they saved?
NO.
If you believe in Jesus you will trust Him.
If you trust Him you will follow His teachings.
His teachings MUST be obeyed or you will not be a disciple of His.
2 Corinthians 5:17
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Are you not a new creature?
Here's what Paul said:
Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
and
Romans 13:13-14
13Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
14But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.
Can't be both.
You're eithe a SINNER
or
You're a CHILD OF GOD.
Make up your mind.
So now you're a child of God?
This is confusion EG.
I'm replying to what you post.
You admit that you're a sinner.
Have you read 1 John?
What's the difference between sinning and being a sinner?
Never said that.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Really? So the NT is wrong and persons cannot be forgiven of sin?
That is not legalism.....
That is INCORRECT teaching of what God wants us to know.
The other member plainly said that for years Christians watched whatever program on TV and were STILL saved.
HE stated the program was sinful, not me.
So IOW, we can do whatever we want to do and still be saved.
You deny there are persons like this - just as you said when I first started to post to you.
Now I've proven that there are and you still deny it.
What happened to you not responding to me anymore, GodsGrace?
Woodenly speaking, yes, but not with any validity or credibility.
Yes, and so does the OT, which is why I presented you with various passages over and over and over again that your statements and assertions clearly contradicted or conflicted with in irresolvable ways. And then, when presented with the opportunity to resolve those irresolvable assertions, there was silence... except for, "Oh, you're just babbling, and I don't respond to babbling." But thank you for testifying as to the truth of Scripture, that, in the words of Paul, "(a)ll Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." Thank you for that, GodsGrace.
But assertions can conflict with truth, and assertions even with other assertions.
'Easily' and 'validly'/'credibly' are two very different concepts, GodsGrace. So yes, you tried to fit them with your narrative, but unsuccessfully. And to that point, we should strive to fit our "narrative" with Scripture, not the other way around.
Well no, John Calvin was not even born until 1509. But even so, John Calvin himself credits Augustine with having championed his understanding of Scripture (Calvin quoted Augustine once in every four pages of his two-volume Institutes of the Christian Religion, and even stated, "Augustine is so much at one with me that, if I wished to write a confession of my faith, it would abundantly satisfy me to quote wholesale from his writings." Augustine, GodsGrace, lived from 354 A.D to 430. So no, the line of Christian thought propagated by John Calvin was "invented" ~ a poor word choice; rather, goes back at least about 1100 years prior to John Calvin's birth. Now, certainly you can continue to say what you're saying, but every time you do... <smile>
Nothing, because the assertion itself is... well, dumb (sorry), an idiotic revision of history itself.
That's... not my problem... <smile>
That makes two of us.
Again, anyone can ~ woodenly speaking ~ refute anything, but can certainly still do so without validity or credibility. And in the conversation... well, exchange, at least... we have had, in your case, such has... repeatedly <smile>... proven true,
Grace and peace to you, GodsGrace.
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See....you're babbling again.
How about some scripture?
How about you stick to scripture without your laughing and ridiculing and giggling?
If you're up for it, so am I.
Let's start where Calvinism starts (or reformed theology as some prefer).
What verses point to the fact that man has no free will?
No free will is required because, due to total depravity man cannot turn to God....
so since God has to make the choice of whom to save, there can be no condition - only what God deems applicable, but which we cannot now.
Limited Atonement....so radical even some Calvinists cannot agree with it.
God chooses, so we MUST accept grace, which makes grace irrisistable.
Again, no free will.
And, after having done all that choosing, of course God will keep Calvinists saved until the end...even though the NT is chock full of verses that state salvation can be forfieted.
It IS difficult to discuss with calvinists because one concept will always run into the next.
That's why it's necessary to keep to the topic and not babble too much.
Besides which, a person's opinion is not important,
only what the bible teaches.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree, but lets finish what Paul said and not just cut him short
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Notice,
1. he did not say they stopped these sins (as we read on. many of them still struggled with some of these sins)
2. He did not tell them they had to stop these sins,
3. He told them the truth - They were washed, Their sins were washed away, They were sanctified, They were set apart and no longer are related or in the same category of these people, and they were justified, They were found innocent, even though they were guilty, they were redeemed, which means it is if they did not do any of these things.
Paul does not even stop here. he continues to support what I just said.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any
See, he states a fact for those who are under grace and not under law.
1. All things are lawful. I cannot be condemned for doing anything, I am no longer under the law I am under grace. so when I do sin (and I will) I cannot be condemned by that sin (although I will suffer for that sin, which is his second point
2. Not everything is profitable. Just because I have religious freedom to do whatever I want, and can not be judged for that, does not mean I will gain from it. Sin has consequences, and anyone born of God understands this. Not only do they suffer because they are new creatures, and sin is like eating poison, But we are chastened by God. which is painful which leads to the third point
3. Even though I lawfully can do anything, I will not be brought under subjection to anything. Just because I can go get drunk and not be condemned for it, does nto mean I should be stupid enough to take advantage of Gods grace and go get drunk all the time. 1. It will destroy my life, 2 it may destroy my family, 3, It may destroy my Job, 4. If I get addicted, now it runs my life and I am subjected to it.
but in no case, can I be condemned for these things,,
They are not me, They were me, because they were who I was. but now I am a new creature in christ.
this is what @Behold tried to share with you. although not so deeply. and you claimed he said we can LIVE IN SIN and still go to heaven.
I think we may have different ideas of what it means to live in sin. A child of God can not LIVE in sin, because they have been born of God.
why do you not believe this? Did John lie?
So will I,
but it does not mean I was sinless.
again, learn the difference.
agreed, 100%
Agree 100 %, those who sin have never seen or known God. those who are born of God can not live in sin, because they have been born of God.
You believe the one, why do you struggle with the other?
In the greek, it means to have an assurance, to have a trust. It does not mean we just have a mental agreement, There is a huge difference between having a trust in someone, and just believing them. I can believe something, yet not have any faith in them at all, and it will be shown that by the fact I never do what they ask, I resist them, and I may talk good about them, but I do not really trust them
. on the other hand, if I have true faith in them, I will tend to do what they say because I do trust them, I will praise them, I will point other people to them, I will do things which show I really do trust them, it is not just I am trying to be part of a group but do not really trust the group I am in.
The believe there is one God. they did nto believe in Jesus, if they did, they would not have followed Satan.
Maybe, maybe not.
See, you did it again
You said if you trust him YOU WILL follow his teachings
then you said YOU MUST.
why would you say you MUST, if you WILL.
I agree with you, if you trust Jesus you WILL do what he says
so I do not have to put people under law and say you must, there is no doubt they will do what he says.
it they are not doing what he says, if they are hearers only and not doers. I will say the truth, I see no evidence of your faith. And I will suggest like James for them to test their faith. and not just claim they have it, Show me your faith by your works. as I will show you mine
You have been discussing with me for how long now? I have stated this to you quite a few times, and said this is WHY I can not continue in sin and why I am secure in christ. and you ask me again? I am offended that you have not heard me..
Oh I agree
But John said I can not live in sin, because I have been born if God.
I should not think it is ok to continue with the struggles I have, I should seek to try to overcome them, and not be content, as Paul said
But I can not live in sin, nor do I want to. I never want to go back, Because I know where I came from.
This is a misapplication and misunderstanding
Unless you have no sin (as some say they do) you are still according to the law a sinner
If your a child of God. You are no longer guilty or condemned, But it does not mean you no longer sin.
How is it still confusing?
I am a child of God. when God looks at me he does not see my sin, he sees his sons righteousness
But according to Gods law. I am still a sinner, I am not yet glorified. so I should not boast and think I have arrived, I need to be humble and confess I still have issues, I still need to walk. I still need to grow.
how is this a bad thing?
have to cut this, to long
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am,
arn't you? You never sin?
A habitual sinner (he who sins according to John) lives in sin, every thought and every attention is sin, It is how those who do not believe in Christ live, because every thought and emotion is about self
as a Child of God, I do not live in sin, But I still sin, I will not be perfect until I get to heaven, and I will not tell myself I am no longer a sinner who is perfect. because when I do that I have stopped and hindered my ability to grow.
One thing I have noticed, the more I grow. the more of a sinful I find out I really am, because things I never would have though was in a few years ago. I see as selfish self serving attitude that I just did not give a second thought to..
I believe Paul saw this i himself. as he showed in Romans 7. and when he called himself chief of all sinners.
Your the one who says you are no longer a sinner, I am just using your words.. And asking a question. so you can understand what people hear you say
I do not understadn your question, or why you would think I thought this
Well if you think so thats fine, But I disagree. I grew up in that church, and that form of legalism is dangerous.
lol. Ok
Well paul said this also..as I just showed you..
No.
You said he said we can live in sin, He did nto say this
He spoke of one sin, watching a tv show. That is not living in sin.
I pray you learn what living in sin really means, A child of God cannot live in sin. thats why we see things different, thats why you see him as saying we can live in sin and be saved and I do not.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I did
You see living in sin different than I see living in sin.
Thats why we can not see the same.
LOL! Okay, so, by your own definition, you are too, then... Wow.
Oh, you mean as I've done so extensively (and repetitively) previous to now? <smile> I'll just stand by what I have said (quoting over and over again from various parts of the Old and New Testaments alike)... But now we're just talking about refuting things, which is kind of silly, really...
Oh, well, does that mean starting with your misperceptions of it? Or the actual real thing?
Well, to that question, what parts of Calvinism point to man not having free will? :) The answer to that ~ as well as the answer to your question here, is, "None."
And this is what I've told you over and over again, GodsGrace, that total depravity really has nothing directly to with the will. However, you might take a look at what Paul says in Romans 6 again, that any one man, at any time in his life, is either a slave to unrighteousness or a slave to righteousness; there is no "middle ground" or "neutral." The proper (valid, credible) way of restating what you have said here is, "Due to total depravity (which is the state of the natural man's heart, the "heart of stone," as God puts it in Ezekiel 11 and 36), he will not use his free will as he should and turn to God, but rather will always ~ of his own free will ~ do the opposite.
One misstatement follows another... No, since the natural man will always, because of this depraved, sinful nature, use his free will poorly and choose the wrong, God places no conditions of man on His election unto salvation, because man is unable to meet any condition of God, much less to "be perfect as (He) is perfect." God's election has to be unconditional for two reasons, if there were any condition, no one would be saved, and God's grace, if man were to meet any condition, would not be grace at all, but somehow merited by man.
Interesting that you make no attempt to define it... Christ's atonement can be understood as unlimited in one sense, and limited in another, different sense. His atonement for sin was and is indeed sufficient to accomplish the redemption and salvation of all, so in this sense is unlimited. But not all will be called by God and thus born again of the Spirit, only according to His purpose of election, so only His elect; therefore, Christ's atonement is limited in the sense that it was and is effectual only for God's elect.
Well, at least an attempt this time, but another clumsy way to... well, mischaracterize the concept in question... God's grace of salvation, of the second birth by the Spirit, is given by grace certainly of God's volition, even before the foundation of the world, as Paul says in Ephesians 1, according to His purpose of election, before anyone has done anything either good or bad, as Paul says in Romans 9, If and when this is effected in the person, his or her heart is changed from stone to flesh, he or she is given a new spirit, and God puts His Spirit into the person, giving him or her a new nature. And because of this new heart, this new nature, he or she then can and will, in and of himself or herself, because he or she is this "new creation" (2 Corinthians 5), of his or her own free will choose the right. After having the "eyes of the heart" opened, he or she will not fail to do so.
Rubbish.
LOL! <eyeroll>
Quite the opposite, as previously demonstrated, but nowhere clearer than:
- Romans 8, where Paul says, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:1-2) and "in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:37-39).
- Philippians 1, where he says, "He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
- 1 Peter 1, where Peter says, "God... has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5).
Now that's true; I agree. As J.I. Packer so eloquently put it in his introductory essay of John Owen's great work, Death of Death in the Death of Christ:
"...the very act of setting out Calvinistic soteriology in the form of five distinct points (a number due, as we saw, merely to the fact that there were five Arminian points for the Synod of Dort to answer) tends to obscure the organic character of Calvinistic thought on this subject. For the five points, though separately stated, are really inseparable. They hang together; you cannot reject one without rejecting them all..."
And he goes on to say (probably babbling, in your opinion <smile>):
"For to Calvinism there is really only one point to be made in the field of soteriology: the point that God saves sinners. God—the Triune Jehovah, Father, Son and Spirit; three Persons working together in sovereign wisdom, power and love to achieve the salvation of a chosen people, the Father electing, the Son fulfilling the Father’s will by redeeming, the Spirit executing the purpose of Father and Son by renewing. Saves—does everything, first to last, that is involved in bringing man from death in sin to life in glory: plans, achieves and communicates redemption, calls and keeps, justifies, sanctifies, glorifies. Sinners—men as God finds them, guilty, vile, helpless, powerless, unable to lift a finger to do God’s will or better their spiritual lot. God saves sinners—and the force of this confession may not be weakened by disrupting the unity of the work of the Trinity, or by dividing the achievement of salvation between God and man and making the decisive part man’s own, or by soft-pedaling the sinner’s inability so as to allow him to share the praise of his salvation with his Saviour. This is the one point of Calvinistic soteriology which the “five points” are concerned to establish and Arminianism in all its forms to deny: namely, that sinners do not save themselves in any sense at all, but that salvation, first and last, whole and entire, past, present and future, is of the Lord, to Whom be glory for ever; amen."
But anyone's doing so or not in the opinion of another is just that, a matter of opinion. <smile>
Ah, another thing we disagree on. I would certainly say both are important, but the latter far more than the first. <smile>
Grace and peace to you, GodsGrace.
I give up Pin Seeker.
Please don't post to me anymore.
You're a waste of time and I will not reply to you.
I tried again....but you just can't be serious.
You THINK you have free will?
That's compatibilist free will
WHICH IS NO FREE WILL.
Learn PS....
You're all mixed up as most calvinists are.
Good call.
I'll respect your wishes, GodsGrace, but if I feel compelled to respond to anything you say, I will do so. I... you know... have... free will... <smile>
Ah. Well. <smile>
As I have said, suit yourself.
Well, okay. You know, I haven't said this before, but I used to think about these things pretty much precisely as you do. But, thanks be to God, I came to realize just how amazing God's grace actually is. And that's... kind of why I think your moniker... well, your use of it, anyway... is... Well, I mean it's great, but to use it and then really kind of short-change it is... an interesting juxtaposition, I guess.
Oh, well... yes, I can, and I have been and am very serious. I would say to you, GodsGrace, that my <smiles> and <chuckles> are not meant to be flippant or conveying of whimsicalness or lack of seriousness.
LOL! I was poking a bit of fun at you, GG. Yes. We all do. <smile>
Hmmm, well, God's complete sovereignty over His creation is not restrictive or coercive in any way regarding of our free will. As I have said, GG, the issue is not free will, or whether we have it or not. Salvation is a matter of the heart, which, as you should know, "is deceitful above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9). The issue is really one of autonomy, which I'll elaborate upon here...
The two concepts of human freedom and divine sovereignty are not inherently contradictory. There may be an abundance of mystery on how the two interact and relate, but they are not inherently contradictory.
If God is sovereign (He most certainly is), then manifestly no creature (we included) can be autonomous because to be autonomous is to be a law unto oneself, and to be a law unto oneself precludes the possibility of anything or anyone reigning sovereignly over him/her. These are the two concepts that cannot coexist. If God is sovereign, we are manifestly not autonomous. On the other hand, if we are autonomous, then that's the end of any idea of a sovereign God.
We are not autonomous. We are not self-existing. Only God ~ the Creator and our King, Who is from everlasting to everlasting ~ is.
<smile> Think of it in these ways, GodsGrace:
Regarding the writing of God's Word: The men who wrote it certainly spoke/wrote in and of themselves, but the Holy Spirit superintended the writing of Scripture ~ all Scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3) ~ so much so that it is God's Word and not man's. The point is, the writers, from Moses (Genesis) all the way through to John (Revelation), wrote out of their own thoughts and actions (writing instrument to scroll)... of their own free thought and will, as it were, but at the same time, the Holy Spirit was fully superintendent of that. And I would add this, that the Holy Spirit's work was not done then, but has ~ through the work of translators and theologians through the centuries ~ maintained the integrity and even infallibility of God's Word.
Regarding evangelism: A hearer's conversion to Christ is not dependent on our powers of persuasion or manner of presentation or saying "just the right thing." It is dependent upon the Holy Spirit, Who uses what we say and works faith (God's assurance; conviction by the Holy Spirit) ~ or not; it's according to God's will ~ in the heart of the hearer upon his or her hearing (faith comes by hearing, Romans 10)... or perhaps after the passage of some time, as the person may not immediately believe what he or she has heard, but after thinking about it comes to belief). In any case, the decision is one's own. This is actually very freeing to the evangelist, because he then knows that God's bringing someone from death in sin to life in Christ is not incumbent upon him "make it happen," which of course is impossible for man to do. Again, man's free will is not encroached upon in any way by anything or anyone but remains fully intact.
Regarding Christian good works: Certainly, even though we are commanded to do so, we decide of our own free will to serve God and how to do so. As Paul says, God, in giving us this new birth by and of His Spirit, creates us for good works ~ we are His workmanship ~ that we might walk in them (Ephesians 2). And we do so because we are walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5).
In all these things ~ and very similarly in this discussion ~ man's will is absolutely his own, perfectly intact, and free. A question that might fairly be asked is, "Do we pray to God that He would save folks?" The answer should be yes, of course; we are commanded in Scripture to do so. But then that begs the question, "If, as some say, it depends upon man's will, then why? Why would we pray to God about something that He has no control or even influence over?"
No, you're mistaken, both as to what Calvinists believe and in your Arminian beliefs. But, it's okay. You're not "less Christian" or "less saved" or inferior in any way to any other Christian. Your personally disparaging remarks are a bit troubling, not because I'm offended, but just because... well, I think Christians shouldn't try to tear down other Christians. But, so it goes...
Thanks be to God.
Ohhh... probably too long, probably "babbling" to you, huh? Well... <chuckles>
Grace and peace to you.
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I would only add, except some of Paul's documented thoughts. They were man's (Paul's) words, not the Lord's.
1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
Yet for some reason, the Holy Spirit kept it as part of His inspired Word.
Grace and peace to you.
Please point out in these verses where you believe God is lying?
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
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