OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Taken]

…we have proven OSAS to be false doctrine…

That statement implies you have proven Christ Jesus to be a liar…which is false.


John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Once a man IS Saved, it IS forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[mailmandan]

That statement implies you have proven Christ Jesus to be a liar…which is false.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Once a man IS Saved, it IS forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

Those who suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome are absolutely obsessed with trying to prove OSAS to be false.doctrine. Also, misery loves company.

I have found that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works (including Catholicism and Mormonism) strongly oppose OSAS which remains a major red flag for me.

 

[Taken]

Those who suffer from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome are absolutely obsessed with trying to prove OSAS to be false.doctrine. Also, misery loves company.

I have found that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works (including Catholicism and Mormonism) strongly oppose OSAS which remains a major red flag for me.

It matters NOT what is Offered to manKIND, by whom…
A bank loan, a lottery ticket, a raffle, a marriage proposal, on and on…IF the Offering IS “NOT” ACCEPTED BY the Pre-SET deadline…
…the Offering become Forfeited.

God offered manKIND…to Accept His Word.
Jesus (Gods Word) offered manKIND…to Accept Him.

Christ was Revealed, He IS the Power, that Can and Will SEAL the Acceptance of A True Heartful Confession of Belief IN Christ Jesus….

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


AND
God Will SEAL the Acceptance of A True Heartful Believer IN Jesus who did not openly Confess.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The Lord “claims” redeems those ‘IN Christ”.
God “claims” redeems those “IN Jesus”.

No man IS “claimed” / “redeemed” UNTIL a bodily Death of a man HAS Occurred…(always according TO the terms of the ONE WHO has MADE the OFFERING…ie in this case the TERMS are according TO GODS ORDER and WAY.)

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Before Jesus’ Offering…NO mans soul COULD BE SAVED UNTIL AFTER that man, Physically, bodily died, Whilst believing IN (his heart, ie natural spirit of man), IN God.

After Jesus’ arrival…and Jesus’ Offering…a new better testament OF SURETY was Offered manKind.

Heb 7
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

According to Gods Order…and WAY (Jesus), mankind could Heartfuly Declare with His own word his heartful belief…AND Pledge his own body as a “living sacrifice”… AND Receive THEN his “forgiveness for having had not believed”…his “Saved soul”…his “quickened spirit”…


Rom 10: (this is a mans ONE work satisfactory unto God)
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Rom 12: (This is the ONE Service acceptable by God)
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

A presenting SERVICE…IS a man being “CRUCIFIED with Jesus’ Body”!

The Lamb’s BOOK of LIFE…receives the Names of those men who HAVE…
Accomplished their one work…and Believed in their heart, IN Christ the Lord God…Accomplished their one service…and Pledged their body unto the Lord God…

AND NEVER can their name BE Blotted out of the Lambs Book of Life.

Rev 21:
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

John the Baptizer himself…discloses WHO is the Savior and Baptizer of the Holy Spirit, offered to all and given only once and forever to men.

Men certainly CAN change their MINDS…who cares….The Lord God SAVES SOULS based on a mans TRUE Hearts thoughts…not the Mind.

The ridiculous pretense that a man CAN fool the all knowing God and trick God into giving him Salvation and then lose his Salvation is ludicrous.

A man ONLY Loses his salvation……BY NOT claiming it…which is forfeiture.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

My position has not changed. It's impossible to reason with you.

Not impossible. It was a sincere question....maybe you were talking to the life and faith and trials more than usual?
F2F

 

[face2face]

That statement implies you have proven Christ Jesus to be a liar…which is false.


John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Once a man IS Saved, it IS forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

@mailmandan
Taken, Mailman & I have been doing this for what feels like weeks. In the beginning, he would cherry pick a section of Scripture, as you have done and say "there you go, OSAS!", until the complete Biblical picture is presented and then this process goes around and around until either one us loses patience and say something antagonising.

If the record only ever spoke in terms of all being guaranteed salvation (we would have a different Bible!) then you would have everyone onboard your love boat, but the truth is there is an exception to the rule.

While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12

1. The first point, is there was an exception! Mailman will try and justify this after the fact, but the exception stands.
2. Notice how it states that the Scripture might be filfilled? How many others Scriptures will be filfilled? The 5 foolish Virgins? The Tares? The Goats? The man with no wedding garment (he was at the feast, my word!) etc etc... This goes on and on to the point it becomes ridiculous to hold your view!

But one thing I know is true - God knows those who are in His Hand, and He knows those who will ascend His Holy hill and those who won't. Make your calling and election sure by making it an act of your will everyday. Pray to be led into truth and not to be deceived by this OSAS nonsense.

Let me explain what the Son of Pedition /Distruction means. Its a Hebraism for one who makes his own choice,

Mailman likes to catagorise believers into groups, which goes against the doctrine of OSAS when you think about it:

12 Now the sons of Eli were worthless men. They did not know the Lord. 13 The custom of the priests with the people was that when any man offered sacrifice, the priest’s servant would come, while the meat was boiling, with a three-pronged fork in his hand, 1 Sa 2:12–13.

These men believed they were in a convenant relationship with God, but due to their choices like Judas are worthless men. We wont go into what they were doing, as it was digusting.

4 Whom are you mocking? Against whom do you open your mouth wide and stick out your tongue? Are you not children of transgression, the offspring of deceit Is 57:4.

Israel was riddled with people like these, and Christianity is no different! You both must know this, you can’t be so sheltered not to know the World is full of deceitful Christians who are wholesaling Christ for money, jets and expensive homes! Imagine preaching your OSAS at them? Casting pearls before swine!

Both of you have no position to judge who is saved and who is rejected - God Words will judge in that day.

No doubt Judas' problem is the same as written here:

8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 1 Ti 6:8–9.

You both know Christians will be found to fulfill these Scriptures that it will be said "these are they who fell in temptation and in a snare and lost their salvation!"

For all I know, you both could be such and how would I know?

Having said that, I have found mailman to be sincere and genuine...deceived, but genuine!

F2F

 

[Taken]

@mailmandan
Taken, Mailman & I have been doing this for what feels like weeks. In the beginning, he would cherry pick a section of Scripture, as you have done and say "there you go, OSAS!", until the complete Biblical picture is presented and then this process goes around and around until either one us loses patience and say something antagonising.

If the record only ever spoke in terms of all being guaranteed salvation (we would have a different Bible!) then you would have everyone onboard your love boat, but the truth is there is an exception to the rule.

You are describing NOTHING NEW.

And upfront, your “cherry-picking comment”…meant to be derogatory…IS EXACTLY what I do, mail man dan does, others do, you do.

You simply do NOT consider or comprehend…

ALL Scripture IS TRUE…
BUT
ALL Scripture DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL MEN!

God FORETELLS what He SHALL DO…
ONCE His Prophecy IS ACCOMPLISHED…
IT IS FINISHED…It IS Fulfilled…It does NOT require to be Fulfilled over and over.

Once a man Accomplishes and Fulfills What God offers manKind…It IS Finished…It is Fulfilled…It does NOT require to be Fulfilled over and over.

Men can BE “WITH” the Lord God, TODAY, then not TOMORROW, FOR Years with the Lord God, then Walk Away..
Believe, doubt, believe, doubt, say he believes, be involved in Church duties, rituals….then walk Away…even profess his unbelief.

* Read ancient biblical history…Hebrews, WITH…then withOUT God…Jews WITH…then withOUT God…Jews WITH…then withOUT Jesus.

* Look at the FACTS…when a man IS WITH God…then walks away….UH, UH, UH…God in-turn is NO LONG WITH that man.

* Look at manKIND…in relationships, WITH a woman, even Marries, BREAKS his vow, and is no longer WITH his wife, no she WITH him.

Look at Judas Iscariot…WITH Jesus, then withOUT Jesus.

Look at the crowds Eager to Hear Jesus Speak…waiting, hungry, fed, mmm, tummy happy, listening to Jesus’ speak, can’t believe, Walk Away.

Now Look at Simon Barjona (Peter)…amongst the people at large, AFRAID, and DENY Knowing Jesus, BUT DID NOT DENY Believing IN Him.

You “cherry-pick” Scriptures of men who ARE WITH the Lord God…
WHO ARE maintaining their OPTION to WALK AWAY…

I (and mailman dad) and others “cherry-pick’ Scriptures….THAT WHICH NOT ONLY are A mans OPTION….BUT THAT WHICH ACTUALLY APPLY to US.

THAT OPTION…is an Express Offering JESUS Offered to men…according to HIS TERMS (Order and WAY)…

THAT OPTION…is a “surety”…a “guarantee” to FOREVER, be “WITH” the Lord God…AND He FOREVER “WITH” that individual.

The ORDER and WAY, is expressly revealed IN Scripture, step by step…WHICH expressly APPLIES to an individuals…
BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT…
* MADE Changed by the willingness and agreement of the individual man.
* MADE Changed by the POWER of God.
* KEPT Changed by the POWER OF GOD…
…………WITH-IN…that individual.

* It by, through, of…The POWER of God…”IN” an individual, which KEEPS a man “WITH” God FOREVER.

* It is your choice of Scriptures regarding MEN…”NOT IN Christ Jesus”…and “Christ Jesus NOT IN men”….
Men WHO are “with and with out” the Lord God, by, through, of the ACT OF THEIR OWN POWER.

I don’t deny the Scriptures you present…
Absolutely I believe them.

The FACT IS those Scriptures simply DO NOT APPLY to a man IN Christ! Nor does a man IN Christ need to consider those Scriptures REGARDING himself IN Christ.

Those scriptures simply DO NOT Apply to me, to mailmandan, to others WHO ELECTED, CHOSE the Lords Offering…THAT HE “ONCE” and “FOREVER”:
* Forgive a man for having not believed
(Which all humans are naturally born in unbelief)
* Accept the mans “surrendering” of his body, his soul, his spirit to the POWER OF GOD to HAVE and KEEP that man Forever unto Himself.

Do YOU NOT “comprehend” the DIFFERENCE…between “WITH” and “WITHIN” ?

Do you NOT “comprehend” the “SIGNIFICANCE”?

A man WHO is FREELY, WILLINGLY “surrendering” his “WHOLE” being:
Body, Soul, Spirit…unto the Lord God…
IS:
Literally attesting to his LAST WILL and TESTAMENT…and Naming the Lord God Almighty the Execrator and Recipient OF that mans most prized possessions…
His BODY, his SOUL, his SPIRIT.

And ON THE DAY of Gods Choosing HE SHALL Redeem, Collect, HIS “Inheritance” that which WAS…Freely WILLED unto Him.
AND…THEN…
That which was “FINISHED”…(the process of Jesus’ Offering…and the process of men being naturally born, making their own free will choices….)
THEN SHALL…that which WAS “FINISHED”, be called “DONE”.

John 19:
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Men “IN” Christ…HAVE already FINISHED…Declaring and Sealing their Last Will and Testament WITH the Lord God Almighty.
They simply WAIT in peace and comfort UNTIL the DAY the Lord God Almighty “COLLECTS / REDEEMS” His Inheritance…
THEN…IT (that process) “IS DONE”.

Rev 21:
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wick Stick]

That statement implies you have proven Christ Jesus to be a liar…which is false.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Once a man IS Saved, it IS forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

It depends on how you define SAVED. And that tends to be the problem with OSAS discussions... everyone doesn't define it the same. So, what's SAVED mean?

The TULIP crowd refers to it instead as Perseverance of the Saints, meaning that everyone who truly believes on Christ will eventually finish the race in good standing. That's clear enough to me, though I don't agree with it.

The timing of salvation is ambiguous. Is one SAVED when they first believe? When they are baptized with water? Baptized in the Spirit? Does it happen at some point when a believer reaches a level of maturity? Is it not finally sealed until death?

Is it contingent on another party? I.e. does it require membership in a church? Must one be adopted as part of Israel? Is God's stamp of approval required? or can the church/pastor/priest confer it? Does it require some sacraments? Is salvation a matter of group membership, or is it an individual thing?

There is a lot be sorted before we can even get to the question of OSAS, and I don't see where much of it has been addressed here. The opening post argued from tradition and historical precedent, which isn't a bad thing. The following 26 pages seem to be mostly baseless assertions, mudslinging, and quoting the Bible out of context.

 

[Taken]

It depends on how you define SAVED. And that tends to be the problem with OSAS discussions... everyone doesn't define it the same. So, what's SAVED mean?

SAVED IS expressly in regard to a mans SOUL, being “restored”…FROM “corrupt”…BACK TO “Very good”, as it was when God gave a mans BODY, a soul.

The “Consequence” FOR A “SAVED” soul …
IS…God shall NEVER remove His LIFE (ie His Breath) From a Saved SOUL…And FOREVER KEEP that Saved Soul…WITH Him.

The “Consequence” FOR AN “UNSAVED” soul…
IS…God SHALL ultimately remove His Life (ie His Breath) From That Soul, THEN destroy that Soul, and Remember it no more.

All souls belong to God.
First man, was not born, rather created from dust…and MADE alive, receiving a soul from God.
Thereafter, manKIND is reproduced from mans seed, reproducing his same KIND of “thing” offspring.
Adam became corrupt…thus every manKIND is reproduced from a mans seed…corrupt.
All of manKINDS flesh IS Corrupt.

A very Good soul is given into a new born.
A very Good soul becomes corrupt being IN corrupt Flesh.
God Offers A WAY, His way, to “restore” a mans soul back to very good.

Gen 1:
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God doesn’t “re-CREAT”….but He certainly has OFFERED to “re—MAKE”… BACK to “very good”….a mans SOUL…by, through, of RESTORATION.

Pss 23:
[3] He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

You are describing NOTHING NEW.

I must admit Taken its a real struggle working through your replies.

And upfront, your “cherry-picking comment”…meant to be derogatory…IS EXACTLY what I do, mail man dan does, others do, you do.

It's been a proven fact from the very outset. OSAS requires certain select verses and small sections of Scripture otherwise it falls over.

You simply do NOT consider or comprehend…

ALL Scripture IS TRUE…
BUT
ALL Scripture DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL MEN!

It applies to whoever wants to learn of God and draw near to Him!

God FORETELLS what He SHALL DO…
ONCE His Prophecy IS ACCOMPLISHED…
IT IS FINISHED…It IS Fulfilled…It does NOT require to be Fulfilled over and over.

Future time stamp on this comment!

Once a man Accomplishes and Fulfills What God offers manKind…It IS Finished…It is Fulfilled…It does NOT require to be Fulfilled over and over.

Men can BE “WITH” the Lord God, TODAY, then not TOMORROW, FOR Years with the Lord God, then Walk Away..
Believe, doubt, believe, doubt, say he believes, be involved in Church duties, rituals….then walk Away…even profess his unbelief.

Correct, which is why OSAS is false. As soon as you have an exception, a but, or an "if" your wholesale guarantee is removed.

* Read ancient biblical history…Hebrews, WITH…then withOUT God…Jews WITH…then withOUT God…Jews WITH…then withOUT Jesus.

* Look at the FACTS…when a man IS WITH God…then walks away….UH, UH, UH…God in-turn is NO LONG WITH that man.

* Look at manKIND…in relationships, WITH a woman, even Marries, BREAKS his vow, and is no longer WITH his wife, no she WITH him.

You are not explaining OSAS Taken!

Look at Judas Iscariot…WITH Jesus, then withOUT Jesus.

Yup!

Look at the crowds Eager to Hear Jesus Speak…waiting, hungry, fed, mmm, tummy happy, listening to Jesus’ speak, can’t believe, Walk Away.

Now Look at Simon Barjona (Peter)…amongst the people at large, AFRAID, and DENY Knowing Jesus, BUT DID NOT DENY Believing IN Him.

You “cherry-pick” Scriptures of men who ARE WITH the Lord God…
WHO ARE maintaining their OPTION to WALK AWAY…

I (and mailman dad) and others “cherry-pick’ Scriptures….THAT WHICH NOT ONLY are A mans OPTION….BUT THAT WHICH ACTUALLY APPLY to US.

The whole applies Taken - you are doing a terrible job here - I doubt mailman would be onboard here.

THAT OPTION…is an Express Offering JESUS Offered to men…according to HIS TERMS (Order and WAY)…

THAT OPTION…is a “surety”…a “guarantee” to FOREVER, be “WITH” the Lord God…AND He FOREVER “WITH” that individual.

The ORDER and WAY, is expressly revealed IN Scripture, step by step…WHICH expressly APPLIES to an individuals…
BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT…
* MADE Changed by the willingness and agreement of the individual man.
* MADE Changed by the POWER of God.
* KEPT Changed by the POWER OF GOD…
…………WITH-IN…that individual.

* It by, through, of…The POWER of God…”IN” an individual, which KEEPS a man “WITH” God FOREVER.

* It is your choice of Scriptures regarding MEN…”NOT IN Christ Jesus”…and “Christ Jesus NOT IN men”….
Men WHO are “with and with out” the Lord God, by, through, of the ACT OF THEIR OWN POWER.

I don’t deny the Scriptures you present…
Absolutely I believe them.

Well if you did, you would not promote OSAS its that simple

The FACT IS those Scriptures simply DO NOT APPLY to a man IN Christ! Nor does a man IN Christ need to consider those Scriptures REGARDING himself IN Christ.

Those scriptures simply DO NOT Apply to me, to mailmandan, to others WHO ELECTED, CHOSE the Lords Offering…THAT HE “ONCE” and “FOREVER”:
* Forgive a man for having not believed
(Which all humans are naturally born in unbelief)
* Accept the mans “surrendering” of his body, his soul, his spirit to the POWER OF GOD to HAVE and KEEP that man Forever unto Himself.

Do YOU NOT “comprehend” the DIFFERENCE…between “WITH” and “WITHIN” ?

Do you NOT “comprehend” the “SIGNIFICANCE”?

A man WHO is FREELY, WILLINGLY “surrendering” his “WHOLE” being:
Body, Soul, Spirit…unto the Lord God…
IS:
Literally attesting to his LAST WILL and TESTAMENT…and Naming the Lord God Almighty the Execrator and Recipient OF that mans most prized possessions…
His BODY, his SOUL, his SPIRIT.

And ON THE DAY of Gods Choosing HE SHALL Redeem, Collect, HIS “Inheritance” that which WAS…Freely WILLED unto Him.
AND…THEN…
That which was “FINISHED”…(the process of Jesus’ Offering…and the process of men being naturally born, making their own free will choices….)
THEN SHALL…that which WAS “FINISHED”, be called “DONE”.

John 19:
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Men “IN” Christ…HAVE already FINISHED…Declaring and Sealing their Last Will and Testament WITH the Lord God Almighty.
They simply WAIT in peace and comfort UNTIL the DAY the Lord God Almighty “COLLECTS / REDEEMS” His Inheritance…
THEN…IT (that process) “IS DONE”.

Rev 21:
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


Glory to God,
Taken

It's done for the Lord who is the firstfruits - not one person has yet to receive immortality, not one! Christ has not returned and bestowed upon people a reward for their faithful lives.

22:18 I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book. Re 22:18–19.

Odd way to end the Prophecy don't you think?

Why is that Taken?

Teachers who set forth wrong ideas jeopardise their future by so doing (see James 3:1-2, where "masters" should be teachers).

The warning suggests that some might be rejected at the Judgment Seat for perverting or destroying the teaching of The Apocalypse.

How much more the Word of God?

Taken needs to take care!

F2F

 

[Dan Clarkston]

are absolutely obsessed with trying to prove OSAS to be false.doctrine

God's Word already proves it's false doctrine.

All you OSAS fellas are a day late and a dollar short as the saying goes.

 

[Taken]

I must admit Taken its a real struggle working through your replies.

It's been a proven fact from the very outset. OSAS requires certain select verses and small sections of Scripture otherwise it falls over.

It applies to whoever wants to learn of God and draw near to Him!

Future time stamp on this comment!

Correct, which is why OSAS is false. As soon as you have an exception, a but, or an "if" your wholesale guarantee is removed.

You are not explaining OSAS Taken!

Yup!

The whole applies Taken - you are doing a terrible job here - I doubt mailman would be onboard here.

Well if you did, you would not promote OSAS its that simple

It's done for the Lord who is the firstfruits - not one person has yet to receive immortality, not one! Christ has not returned and bestowed upon people a reward for their faithful lives.

22:18 I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book. Re 22:18–19.

Odd way to end the Prophecy don't you think?

Why is that Taken?

Teachers who set forth wrong ideas jeopardise their future by so doing (see James 3:1-2, where "masters" should be teachers).

The warning suggests that some might be rejected at the Judgment Seat for perverting or destroying the teaching of The Apocalypse.

How much more the Word of God?

Taken needs to take care!

F2F

@ Dan Clarkston

I can NOT hear, read, study, understand FOR YOU.

IF A man IS saved…

Scripture that applies to a WOMAN does not apply to that man.

Scripture that applies to an un-committed wavering individual, does not apply to that man.

Scripture that DOES APPLY IS:

the Sav-ed, 2 Cor 2:15
the Cover-ed, Rom 4:7
the Wash-ed, 1 Cor 6:11
the Forgiv-en, Rom 4:7
the Santifi-ed, 1 Cor 6:11
The Perfect-ed FOR EVER, Heb 10:14

Matters NOT if you know, believe, understand, or accept those things APPLY to “YOU”…

THEY DO APPLY to me….
BECAUSE Christ the Lord Jesus OFFERED them to manKIND…and I Freely Chose to ACCEPT His OFFERING!!

AND FYI…you, lacking in understanding of “past tense” means “accomplih-ED”…

AND FYI…you, lacking in understanding of ACCEPTING the Lords OFFERING, IS NOT a trifle volley to taking and toss it in the trash…

Accepting the Lord Gods Offering “IS” a ONE TIME Offer … to BE VERY SURE … BEFORE you ACCEPT…BECAUSE IT “IS” FOREVER.

2 Pet 1;
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Yoking UP with the Lord God, IS NOT a flippant decision…like men do with marriages, then break their vows…divorce and leave…

An individuals decision and election of heartfully choosing and declaring to be with the Lord God FOR EVER…IS a FOR EVER decision.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

You preaching to the CONTRARY is preaching AGAINST the Word of God.

Not rocket science.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Logos in relation to God, is to mean His Word by which all things exist, both the Physical Creation as per Genesis 1-3 "God said" and the Spiritual Creation in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1), Logos "became flesh". Both creations are given existence by His Logos.

You're dead wrong, I don't know why you always make God a liar but it seems you can't help yourself. The Bible says that Jesus is the Word and that Jesus is The Almighty Jehovah God, but you say it's just some abstract thing.

If you don't believe that Jesus is the Word and that the Word is God, then we're talking about different God's and that explains why we have radically different theologies. You obviously don't believe in the God of the Bible, as you have created some strange god in you own mind.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Here is what the New Spiritual Creation looks like: Feel free to check the verses for a True Gospel

View attachment 48238

You can't twist the words "you have" so far out of their intended context to make them say "you must". You read everything backwards. Hebrews 12:23 doesn't say anything like "Christ must take first place" you made that up and it sounds foolish to twist "you have" to say 'you must", that's utterly disrespectful to God and it's pure Demonic Doctrine.

There's no point in citing those verses above, while you're still a stranger to Christ. You should first learn about who He is, then you might be able to apply some of those verses to understand Him for who He is and not who you think He is.

 

[face2face]

Scripture that DOES APPLY IS:

the Sav-ed, 2 Cor 2:15
the Cover-ed, Rom 4:7
the Wash-ed, 1 Cor 6:11
the Forgiv-en, Rom 4:7
the Santifi-ed, 1 Cor 6:11
The Perfect-ed FOR EVER, Heb 10:14

Why is it you OSAS believers always like to cherry pick verses, lists and everything else which suits your beliefs.

You missed on!

F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

Corrupt Sinner? No. JWs and SDA's dont teach that. I am neither of those religions, but let's not post wrong info.

Those two I mentioned , believe that Christ came into existence as an ordinary man. Ordinary men are born with a sin nature, and if God doesn't do the work of salvation in them, then they will remain in that state.

Jesus is and has always been the Almighty Creator God, so He was the only man ever born sinless. Jesus didn't inherit Adams sin, He created Himself and lived a perfectly sinless life. So it doesn't make sense for anyone to suggest that He had to atone for His own sin.

 

[mailmandan]

 

[PS95]

Those two I mentioned , believe that Christ came into existence as an ordinary man. Ordinary men are born with a sin nature, and if God doesn't do the work of salvation in them, then they will remain in that state.

Jesus is and has always been the Almighty Creator God, so He was the only man ever born sinless. Jesus didn't inherit Adams sin, He created Himself and lived a perfectly sinless life. So it doesn't make sense for anyone to suggest that He had to atone for His own sin.

I can speak to JWs specifically.-
No, they dont teach he was a corrupt sinner but was born a "perfect" man. whatever that is.
They teach Michael the archangel's "impersonal Life-force" was put into Marys' ovum.
They wont admit to that easily, but that is the teaching.
When Jesus died, his body stayed dead and was dissolved into gases..
He did not rise, BUT that impersonal life force went back to heaven where Jehovah re-created Michael (who had gone out of existence).. and now they call him, Jesus.

it's gets worse..
In 1914 Jesus returned InVISIBLY~ & chose them as best church and has been leading ONLY them ever since.
So the gospel ("good news" is the term they use)--- is --1914 Jesus returned blah blah blah It is NOT the gospel taught in the scriptures AT ALL.

Did Jesus die for "our sins"? No. He died only for Adam's sin (original sin) which paves the way for us to try to work our way into the kingdom by being a Jw and obeying all they say.
SO HOW are their sins forgiven without the blood of Jesus?
By their own PHYSICAL DEATH- that is paying their "wage" of their sins to God. You know--- "wages of sin is death".. they dont understand very much. Somehow they managed to turn a wage that God pays of what is earned by sins into paying God a debt and the result is forgiveness by DYING. No Jesus required for your sins.-- does your head hurt much?

If your head is spinning it should be! JWs on here, love to come across as biblically educated, and they just simply need Christ!
But try talking to them about the Lord Jesus, and they will fight you tooth and nail. Most of the time you wont know they are Jws because they dont use Jehovahs name in every sentence like they do in real life.
They also will withhold certain info about their religion when asked. *Note that.

So Christian Soldier, now you know in laymens terms what they teach. It is all documented. There's much more that is serioulsy twisted but I feel I have given you a sufficient headache by now. I was raised in that religion. It is not of God.
There is enough there to choke 7000000 cows!!
But no, I will not agree about teaching Jesus was a corrupt sinner.

 

[BlessedPeace]

GNOSTICISM, JEWISH​

Under the influence of Hellenism certain Jews of the Greco-Roman period indulged in speculations that can rightly be called Gnostic, even though this Gnosticism had its own typically Jewish character. Its early manifestations can be seen in the esoteric traditions contained in the Jewish apocalyptic writings and in the dead sea scrolls; its later development is evident in the mystical speculations of the rabbis of the Talmudic period and in the so-called merkābâ mysticism; its climax is reached in the Book of yesirah and in the Gnostic elements of the Book of Bahir.

Jewish Hellenism and the Phenomenon of Gnosis. After the 3rd century b.c., Judaism came in contact with Hellenism. ...

Gnosticism, Jewish | Encyclopedia.com

GNOSTICISM, JEWISH Under the influence of Hellenism certain Jews of the Greco-Roman period indulged in speculations that can rightly be called Gnostic, even though this Gnosticism had its own typically Jewish character. Source for information on Gnosticism, Jewish: New Catholic Encyclopedia...

www.encyclopedia.com

Beliefs of Hellenistic Christianity

www.theclassroom.com

"Every religion is man made." Unknown

 

[Wick Stick]

SAVED IS expressly in regard to a mans SOUL, being “restored”…FROM “corrupt”…BACK TO “Very good”, as it was when God gave a mans BODY, a soul.

The “Consequence” FOR A “SAVED” soul …
IS…God shall NEVER remove His LIFE (ie His Breath) From a Saved SOUL…And FOREVER KEEP that Saved Soul…WITH Him.

The “Consequence” FOR AN “UNSAVED” soul…
IS…God SHALL ultimately remove His Life (ie His Breath) From That Soul, THEN destroy that Soul, and Remember it no more.

All souls belong to God.
First man, was not born, rather created from dust…and MADE alive, receiving a soul from God.
Thereafter, manKIND is reproduced from mans seed, reproducing his same KIND of “thing” offspring.
Adam became corrupt…thus every manKIND is reproduced from a mans seed…corrupt.
All of manKINDS flesh IS Corrupt.

A very Good soul is given into a new born.
A very Good soul becomes corrupt being IN corrupt Flesh.
God Offers A WAY, His way, to “restore” a mans soul back to very good.

Gen 1:
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God doesn’t “re-CREAT”….but He certainly has OFFERED to “re—MAKE”… BACK to “very good”….a mans SOUL…by, through, of RESTORATION.

Pss 23:
[3] He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.


Glory to God,
Taken

And when does that restoration-of-the-soul take place? The hour I first believed? When I have finished the race? At some other time or event?

 

[Christian Soldier]

I can speak to JWs specifically.-
No, they dont teach he was a corrupt sinner but was born a "perfect" man. whatever that is.
They teach Michael the archangel's "impersonal Life-force" was put into Marys' ovum.
They wont admit to that easily, but that is the teaching.
When Jesus died, his body stayed dead and was dissolved into gases..
He did not rise, BUT that impersonal life force went back to heaven where Jehovah re-created Michael (who had gone out of existence).. and now they call him, Jesus.

it's gets worse..
In 1914 Jesus returned InVISIBLY~ & chose them as best church and has been leading ONLY them ever since.
So the gospel ("good news" is the term they use)--- is --1914 Jesus returned blah blah blah It is NOT the gospel taught in the scriptures AT ALL.

Did Jesus die for "our sins"? No. He died only for Adam's sin (original sin) which paves the way for us to try to work our way into the kingdom by being a Jw and obeying all they say.
SO HOW are their sins forgiven without the blood of Jesus?
By their own PHYSICAL DEATH- that is paying their "wage" of their sins to God. You know--- "wages of sin is death".. they dont understand very much. Somehow they managed to turn a wage that God pays of what is earned by sins into paying God a debt and the result is forgiveness by DYING. No Jesus required for your sins.-- does your head hurt much?

If your head is spinning it should be! JWs on here, love to come across as biblically educated, and they just simply need Christ!
But try talking to them about the Lord Jesus, and they will fight you tooth and nail. Most of the time you wont know they are Jws because they dont use Jehovahs name in every sentence like they do in real life.
They also will withhold certain info about their religion when asked. *Note that.

So Christian Soldier, now you know in laymens terms what they teach. It is all documented. There's much more that is serioulsy twisted but I feel I have given you a sufficient headache by now. I was raised in that religion. It is not of God.
There is enough there to choke 7000000 cows!!
But no, I will not agree about teaching Jesus was a corrupt sinner.

There are an estimated 45,000 "Christian" Denominations, and probably a similar number of other bible based religions such as Islam, Judaism etc.

One thing most of these have in common is, they don't believe that Jesus is the Lord God. Just as the Father is Lord God, and the Holy Spirit is equally God. Most denominations, accept Father God but they don't believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are equally God.

I know the JW's don't say that Jesus had sin, but anyone who suggests that Jesus didn't have the power and dominion over sin at all times is wrong. Jesus said, while on the cross that He could have ordered legions of Angels to come and rescue Him from the execution, but He wanted to be crucified/executed.

The other member face2face, has some strange idea that Jesus had to be killed to pay for His sins and then make it possible for believers to accept His sacrifice as payment for their sin.
He won't come out and admit this buy he said it by way of implication, he denies saying it but he didn't explain what he actually believes.

From memory I think the SDA taught something along the lines, of Jesus being born as an ordinary man who never existed before His birth and that He was able to keep the whole of the law, so that opened the way for the rest of humanity to follow His example. They taught universalism, whereby every single person who ever lived will eventually be saved in the next life, so they don't believe that those in hell will get another chance to repent and they will all be saved.

There's so much false teaching, in the various denominations. Jesus warned about the wolves who would come after Him. He said they would come in sheep's clothing, and would deceive many.