OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[face2face]

A righteous man regards the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are only cruelty.
Amen to that!

 

[face2face]

As we all know, Judas will represent all those rejected at the judgement seat for one reason or another. While some in this thread are able to elevate themselves as saved, while identifying the chaff who may not, there are valuable lessons found in the life and death of Judas Iscariot.

27:3 Now when Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus had been condemned, he regretted what he had done and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders Mt 27:3.

His motive was personal gain. He had not seen the full consequences of his betrayal and never thought the Jews would go to this extreme! Clearly not privy to their plan to kill him!

The word "regretted"is not the usual word for ‘Godly’ repentance. Here “metamellomai” = “a change of feeling”, “regret”, as opposed to “Metandeo” = “change of heart and purpose” as in Acts 2:38

Many Christians have regret though not the type of deep regret which produces Godly Grief / repentance such as Paul speaks of here:

For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation (everlasting life) without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (total cessation of life) 2 Corith 7:10

Those who understand OSAS as being a false teaching will immediately see the issue above! There is a godly grief which produces repentance which leads a person to salvation (process / probationary). However, the type of regret in Judas was not felt in him deeply enough to wound his conscience toward change

2 Cor 7:8 “Metamellomai” “regret”
2 Cor 7:9-10 “Metandeo” “repentance”

Here is the issue for @mailman and his crew.

They are able to identify all those Christians who “Metamellomai” “regret” and those who “Metandeo” “repentance”

This begs the question...can you trust them to define those who are truly repentant from those who merely regret their action?

The Bible states this is the work of Christ at his coming, and not for those here to judge now.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Cont...Judas

27:4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood!” But they said, “What is that to us? You take care of it yourself!” (callous, cold-blooded hypocrites!) Mt 27:3–4.

Where did this confession leave the priests! Judas’ withdrawal underlines the miscarriage of justice!

“Betrayed innocent blood” – in the locality of Judas’ death, Jeremiah gathers the priests to denounce them for shedding “innocent blood” Jer 19:1-4

The Lord told Jeremiah, “Go and buy a clay jar from a potter. Take with you some of the leaders of the people and some of the leaders of the priests. 19:2 Go out to the part of the Hinnom Valley which is near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. Announce there what I tell you. 19:3 Say, ‘Listen to what the Lord says, you kings of Judah and citizens of Jerusalem! The Lord God of Israel who rules over all says, “I will bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears about it ring! 19:4 I will do so because these people have rejected me and have defiled this place. They have offered sacrifices in it to other gods which neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah knew anything about. They have filled it with the blood of innocent children Je 19:1–4.

The hardened potter’s vessel is shattered (‘burst asunder’) in the valley of Hinnom (“Tophet” = “smiting”)

Jer 19:11. Burial place of Israel

19:11 Tell them the Lord who rules over all says, ‘I will do just as Jeremiah has done. I will smash this nation and this city as though it were a potter’s vessel which is broken beyond repair. The dead will be buried here in Topheth until there is no more room to bury them.’ Je 19:11.

How many priests, so called Christians have shed innocent blood? What will it be like when all things are known, when the book of lives are open and read?

OSAS you say?

He brought me to the entrance of the court, and as I watched, I noticed a hole in the wall. 8:8 He said to me, “Son of man, dig into the wall.” So I dug into the wall and discovered a doorway. 8:9 He said to me, “Go in and see the evil abominations they are practicing here. Eze 8:7–9.

Probationary otherwise who would make a claim on God and make him a debtor?

He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy!

F2F

 

[Taken]

Why is it you OSAS believers always like to cherry pick verses, lists and everything else which suits your beliefs.

You missed on!

F2F

BECAUSE Scripture teaches Scriptural Verification is Righteous.

WHY do you NEVER give Scriptural Verification for anyone receiving Salvation and then Losing their Salvation?

 

[Taken]

And when does that restoration-of-the-soul take place? The hour I first believed? When I have finished the race? At some other time or event?

It is at the moment of an ACT of man and ACT of the Lord God.

*Act of man - Freely, Willingly giving his Bodily Life unto Death, unto the Lord God.

*Act of the Lord God - Verifying the mans Act is Heartfully True.

 

[face2face]

The other member face2face, has some strange idea that Jesus had to be killed to pay for His sins and then make it possible for believers to accept His sacrifice as payment for their sin.
He won't come out and admit this buy he said it by way of implication, he denies saying it but he didn't explain what he actually believes.

Maybe you are not the sharpest tool in the shed, but your inferences are way off! I believe this is the second time you have made false accusations. Strangley that makes you a devil (false accuser) as the word means.

The Apostles make it very clear Jesus had our nature:

1. He could be tempted - had the potential to sin!

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15

- Most Christians can't comprehend the word "every", its clearly too profound a word for them!
- Most Christian don't understand the requirement for a High Priest - Heb 5:1
- For Jesus to be tempted, he must have sins flesh! - Romans 8:1 (NOW! there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus!)

2. Death had dominion over Jesus and was aging and would eventually corrupt in the grave (if not for His Fathers Promise to raise him!)

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death (working in him) no longer has dominion over him. Romans 6:9

- God is a God of the Living, not the dead! Death then is an enemy of God because death is the wages of sin; 1 Corinthians 15:55-58 “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your pain?” Death's power to hurt is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But we thank God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ

How did God remove the Law of Sin and Death which is represented in the Body of Christ?

Christian does not know the mystery and these things are hidden from him (sad but true).

No one in the forum knows why God required his Son to be raised up in Sins Flesh and to suffer for righteousness sake, therefore they do not understand the Victory He achieved in His Son.

If the Victory is unknown to them and they cannot discern the Lord's Body then the Atonement is also unkown and you are in your sins.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. (Rom. 5:11).

How much is in that word "through?"

Most here will never know this side of the Kingdom age.

F2F

 

[face2face]

the Sav-ed, 2 Cor 2:15
the Cover-ed, Rom 4:7
the Wash-ed, 1 Cor 6:11
the Forgiv-en, Rom 4:7
the Santifi-ed, 1 Cor 6:11
The Perfect-ed FOR EVER, Heb 10:14

Can you list "the Judgement"...you missed one!

 

[face2face]

WHY do you NEVER give Scriptural Verification for anyone receiving Salvation and then Losing their Salvation?

Romans 11:22

 

[Taken]

Can you list "the Judgement"...you missed one!

I can LIST every, Who, What, When, Where, WHY…in Scripture that APPLIES to me…
But you Can’t.

 

[Taken]

Romans 11:22

Belief…Unbelief…Belief….

Belief…is a Condition.
Salvation … is a Gift

Nothing in Romans 11:22 says ANYONE RECEIVED Salvation then didn’t have Salvation!

Failed again.

Rom 11:
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

 

[JLB]

I posted multiple scripture references with actual scripture in posts #297, #300 and #374 that were addressed to you.

Now you don't come straight out and specifically say we are "saved by works," but you imply it over and over again in your posts by saying that we remain in Christ, remain saved based on keeping His commandments/works - "type 2 works salvation." How do you interpret James 2:14-26?

I know that 1 John 3:24 is the truth. Keeping His commandments is the demonstrative evidence that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. Just like confessing that Jesus is the son of God is the demonstrative evidence that God abides in him, and he in God (1 John 4:15) along with abiding in love is the demonstrative evidence that we abide in God and God in us. (1 John 4:16)

No one is justified, by disobedience.

No one is saved by disobedience.

If you believe such nonsense then that's on you.


Here is what the scripture plainly says about who receives eternal salvation.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

Whether it's His Gospel, His Doctrine or His Commandments, we are called to righteousness, which starts with obedience.

Obeying His Gospel is how it all begins.

If we should sin, we can confess our sins and be forgiven.


since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit is the demonstrative evidence that we are in Christ.

Romans 8:1 gives us two distinct and different walks, or lifestyles of those who are in Christ Jesus.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to
the Spirit. Romans 8:1

The two different lifestyles of those who are in Christ -

1. according to the flesh
2. according to the Spirit

JLB

 

[Wick Stick]

It is at the moment of an ACT of man and ACT of the Lord God.

*Act of man - Freely, Willingly giving his Bodily Life unto Death, unto the Lord God.

*Act of the Lord God - Verifying the mans Act is Heartfully True.

That seems a good answer to me. It's still a little nebulous on the timing, but it may just be that the timing is NOT the same for everyone.

You didn't ask, but I'll share my understanding here anyway. It seems only right since you have answered my questions.

As far as I can tell, the Bible says that God guarantees the salvation of each man by giving him/her an earnest on salvation - the Spirit in our minds.

Now He which establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. (2Cor 1:21-22)

In business (and especially real estate), an earnest is a payment that a buyer puts down as a show of their good faith intention to complete a purchase. If the buyer reneges, they forfeit that money. If the seller decides not to sell them the house, they must refund the money.

Apply that here. Salvation may not ultimately be accomplished until the Judgment and Resurrection, but if God has given a guarantee, we can be sure that He will complete the transaction. It seems appropriate to refer to the person who has received the guarantee as SAVED.

It also stands to reason that the person who has received the earnest on the purchase of... themself... could decide not to sell, and refund the earnest. They would have to return the deposit... a willful rejection of the transaction. Since the earnest IS the Spirit, the Bible refers to this as blasphemy of the Spirit. This could be no accident of sinning, nor even a few trespasses, but a willful rejection of the Spirit of God and a decision NOT to be purchased.

I don't understand why a person would do that, but it does seem to be possible. One cannot lose their salvation, but they can reject it.

 

[Taken]

That seems a good answer to me.
As far as I can tell, the Bible says that God guarantees the salvation of each man by giving him/her an earnest on salvation - the Spirit in our minds.

I would disagree.
God does not “change our minds”, nor accept a vow of belief from our “minds”.

Our minds are wishy washy, changing routinely regarding its thoughts…and as Scripture says:

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It is the “natural spirit of man” (which is a natural mans, natural truth in his heart) that which calls on the Lord and declares Belief in the Lord God.)

Such a man making that true calling and declaration…is the same whom the Lord God shall SAVE that mans soul…Give him a new heart (circumcision), Gods Seed, in his new heart, birth that man a new spirit from Gods Seed, and Gods Spirit of Truth, which thereafter dwells in that mans heart, with that mans spirit. Such a man having Gods Spirit IN him, is Forever kept in Belief, kept unto the Lord God, BY Gods Power IN him.

Can such a man MAKE his own MIND, sub-servant to his own “born again spirit” in his heart? Yes.

Can such a man EVER, reject, deny, stand against God (ie SIN) again? No.

Does that man need to DO ANYTHING to keep his Salvation? No.

Can such a man DO WORKS to Glorify God?
Yes.
And…
All works that man DOES to Glorify God, shall receive a reward.
And…
All works ANY man DOES that does NOT Glorify God…shall be burned.

Agree on defining EARNEST.

God Bless you.
Glory to God,

Taken

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The two different lifestyles of those who are in Christ -

1. according to the flesh
2. according to the Spirit

Yep, and those that walk after the flesh shall die spiritually

And, to be carnally minded is spiritual death both of which we see in Romans 8

The OSAS crowd must either ignore Romans 8 or tell deceptive tale of dark lore to try and explain Romans 8 away.

The OSAS crowd is engaged in ongoing chicanery

 

[mailmandan]

No one is justified, by disobedience.

No one is saved by disobedience.

If you believe such nonsense then that's on you.

Here is what the scripture plainly says about who receives eternal salvation.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9

Whether it's His Gospel, His Doctrine or His Commandments, we are called to righteousness, which starts with obedience.

Obeying His Gospel is how it all begins.

If we should sin, we can confess our sins and be forgiven.

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JLB

Saved and justified by disobedience is a straw man argument. I never said anything about that.

In regard to Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I often hear works-salvationists cite this verse in their effort to support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through their un-regenerate flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. So, in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

So, how does one obey the gospel? In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Not to be CONFUSED with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yep, and those that walk after the flesh shall die spiritually

And, to be carnally minded is spiritual death both of which we see in Romans 8

The OSAS crowd must either ignore Romans 8 or tell deceptive tale of dark lore to try and explain Romans 8 away.

The OSAS crowd is engaged in ongoing chicanery

lol. Aww poor guy. We trust god so we are engaged in something

Try trusting god and not yourself once. You may find real peace and not the self righteous Pharisee I am you are sick with

 

[mailmandan]

Romans 8:1 gives us two distinct and different walks, or lifestyles of those who are in Christ Jesus.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to
the Spirit. Romans 8:1

The two different lifestyles of those who are in Christ -

1. according to the flesh
2. according to the Spirit

JLB

False. I already thoroughly explained this in post #519.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

False. I already thoroughly explained this in post #519.

Some people can get past their own pride. They look to self to much and can not for some reason look to God. While claiming they do

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Some people can get past their own pride.

Too bad the OSAS people can't get past their pride.

The OSAS peoples done corrupted Arthur81 . . . . he thinks it's OK to get gay!