Miracles, healing, tongues, and the interpretation of tongues were temporary sign gifts limited to the apostolic age and have, therefore, ceased.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

J

Johann

Guest
The Apostle Paul begins his discourse by saying...

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. - 1 Corinthians 12:4

The Apostle Paul ends his discourse by saying...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

I enjoy services where there is a good time in Worship, followed by a good time in the Word, and concluded by a time in prayer at the altar. At the church I currently attend there are probably a dozen of musicians. Some skilled in the percussion, keyboards, and string instruments. And sometimes even a word in tongues. I enjoy services where all the gifts are in operation.
1 Cor 12.8-10,28 Eph 4.11 Rom 12.6-8
6†Now, brothers, [1] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you
unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
7‡If
even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes,
how will anyone know what is played?
8And if the bugle gives an indistinct
sound, who will get ready for battle?
9So with yourselves, if with your tongue
you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For
you will be speaking into the air.
10‡There are doubtless many different
languages in the world, and none is without meaning,
11but if I do not know the
meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a
foreigner to me.
12†So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of
the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.
14‡For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
15What am
I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing
praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
16†Otherwise, if you
give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider [2]
say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
17For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being
built up.
18†I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
19†Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in
order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.


I'm glad you have a warm church and fellowship with the saints, @rockytopva. As it is written, "Let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another" (Hebrews 10:24-25). Here in South Africa, many churches have become lukewarm, as described in Revelation 3:16, "So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."

It's challenging to find one with an outreach ministry like the Ark in Durban, which aligns with the spirit of James 1:27, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world," similar to the ministry of David Wilkerson.

Shalom
Johann.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then GC Rankin tells of getting something spiritual out of a different type setting... In the course of an hour I was at my uncle's. He was surprised to see me, but gave me a cordial welcome. The first thing he did was to disarm me, and that ended my pistol-toting. I have never had one about my person or home to this good day. And I never will understand just why I had that one. A good dinner refreshed me and I soon unfolded my plans and they were satisfactory to my kind-hearted kinsman. He was in the midst of cotton-picking and that afternoon I went to the field and, with a long sack about my waist, had my first experience in the cottonfield. We then would get ready for the revival occurring that night…

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
After receiving salvation as outlined in the GC Rankin study I would pursue whatever spiritual gifts the Lord would have for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTW27

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 Cor 12.8-10,28 Eph 4.11 Rom 12.6-8
6†Now, brothers, [1] if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you
unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
7‡If
even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes,
how will anyone know what is played?
8And if the bugle gives an indistinct
sound, who will get ready for battle?
9So with yourselves, if with your tongue
you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For
you will be speaking into the air.
10‡There are doubtless many different
languages in the world, and none is without meaning,
11but if I do not know the
meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a
foreigner to me.
12†So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of
the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.
14‡For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
15What am
I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing
praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
16†Otherwise, if you
give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider [2]
say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
17For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being
built up.
18†I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
19†Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in
order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.


I'm glad you have a warm church and fellowship with the saints, @rockytopva. As it is written, "Let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another" (Hebrews 10:24-25). Here in South Africa, many churches have become lukewarm, as described in Revelation 3:16, "So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."

It's challenging to find one with an outreach ministry like the Ark in Durban, which aligns with the spirit of James 1:27, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world," similar to the ministry of David Wilkerson.

Shalom
Johann.
And then the Apostle Paul says... Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid not... In otherwords don't disallow it.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Having said all of that...

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30

I would very much recommend everyone receiving whatever Spiritual gifts the Lord would have for you. Even going as far as saying that everyone's Spiritual gifts are unique. Nobody plays musical instruments, preaches, or sings the same, for example. Some more gifted than others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azim
J

Johann

Guest
And then the Apostle Paul says... Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid not... In otherwords don't disallow it.
1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 14:39 do not forbid . . . tongues. Legitimate
languages were limited in purpose and in duration, but as long as this gift was
still active in the early church, it was not to be hindered. But prophecy was the
most desirable gift to be exercised because of its ability to edify, exhort, and
comfort with the truth (v. 3).
Mac

Order (14:26–40)
Two statements in this section go together: “Let all
things be done unto edifying” (1 Cor. 14:26), and,
“Let all things be done decently and in order” (1 Cor.
14:40). When a building is constructed, there must be
a plan, or everything will be in chaos. I know of a
church that had terrible problems building their parsonage, until someone discovered that the lumberyard
had a different set of plans from that of the contractor.
It was no wonder that the materials shipped to the site
did not fit into the building!

The Corinthian church was having special problems with disorder in their public meetings (1 Cor.
11:17–23). The reason is not difficult to determine:
They were using their spiritual gifts to please themselves and not to help their brethren. The key word
was not edification, but exhibition. If you think that
your contribution to the service is more important
than your brother’s contribution, then you will
either be impatient until he finishes, or you will

interrupt him. Add to this problem the difficulties
caused by the “liberated women” in the assembly,
and you can understand why the church experienced

carnal confusion.

First Corinthians 14:26 gives us a cameo picture of
worship in the early church. Each member was invited
to participate as the Lord directed. One would want to
sing a psalm (Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16). Another would be
led to share a doctrine. Someone might have a revelation that would be given in a tongue and then
interpreted. Apart from some kind of God-given order,
there could never be edification.

Note that the tongues speakers were the ones causing the most trouble, so Paul addressed himself to them
and gave several instructions for the church to obey in

their public meetings.

First, speaking and interpreting, along with judging
(evaluating the message) must be done in an orderly
manner (1 Cor. 14:27–33). There must not be more
than three speakers at any one meeting, and each message must be interpreted and evaluated in order. If no
interpreter was present, then the tongues speaker must
keep silent. Paul’s admonitions to the Thessalonian
congregation would apply here: “Quench not the
Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold
fast that which is good” (1 Thess. 5:19–21).

Why were the messages evaluated? To determine
whether the speaker had truly communicated the Word
of God through the Holy Spirit. It was possible for a
speaker, under the control of his own emotions, to
imagine that God was speaking to him and through
him. It was even possible for Satan to counterfeit a
prophetic message (see 2 Cor. 11:13–14). The listeners
would test the message, then, by Old Testament
Scriptures, apostolic tradition, and the personal guidance of the Spirit (“discerning of spirits,” 1 Cor.
12:10).

If while a person is speaking, God gives a revelation to another person, the speaker must be silent
while the new revelation is shared. If God is in charge,
there can be no competition or contradiction in the
messages. If, however, the various speakers are “manufacturing” their messages, there will be confusion
and contradiction.

When the Holy Spirit is in charge, the various ministers will have self-control; for self-control is one fruit
of the Spirit (Gal. 5:23). I once shared a Bible conference with a speaker who had “poor terminal facilities.”
He often went fifteen to twenty minutes past his deadline, which meant, of course, that I had to condense
my messages at the last minute. He excused himself to
me by saying, “You know, when the Holy Spirit takes
over, you can’t worry about clocks!” My reply was to
quote 1 Corinthians 14:32: “And the spirits of the
prophets are subject to the prophets.”
Our own self-control is one of the evidences that
the Spirit is indeed at work in the meeting. One of the
ministries of the Spirit is to bring order out of chaos
(Gen. 1). Confusion comes from Satan, not from God
(James 3:13–18). When the Spirit is leading, the participants are able to minister “one by one” so that the
total impact of God’s message may be received by the
church.

How do we apply this instruction to the church
today since we do not have New Testament prophets,
but we do have the completed Scripture? For one
thing, we must use the Word of God to test every message that we hear, asking the Spirit to guide us. There
are false teachers in the world and we must beware (2
Peter 2; 1 John 4:1–6). But even true teachers and
preachers do not know everything and sometimes
make mistakes (1 Cor. 13:9, 12; James 3:1). Each listener must evaluate the message and apply it to his own
heart.
Our public meetings today are more formal than
those of the early church, so it is not likely that we need
to worry about the order of the service. But in our
more informal meetings, we need to consider one
another and maintain order. I recall being in a testimony meeting where a woman took forty minutes
telling a boring experience and, as a result, destroyed
the spirit of the meeting.

Evangelist D. L. Moody was leading a service and
asked a man to pray. Taking advantage of his opportunity, the man prayed on and on. Sensing that the
prayer was killing the meeting instead of blessing it,
Moody spoke up and said, “While our brother finishes
his prayer, let us sing a hymn!” Those who are in charge
1 Corinthians 14
491
E.The Resurrection—15
of public meetings need to have discernment—and
courage.
Second, the women in the meeting were not to
speak (1 Cor. 14:34–35). Paul had already permitted
the women to pray and prophesy (1 Cor. 11:5), so this
instruction must apply to the immediate context of
evaluating the prophetic messages. It would appear that
the major responsibility for doctrinal purity in the early
church rested on the shoulders of the men, the elders
in particular (1 Tim. 2:11–12).
Wiersbe

And not a word on any outreach ministry @rockytopva or did that part slip your mind? Matt 25 comes to mind immediately!
I can shout in glossalia all I want but that is not indicative I am a Christian, sealed with the Holy Spirit and neglecting the Imperatives to the poor and needy in my community-yes?
 
J

Johann

Guest
Having said all of that...

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30

I would very much recommend everyone receiving whatever Spiritual gifts the Lord would have for you. Even going as far as saying that everyone's Spiritual gifts are unique. Nobody plays musical instruments, preaches, or sings the same, for example. Some more gifted than others.
I have this "feeling" we are not talking TO each other.
 
J

Johann

Guest
No, you are wrong. I quoted Jesus straight away. You on the other recommended another (go). And here you are again confirming it.
Prove me wrong brother, you can't-no offense. Denominational-ism the enemy.
 

Rockerduck

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2022
2,482
2,123
113
70
Marietta, Georgia.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
Do you remember the Civil War at that time? Maybe 1966 is a better year. I enjoyed your story.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have this "feeling" we are not talking TO each other.
I believe the main Christian experiences as three....

Salvation - As easy as confessing the Lord Jesus and believing on that name.
Sanctification - Comes with quality Christian character
Spiritual Gifts - Whatever you can get of God afterwards

The thing that aggravates me personally is when it becomes obvious that there is no sanctification in the experience. I personally do not care what spiritual gifts someone has claimed for themselves, if they are not a quality person all their so-called giftings are useless. So there is a little agreement here. But to imply there are no giftings of God makes Christianity useless. Causing the Apostle Paul to go on to say...

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTW27

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you remember the Civil War at that time? Maybe 1966 is a better year. I enjoyed your story.
What a beautiful thing to get religion in the old Southern way!

It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia. I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
 
J

Johann

Guest
I believe the main Christian experiences as three....

Salvation - As easy as confessing the Lord Jesus and believing on that name.
Sanctification - Comes with quality Christian character
Spiritual Gifts - Whatever you can get of God afterwards

The thing that aggravates me personally is when it becomes obvious that there is no sanctification in the experience. I personally do not care what spiritual gifts someone has claimed for themselves, if they are not a quality person all their so-called giftings are useless. So there is a little agreement here. But to imply there are no giftings of God makes Christianity useless. Causing the Apostle Paul to go on to say...

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18
You are falling in the same trap as most here--one verse theology out of context-

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 14:18 I speak in tongues more than all of you. Paul
emphasized that by writing all of this, he was not condemning genuine tongues
(plural); nor, as some may have thought to accuse him, was he envious of a gift
he did not possess. At that point, he stopped speaking hypothetically about
counterfeit tongue-speaking. He actually had more occasions to use the true gift
than all of them (though we have no record of a specific instance). He knew the
true gift and had used it properly. It is interesting, however, that the NT makes
no mention of Paul’s actually exercising that gift. Nor does Paul in his own

writings make mention of a specific use of it by any Christian.

Can you quote Paul exercising that gift?


Paul's Use of Tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18):

In 1 Corinthians 14:18, Paul states, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you" (ESV). This indicates that Paul did indeed speak in tongues, affirming that he possessed and utilized this spiritual gift.
Genuine vs. Counterfeit Tongues:

MacArthur's commentary emphasizes that Paul is distinguishing between genuine use of the gift of tongues and improper or counterfeit usage. Paul’s instruction throughout 1 Corinthians 14 aims to correct the misuse of tongues in the Corinthian church, ensuring it edifies the church and aligns with orderly worship (1 Corinthians 14:27-28).
Hypothetical vs. Actual Use:

MacArthur notes that although Paul acknowledged his frequent use of tongues, there are no specific New Testament records of him exercising this gift. This is accurate; the New Testament, including Paul's epistles and the Acts of the Apostles, does not document specific instances of Paul speaking in tongues.
Mentions of Tongues in Paul's Writings:

While Paul teaches extensively about spiritual gifts, including tongues, he does not provide personal anecdotes or instances where he or other specific individuals used the gift. This supports MacArthur's assertion that Paul's writings do not mention specific uses of the gift by himself or others.
Supporting Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 14:19: Paul contrasts speaking in tongues with prophecy, emphasizing the importance of intelligibility in the church: "Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue" (ESV).
1 Corinthians 14:27-28: Paul instructs that if anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be done orderly and with interpretation: "If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God" (ESV).
Conclusion
John MacArthur's commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:18 is consistent with scriptural evidence and scholarly interpretation. Paul did affirm his use of the gift of tongues but prioritized prophecy and intelligible teaching within the church for edification. The lack of specific New Testament records of Paul using tongues supports MacArthur's observation.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are falling in the same trap as most here--one verse theology out of context-

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 14:18 I speak in tongues more than all of you. Paul
emphasized that by writing all of this, he was not condemning genuine tongues
(plural); nor, as some may have thought to accuse him, was he envious of a gift
he did not possess. At that point, he stopped speaking hypothetically about
counterfeit tongue-speaking. He actually had more occasions to use the true gift
than all of them (though we have no record of a specific instance). He knew the
true gift and had used it properly. It is interesting, however, that the NT makes
no mention of Paul’s actually exercising that gift. Nor does Paul in his own

writings make mention of a specific use of it by any Christian.

Can you quote Paul exercising that gift?
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve. - Acts 19
 
J

Johann

Guest
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve. - Acts 19
Let me know when you want to discuss 01.40 AM here in South Africa and you want to play round and round the mulberry bush.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
13,086
6,199
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Prove me wrong brother, you can't-no offense. Denominational-ism the enemy.

I did already, by quoting Jesus explaining just how this all works. There is nothing better to be said--but it's not me who said it, I just repeated what He said. Your rejecting it, is you rejecting Him.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,566
2,749
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let me know when you want to discuss 01.40 AM here in South Africa and you want to play round and round the mulberry bush.
I moved here to rural Virginia as a teenager where I would work restaurants, garden, put up hay with the farmers, and then experience Pentecostal Holiness revival during the evenings, where....

1. Jesus was portrayed as a beautiful figure
2. Hopes were laid on seeing him at any time.

I would lay in bed with the kady dids singing, the fireflies lighting up the mountain, open door with the fresh mountain air cooling my body in my grannies clean sheets. And... The Holy Spirit would come down and ask me things like, "Where is all that stress, worry, and bad feelings?" In which I would marvel at such wonderful spirituality. So the Holy Spirit came upon my flesh in Pentecostal Holiness revival. So I would never be able to agree with anything else otherwise.
 
J

Johann

Guest
I did already, by quoting Jesus explaining just how this all works. There is nothing better to be said--but it's not me who said it, I just repeated what He said. Your rejecting it, is you rejecting Him.
Not rejecting my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ--but you misrepresenting Him and His words-quoting a verse here, there, neglecting context, read Miles Coverdale friend, on how to read the Scriptures-in context.
 
J

Johann

Guest
I moved here to rural Virginia as a teenager where I would work restaurants, garden, put up hay with the farmers, and then experience Pentecostal Holiness revival during the evenings, where....

1. Jesus was portrayed as a beautiful figure
2. Hopes were laid on seeing him at any time.

I would lay in bed with the kady dids singing, the fireflies lighting up the mountain, open door with the fresh mountain air cooling my body in my grannies clean sheets. And... The Holy Spirit would come down and ask me things like, "Where is all that stress, worry, and bad feelings?" In which I would marvel at such wonderful spirituality. So the Holy Spirit came upon my flesh in Pentecostal Holiness revival. So I would never be able to agree with anything else otherwise.
Your scripture references are out of context and do you have any scriptures confirming your "experiences?" That needs to be tested in light of what stands written--guess you go on goosebumps with your hair upright-you don't have to agree with me as I don't agree with you at this point in time.