OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

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Dan Clarkston

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All I have done is post scripture.

Therein lies the problem... lots of folks have been indoctrinated to only accept
a handful of scripture passages and then throw the rest of the Bible in the trash.

Most folks that go to church treat the pastor like they do the doctor or the lawyer
and believe that they are trained professionals who only speak truth and how dare
anyone question what they say! I know people who think this and they believe
whatever their pastor says without studying God's Word like the bereans

In Christianity that's a recipe for deception seeing that Jesus warns us in Mt 24
that in the end times many will come in His Name and will deceive many.

Clearly in the end times we are living, deception is the greatest danger mankind faces.


Do you believe what Jesus said here?

They cannot believe what Jesus said because if they did that they would be admitting they have been believing wrong.

So, they must somehow explain away what Jesus said or otherwise claim Jesus is not speaking to Christians.
 

JLB

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So, they must somehow explain away what Jesus said or otherwise claim Jesus is not speaking to Christians.

Unfortunately you are correct.


His Spirit is given to us to empower us to walk according to the Spirit rather than walking according to the sinful desires of our flesh.




JLB
 

face2face

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John 1:1, 14: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

This passage emphasizes Jesus' divinity ("the Word was God") and humanity ("the Word became flesh").
He had the mind (Logos, reason etc) of His Father and the nature of his mother
Philippians 2:6-8: "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!"
I see what you have done there Johann - rather cunning of you! Christ had the outward appearance i.e likeness of God which is why its translated correctly as form. Notice how you force duality into thes verses, but nowhere are we told Christ had two natures!

How does light and darkness dwell together? How can a person be both divine and flesh nature?

You know why this doctrine was designed! It began 3 centuries after the True understanding of Christ's nature was held and then by the 5th Century it was well established in main stream theology until today where people like you still teach it.

I'm interested in the Original Gospel Johann and not the teachings of men.

The use of morphḗ and schḗma implies that an appearance is made in a visible form and fashion...trying to force substance is a waste of both our time.
Paul underscores Jesus' pre-existence in divine form and His incarnation in human likeness.
Colossians 2:9: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form."

Who placed that fullness in the glorified Christ?

This verse encapsulates the completeness of Jesus' deity within His human body.
Hebrews 1:3: "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."

1:4 Thus he became so far better than the angels as he has inherited a name superior to theirs. Heb 1:4.

The above text point is moot if he was as you say God.

Your issue is found in your inability to understand the difference between the Son of Man and the glorified Son of God. It's as though you want to bring them together into one nature.

Provide a passage in the Scripture that speaks to eternal divine nature dwelling simultaneous with sins flesh.

We both know you can't, so the conclusion is clear for all to see.

The author of Hebrews highlights Jesus' divine nature as the exact imprint of God's being and His role in sustaining the universe.
But not the original source.
Hebrews 2:14-17: "Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. For this reason, he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."

This passage affirms Jesus' complete humanity and His identification with human beings.

Boy Johann your reading of the text is terrible.

You have a passage above showing you Christ was 100% human in nature, not 50% human and 50% divine! Further to this we are told in Romans 8:1-3 God condemned Sin in the Nature of His Son.

Romans 1:3-4: "Concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord."

Yes, David after the Flesh which is the Gospel - Second Adam with inherited condemned nature held under deaths dominion and for good reason otherwise God has no victory!

Paul speaks of Jesus' human lineage (descended from David) and His divine sonship (declared to be the Son of God).
1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
God is not a mediator between God and Man!
This verse refers to Jesus as the mediator, emphasizing both His humanity ("the man Christ Jesus") and His unique role.
1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God."

Sad part is you are yet to work out what type of flesh Christ was raised up out of. True Gospel states he was born of a woman!

The apostle John emphasizes the importance of acknowledging Jesus' incarnation, affirming His true humanity.
These passages collectively affirm the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union, demonstrating that Jesus Christ is both fully divine and fully human, united in one person.
incarnation is nowhere taught in the Bible and its another humanism design from councils where the meeting of fleshly mind mused upon things they had no knowledge of.

F2F
 
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BlessedPeace

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I don't post ideology or opinion.

All I have done is post scripture.

Jesus taught us the truth. What He tells us to do is not up for discussion.

Either you believe and do what He said for us to do, or you don't.

He gave us all the same warning and instruction. He doesn't have favorites.


If means we have a choice. Anyone refers to anyone. Abide means remain. Jesus desires us to remain in Him, because in Him is eternal life.

The Apostle John recorded the words of Christ for us to read and do. Jesus gave John the same instructions He gave to all His disciples.

If anyone does not abide in Me,...

If anyone doesn't remain in Him, then these are the consequences... and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.


Here is how the Apostle John instructed us by the Holy Spirit to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Why would any Christian want to live in disobedience to Christ.

His commandments are instructions about love; Loving God and loving people.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20




JLB
You post error. Incessantly. And you know this. JLB, JPT, et al..

Therein lies the problem... lots of folks have been indoctrinated to only accept
a handful of scripture passages and then throw the rest of the Bible in the trash.

Most folks that go to church treat the pastor like they do the doctor or the lawyer
and believe that they are trained professionals who only speak truth and how dare
anyone question what they say! I know people who think this and they believe
whatever their pastor says without studying God's Word like the bereans

In Christianity that's a recipe for deception seeing that Jesus warns us in Mt 24
that in the end times many will come in His Name and will deceive many.

Clearly in the end times we are living, deception is the greatest danger mankind faces.




They cannot believe what Jesus said because if they did that they would be admitting they have been believing wrong.

So, they must somehow explain away what Jesus said or otherwise claim Jesus is not speaking to Christians.
Same goes for you too, "Big Boy....".
 

RedFan

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By neglecting to uphold sound doctrine and allowing these influences to take root, we risk compromising the faith. It's crucial to return to the teachings of Scripture and exercise the necessary discipline to maintain the purity and integrity of the church.

Correct?
I don't know. When it comes to posting on fora like this one, I prefer letting the "marketplace of ideas" root out the falsehoods. The cream will rise to the top eventually, simply by participants' decision to reject and then ignore posters like him. Test everything, as they say. And reject whatever doesn't pass the test.
 

Christian Soldier

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You have not read John 15 among others. Jesu said in John 15 those that do not abide IN Him baring fruit are cutt of and thrown in to the fire.

And you failed to understand that Jesus is responsible for the content that came thru His Apostles.

OSAS makes a mockery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by claiming one remains saved even if they fall away from the Lord and live like the devil. Shameful!

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
I have read John 15 and I reject your false interpretation of it.
You're asking me to approach the verse with the view that we are saved by our works and kept saved by our works. I have called that view out for what it is, a false doctrine or doctrine of Demons if you like.

The truth is, nobody is saved by anything they did or continue to do. Saved people are saved by God and He is the One who keeps them saved. So you can't have it both ways as your "name it and claim it mob" teaches. Salvation is either of the Lord or of man, the Bible doesn't say that it's a joint effort either so you are forced to choose one or the other.

In John 15, Christ is basically saying. Those who walk with me, will arrive at a destination, those who join us along the walk and fall away were never of us. They were never believers, they only joined in to see if they could use Me to fulfill their lustful desires. But when they realized, that I wouldn't they went back to their own ways.

The whole problem with your theology is, you start out with a false premise, then you twist and force all the other scriptures which expose you to fit your false narrative.

God doesn't contradict Himself, scripture interprets scripture. You need to conform yourself to what it teaches and not the other way around, where you force scripture to comply with your totally depraved expectations.
 

face2face

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I have read John 15 and I reject your false interpretation of it.
You're asking me to approach the verse with the view that we are saved by our works and kept saved by our works. I have called that view out for what it is, a false doctrine or doctrine of Demons if you like.
Are the works of men or of God?
 

face2face

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@Christian Soldier

2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him?
Jas 2:14.

The OSAS believer would say yes! James would say no!

Hence the need to remain / abide in Christ as an Act of Will on our part as the Works of God will come if you remain.

I'll go with the wisdom of James and Paul over those unbalanced believers in this forum

F2F
 

face2face

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OSAS preachers remind me of the spirit of those disciples in John 8

@mailmandan

“We are descendants of Abraham,” they replied, “and have never been anyone’s slaves! How can you say, ‘You will become free’?”
Jn 8:32–33.

Can see they lied in there collective pride!

“Never In Bondage” you say – what of Egypt? ( The “house of bondage” Ex 13:14). Assyria, Babylon and now Rome!!!

Their proud words recorded in Ezek 33:23-24

The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, the ones living in these ruins in the land of Israel are saying, ‘Abraham was only one man, yet he possessed the land, but we are many; surely the land has been given to us for a possession

Did they even know they were being proud and lying?

This is self deception at is most obvious.

I've seen it here in this forum.

These like those above have overlooked the greatest enemy of all!

Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, everyone who practices sin is a slave of sin Jn 8:34.

An enemy @Christian Soldier is yet to learn about!

Rom 6:16-17 Miserable service, wages of death! (personified so we understand its power!)

F2F
 
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Christian Soldier

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So, of God, how can they be works of man then?
You have overcome your own objection!
F2F
Yes, of God. Because man's best works are filthy rags. Why are you pushing this lie that "abide in Him" means abide in filthy rags. That's an abomination and a highly blasphemous suggestion.
 

Christian Soldier

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@Christian Soldier

2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him?
Jas 2:14.

The OSAS believer would say yes! James would say no!

Hence the need to remain / abide in Christ as an Act of Will on our part as the Works of God will come if you remain.

I'll go with the wisdom of James and Paul over those unbalanced believers in this forum

F2F
Why do you insist on making false accusations, against those who expose your false unbiblical theology.

When did anyone suggest they can be saved without good works. We never claimed that God saved us to serve Satan, that's an abominable false accusation. I can't find words strong enough to rebuke you and keep my humility.

You have swallowed the lie of Satan, to think that you will be saved by your good works. Well I've got news for you and it's all bad.

When God saved me, He began to do good works through me. He didn't do those good works, in order to save me, but it's because He saved me from being a God hater to be a God lover. As such I want to please Him, and to please Him means not to resist His Holy Spirit. His Holy Spirit leads us and does good works through us, because we are still dumb sheep who only have filthy rags to offer God.

You make false assumptions and false allegations and accusations, without thinking about it. It's like you're on autopilot, with knee jerk false reactions.
 

face2face

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Yes, of God. Because man's best works are filthy rags. Why are you pushing this lie that "abide in Him" means abide in filthy rags. That's an abomination and a highly blasphemous suggestion.
You like to put words in other peoples mouths...a devil! Do you like being a devil, Christian?

The point you have made is the OSAS keep bantering on about works, as if they are mans works, however if they remain in the tree the branches will bare fruit / works.

This is not difficult

F2F
 

face2face

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Why do you insist on making false accusations, against those who expose your false unbiblical theology.

When did anyone suggest they can be saved without good works. We never claimed that God saved us to serve Satan, that's an abominable false accusation. I can't find words strong enough to rebuke you and keep my humility.

Go back in all the discussion, OSAS is the claim of Once Saved (one time event) always saved! Maybe you have a variation of that arrogant belief? If so, dont get your undies in a twist - spit it out!


You have swallowed the lie of Satan, to think that you will be saved by your good works. Well I've got news for you and it's all bad.

We are saved by God's Grace and the fruits He produces through us are His Works not mens! Discipleship is a life practicing its disciplines, a probationary life livef in service.

When God saved me,
You're being saved Christian if in fact you understand the principles of atonement.
He began to do good works through me. He didn't do those good works, in order to save me, but it's because He saved me from being a God hater to be a God lover.
True - so why do OSAS have a hang up with works?
As such I want to please Him, and to please Him means not to resist His Holy Spirit. His Holy Spirit leads us and does good works through us, because we are still dumb sheep who only have filthy rags to offer God.

You make false assumptions and false allegations and accusations, without thinking about it. It's like you're on autopilot, with knee jerk false reactions.
No the previous post is correct.

Arrogant OSAS believers assume upon His Kindness and don't undestand how high the calling is and how they of their own will can make that calling sure! Again if our will is his then its not by flesh but by his Word as do these things.

F2F
 

Christian Soldier

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You like to put words in other peoples mouths...a devil! Do you like being a devil, Christian?

The point you have made is the OSAS keep bantering on about works, as if they are mans works, however if they remain in the tree the branches will bare fruit / works.

This is not difficult

F2F
It's not difficult it's impossible to remain in the tree. So the branches must wither and die.

If you believe that nonsense that you can abide by the power of your filthy rags, then you're dead wrong. So if you say it's not by your filthy rags, then what keeps you there.
And the other important question to ask yourself is, how did you become a member of the tree as a totally depraved God hating, sin loving servant of Satan. We are all born God hating, sin loving servants of Satan.
 

face2face

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It's not difficult it's impossible to remain in the tree. So the branches must wither and die.
So you're not in the Christ tree?
If you believe that nonsense that you can abide by the power of your filthy rags,
Not sure where you're getting this Christian - you seem to have a thing about fithly rags?
then you're dead wrong. So if you say it's not by your filthy rags, then what keeps you there.
Faith!
And the other important question to ask yourself is, how did you become a member of the tree as a totally depraved God hating, sin loving servant of Satan. We are all born God hating, sin loving servants of Satan.
You mean servants of the flesh, right? Not sure where you get this satan nonsense from ?

F2F
 

Christian Soldier

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So you're not in the Christ tree?

Not sure where you're getting this Christian - you seem to have a thing about fithly rags?

Faith!

You mean servants of the flesh, right? Not sure where you get this satan nonsense from ?

F2F
As an Elect Saint of God, I am in Christ (the Church). I don't abide in Him by anything I do, it's by what He is doing. That's something you are yet to understand, because you're still relying on your "faith" = "filthy rags". Your faith is filthy rags, when it's used as a work to keep you saved.

I've got a big thing with filthy rags, because all the free choice crowd rely on their filthy rags to save them. Mans biggest problem is that his filthy rags can't save him, but it's all he has so he keeps using them to cleanse himself of his sin and present himself as clean before God.

Servant / Slave / Bondage, same thing. Everyone is born hating God, totally depraved, in bondage to sin and Satan, loving their sin and dead in it. They remain that way for all eternity unless God rescues them, form their.

But you say, who needs God I've got my filthy rags to save myself with. Don't you know that God said your "BEST WORKS" are as filthy rags in His sight. He wasn't talking about your normal everyday works, which are off the scale evil. He was talking about you helping old ladies cross the street.