When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you saying the resurrection which takes place when the abomination of desolation took place in 70 ad or that resurection has not taken place yet?


According to Jesus ,when the abomination of desolation is placed,it will be a time of great tribulation unlike there has ever been .


Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
According to Daniel ,at the time of that tribulation,many who sleep I the dust of the earth awake.


According to Daniel ,many who sleep in the dust of the earth awake at that time of tribulation.


Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame

Matthew 24:21 and Daniel 12:1 have different contexts. Matthew 24:21 is clearly about local tribulation in Judea and Jerusalem. Daniel 12:1-2, however, involves global tribulation because its timing is related to the resurrection of the dead which we know will occur at the second coming of Christ. So, the similar wording of the verses alone does not make them about the same event. The local destruction that occurred in 70 AD was the complete destruction of Jerusalem and its temple buildings and an event like that never happened before or since. Likewise, the wrath that will come down on the day Christ returns and the dead are resurrected, will be unprecedented as well. While God has used fire to destroy cities in the past (Sodom and Gomorrah, obviously), He has never used it to destroy the entire earth like He will when Jesus returns (2 Peter 3:10-12).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then the abomination of causes desolation was not placed in 70.AD.

You are failing to see how Luke explained what Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-20 are about. We should look at all 3 Olivet Discourse accounts for the full understanding of the Olivet Discourse. Most people only look at Matthew 24 (Matt 25 is also part of it and that often gets ignored, too), but we should look at Mark 13 and Luke 21 as well.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Since Luke's audience was Gentiles and they would not have had any knowledge of Daniel's prophecies, he spelled it out for them what the abomination of desolation was about.

So, instead of saying "when ye shall see the abomination of desolation" spoken about by Daniel and saying to let the reader understand like Matthew and Mark did, Luke said "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh". So, Luke related armies surrounding Jerusalem that would cause the desolation of Jerusalem with the abomination of desolation. And historical records show that the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem around 70 AD and proceeded to destroy it along with its temple buildings, just as Jesus said would happen (Luke 19:41-44, Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:5-6).

Luke indicated that there would be a time period called "the times of the Gentiles" between the abomination of the desolation of Jerusalem and the second coming of Christ (Luke 21:24).

 

[tailgator]

Jesus was quoting Daniel when speaking of the great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.
He nearly quoted him word for word.

Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time:"

Daniel.12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.



Make no mistake,
This is the same time period spoken of By Jesus and Daniel.

 

[strepho]

The wailing wall, and other remnants are still in Jerusalem. General Titus didn't completely destroy all of it in 70 ad.

Matthew chapter 24

Jesus told it would be thrown down. This will happen at the 7th trump.
Jesus will turn the current temple, and other remnants of walls to dust on 7th trump.

Second thessalonians chapter 2

Son of perdition is satan. He comes 6th trump to Jerusalem in his role as antichrist. He will pollute the temple. Antichrist is the abomination of desolation of Matthew chapter 24.

Revelation chapter 11:1

The Reed is Rod, for measuring of destruction. At the 7th trump, Jesus will obliterate the current temple.

Ezekiel chapter 40:48

Jesus will establish new Temple. During millennium, the spirituality dead will be taught during millennium by priests.

The millennium temple is temporary.

This isn't complicated.

Some people have spirit of stupor and wont understand deep truth of God's word.

Hebrews chapter 5.

After 20 years. The congregation should be teachers of God's word.

No excuse to be biblically illiterate.

Unless you have spirit of stupor.

1 Corinthians chapter 2

You also need holy spirit to guide you, and help understand God's word.

I won't debate about it.

I documented it, and explained it .

It's easy to misinterpret the bible.

Someone goes to seminary and thinks their teacher. Thier biblically illiterate.

You must be trained by pastor and have holy spirit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus was quoting Daniel when speaking of the great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.
He nearly quoted him word for word.

Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time:"

Daniel.12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.



Make no mistake,
This is the same time period spoken of By Jesus and Daniel.

You won't address the challenges being made to this. Would you agree that Daniel 12:1-2 is talking about a global event? If so, does Matthew 24:15-21 look like a description of a global event to you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The wailing wall, and other remnants are still in Jerusalem. General Titus didn't completely destroy all of it in 70 ad.

Jesus said everything within the walls including the temple buildings would be destroyed, not the walls themselves.

Luke 19: As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

This is exactly what happened in 70 AD. Jesus spoke about this AND His future coming at the end of the age in the Olivet Discourse. Both futurists and preterists make the mistake of thinking He didn't talk about both in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Yet, both will acknowledge that He talked about both in Luke 21. Why would only the Luke 21 account of the Olivet Discourse record how Jesus answered both questions and what Jesus said about both events, but not Matthew 24 and Mark 13? That makes no sense.

Matthew chapter 24

Jesus told it would be thrown down. This will happen at the 7th trump.
Jesus will turn the current temple, and other remnants of walls to dust on 7th trump.

Second thessalonians chapter 2

Son of perdition is satan. He comes 6th trump to Jerusalem in his role as antichrist. He will pollute the temple. Antichrist is the abomination of desolation of Matthew chapter 24.

Revelation chapter 11:1

The Reed is Rod, for measuring of destruction. At the 7th trump, Jesus will obliterate the current temple.

Ezekiel chapter 40:48

Jesus will establish new Temple. During millennium, the spirituality dead will be taught during millennium by priests.

The millennium temple is temporary.

This isn't complicated.

Some people have spirit of stupor and wont understand deep truth of God's word.

Hebrews chapter 5.

After 20 years. The congregation should be teachers of God's word.

No excuse to be biblically illiterate.

Unless you have spirit of stupor.

1 Corinthians chapter 2

You also need holy spirit to guide you, and help understand God's word.

I won't debate about it.

I documented it, and explained it .

It's easy to misinterpret the bible.

Someone goes to seminary and thinks their teacher. Thier biblically illiterate.

You must be trained by pastor and have holy spirit.

This is not true. Show me scripture which says we have to be trained by a pastor. You can't do it. But, there is scripture which says we need discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16).

 

[ScottA]

So the common mistake here is to think that the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of the Temple is yet future, and has anything to do with the second coming of Christ and the end of the world almost 2 thousand years later.
But when you understand the questions asked of Jesus was in two parts, then hopefully you will see these 2 events are separate from one another and are many, many years apart. Also the time line concerning "when" the AOD was fulfilled has nothing to do with the timeline 70 week prophecy in Daniel.

The end of the 70 week prophecy, and the fulfilling of the AOD prophecy are about 40 years apart from one another.
And it is also very clear in all accounts given in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that Jesus and the apostles were talking about the Temple and surrounding buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes".

There is no need for a future Temple to be built to fulfill this AOD prophecy, as it has already been fulfilled in 70 a.d. when the Roman army surrounded, and then destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. Both the words of Jesus and history prove this to be true. With the abomination of desolation events already being fulfilled, we can now focus on the events leading up to Christ's second coming, and on the signs concerning the end of this world.

As it is written, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." This is the abomination that makes desolation. After which came death, and every abomination laid upon Christ. Which is also the great tribulation, for there can be no greater tribulation than was upon Christ, because it was all tribulation.

As for your idea of forty years between--this is correct. But is to be spiritually understood according to the scriptural theme of "forty." Which was defined in Egypt as "a lifetime"...before entering into the promise.

As for Daniel's prophecy, it was and is a repeat of the parable of the seven days of creation. Before it sprang forth, He told us of it, as spoke Isaiah.

 

[Truth7t7]

Since you see the temple being destroyed representing the death of Christ, I have a question for you. No debate, I just want to see what you might think about this …

In Matthew 9:6 Jesus says he has the power to forgive sins, and this takes place prior to the cross. I’m thinking that if you place His death as symbolic of the destruction of the temple, then His healing ministry could be symbolic of the daily sacrifice being taken away.

What do you think?

Your trying to validate reformed preterist 70AD fulfillment "Wrong"

Will There Be A Future Temple Rebuilt In Jerusalem, Scripture Suggest There Will Be?​

Isaiah 66:1-4 strongly suggest a rebuilt house/temple dedicated to God by the Jews, with renewed animal sacrifice, this will be an "Abomonation" to the Lord and the cross of Calvary, God will send them a strong delusion

Point Of Interest: The word "Delusion" is used 2 times in the KJV, and they are both associated with a house/temple, and it appears that the scripture presented could be "Parallel Readings" of the same event?

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV

1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11KJV

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Timtofly]

They will not leave one stone on another,

So if you leave the foundation then a new temple can be built. How is your point made that all would be destroyed, even the foundation?

The Wailing Wall is not just a simple wall. If the Wailing Wall is removed, the Temple at that time would not have a foundation, on that side. Jesus was not talking about a single building while the rest of what Herod built, would be left standing. The "within your walls part" was within Jerusalem. The Wailing Wall is not outside of the walls of Jerusalem.

"And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,"

Jesus was talking about everything in Jerusalem would be removed including the foundations which is implied by:

"they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another."

No one is talking about the walls of Jerusalem, even though most of them were leveled as well.

Do you not think a foundation is included in "one stone left on the other"?

 

[grafted branch]

Your trying to validate reformed preterist 70AD fulfillment "Wrong"

I wasn’t trying to validate anything, I don’t think the temple being destroyed symbolically represents the Lord’s death and resurrection, and I wasn’t trying to argue against that. I was just trying to figure out what you’re doing with Jesus being able to forgive sins prior to His “temple being destroyed”.

I would think that forgiving of sins should symbolically represent the daily sacrifice being taken away, but if you don’t have an answer for that then that’s fine.

Isaiah 66:1-4 strongly suggest a rebuilt house/temple dedicated to God by the Jews, with renewed animal sacrifice, this will be an "Abomonation" to the Lord and the cross of Calvary, God will send them a strong delusion

Wasn’t Isaiah 66:1-4 fulfilled and true when the sacrifices resumed after the veil was torn? Or would you say those sacrifices made up until 70AD remained legitimate?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes the abomination that causes desolation is what causes the great tribulation .

No,

It is the sign that when you see it, you need to run, because it will be followed by so great tribulation, such as has never been seen before. so severe in fact. if Christ does nto return. no flesh will survive..

According to Daniel,the resurrection of Daniels people takes place at that time

Nope

That is the word of God.Not my word.

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

Yes, at the end of this period. when christ returns, he will gather the elect from the 4 corners of the world.

You need to study more my friend..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then the abomination of causes desolation was not placed in 70.AD.

It was not

The tribulation which begins in Daniel 11:33 takes place after the man of sin gives Israel his armed forces.That is 3.5 years before the time of he end in Daniel 11:40.

The great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is in Daniel 12:1.
Jesus was quoting Daniel when he spoke of the great tribulation caused by the abomination.of desolation .

Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.



" there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time:"


Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And it has not happened yet..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The wailing wall, and other remnants are still in Jerusalem. General Titus didn't completely destroy all of it in 70 ad.

Matthew chapter 24

Jesus told it would be thrown down. This will happen at the 7th trump.
Jesus will turn the current temple, and other remnants of walls to dust on 7th trump.

Second thessalonians chapter 2

Son of perdition is satan. He comes 6th trump to Jerusalem in his role as antichrist. He will pollute the temple. Antichrist is the abomination of desolation of Matthew chapter 24.

Revelation chapter 11:1

The Reed is Rod, for measuring of destruction. At the 7th trump, Jesus will obliterate the current temple.

Ezekiel chapter 40:48

Jesus will establish new Temple. During millennium, the spirituality dead will be taught during millennium by priests.

The millennium temple is temporary.

This isn't complicated.

Some people have spirit of stupor and wont understand deep truth of God's word.

Hebrews chapter 5.

After 20 years. The congregation should be teachers of God's word.

No excuse to be biblically illiterate.

Unless you have spirit of stupor.

1 Corinthians chapter 2

You also need holy spirit to guide you, and help understand God's word.

I won't debate about it.

I documented it, and explained it .

It's easy to misinterpret the bible.

Someone goes to seminary and thinks their teacher. Thier biblically illiterate.

You must be trained by pastor and have holy spirit.

the wailing wall is the wall of the old fortress antonia.

Josephus and other historians visited jerusalem after Rome destroyed it, and said nothing was left standing except for the old roman fortress.

You could not even tall a city had ever existed there.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So if you leave the foundation then a new temple can be built. How is your point made that all would be destroyed, even the foundation?

The Wailing Wall is not just a simple wall. If the Wailing Wall is removed, the Temple at that time would not have a foundation, on that side. Jesus was not talking about a single building while the rest of what Herod built, would be left standing. The "within your walls part" was within Jerusalem. The Wailing Wall is not outside of the walls of Jerusalem.

"And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,"

Jesus was talking about everything in Jerusalem would be removed including the foundations which is implied by:

"they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another."

No one is talking about the walls of Jerusalem, even though most of them were leveled as well.

Do you not think a foundation is included in "one stone left on the other"?

the wailing wall is part of the old fort. which stood ABOVE the temple. The roman solders had to go down to the temple from this wall to rescue paul when a mob tried to kill Paul.

The actual temple sige is south of that wall. That is where the foundation would be.. they actually have (are) excavating this area. and have found things that could only be part of solomans temple. and the plot David purchased..

 

[tailgator]

No,

It is the sign that when you see it, you need to run, because it will be followed by so great tribulation, such as has never been seen before. so severe in fact. if Christ does nto return. no flesh will survive..

Nope

Yes, at the end of this period. when christ returns, he will gather the elect from the 4 corners of the world.

You need to study more my friend..

The abomination that causes desolation causes great tribulation.
You need to study the history of Hiroshima when the abomination of desolation was placed there.

If God does not shorten the days,no flesh will be saved.

 

[tailgator]

It was not

And it has not happened yet..

That's what I just said

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No,

It is the sign that when you see it, you need to run, because it will be followed by so great tribulation, such as has never been seen before. so severe in fact. if Christ does nto return. no flesh will survive..

How could he or any of us see it? Jesus only mentioned that those in Judea would need to flee to the mountains if they see it. Are you in Judea?

 

[Davy]

BEWARE BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

What the original poster is pushing is a seminary doctrine of men called Preterism (preter = what is past).

Men's doctrines of Preterism tries... to push most of Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS back in history to the day of His Apostles, mainly just because Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and it happened by the Roman army in 70 A.D.

The reality is that Preterism is a very 'loose' speculative method, making many assumptions not based on the actual Bible Scriptures.

For example, in the Book of Daniel, the event of the "abomination of desolation" (AOD) is prophesied to occur at the very FINAL "one week", the 70th week of the Daniel 9 prophecy. That final symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27 has never been fulfilled to this day, and is where is Biblically derived the prophecy in Revelation about the time of 'tribulation' being for the latter 1260 days that God's "two witnesses" prophecy in JERUSALEM for, at the end of this world.

I was raised in a Christian Church that hung on man's doctrines of Preterism. They gave a summary teaching of Old Testament history, NO PROPHECY except Christ's future coming. So if you grew up in that kind of Church, you'd constantly hear how even most of the Book of Revelation is already past history! Do good works in Christ and be ready for His future coming, that's about it if you're a Christian in that kind of Church.

They spend more time fighting against... unfulfilled Bible prophecy than actually recognizing the very SIGNS and WARNINGS Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave the Church leading up to Christ's future return!

They won't be ready for the events at the END, because they heed some seminary doctrines of men that go against Christ's SIGNS for the END that His are to be 'watching'. Thus they deserve... to be deceived by the coming false-Messiah that is going to appear in JERUSALEM working miracles that will deceive the whole world into believing he is GOD (Revelation 13:4-8; Revelation 13:11-14; 2 Thess.2; Matthew 24:23-26).

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

That final symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27 has never been fulfilled to this day, and is where is Biblically derived the prophecy in Revelation about the time of 'tribulation' being for the latter 1260 days that God's "two witnesses" prophecy in JERUSALEM for, at the end of this world.

I was raised in a Christian Church that hung on man's doctrines of Preterism. They gave a summary teaching of Old Testament history, NO PROPHECY except Christ's future coming. So if you grew up in that kind of Church, you'd constantly hear how even most of the Book of Revelation is already past history! Do good works in Christ and be ready for His future coming, that's about it if you're a Christian in that kind of Church.

They spend more time fighting against... unfulfilled Bible prophecy than actually recognizing the very SIGNS and WARNINGS Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave the Church leading up to Christ's future return!

They won't be ready for the events at the END, because they heed some seminary doctrines of men that go against Christ's SIGNS for the END that His are to be 'watching'. Thus they deserve... to be deceived by the coming false-Messiah that is going to appear in JERUSALEM working miracles that will deceive the whole world into believing he is GOD (Revelation 13:4-8; Revelation 13:11-14; 2 Thess.2; Matthew 24:23-26).

Yikes! Jesus was crucified in “the middle” of that last week. That “unfulfilled week” doctrine is the false doctrines of carnally minded men.

 

[Davy]

Yikes! Jesus was crucified in “the middle” of that last week. That “unfulfilled week” doctrine is the false doctrines of carnally minded men.

Jesus was "cut off" (crucified) at the very end... of the 69th week of the Daniel 9 prophecy. The "one week" of Daniel 9:27 WAS NOT PART OF CHRIST'S MINISTRY, SHEESH!