What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?

[Ezra]

But yet you turn from true worship and follow another path not of God..

you dont even know me.. do you know what true worship is ..i think your chesse has slipped off your cracker

 

[JohnDB]

No.my friend, as long as God exists, those are His Commandments, and to set them aside or knowingly reject them puts you on the path to perdition. We must choose what is from God, and not man or his traditions, or we risk our name not being in the book of life and to perish in the lake of fire...

Then explain to me why the "Sabbath Commandment" is singular instead of plural. Because a collective singular doesn't exist in the Hebrew language.

So...
Since you cannot justify the grammar....I know exactly how to explain it....you however will never give up your identity in Law following and gain an identity in the Person who wrote the Law. Well.....never say "never" but the pharisees never gave up their positions either very easily now did they?

 

[BarneyFife]

Then explain to me why the "Sabbath Commandment" is singular instead of plural. Because a collective singular doesn't exist in the Hebrew language.

So...
Since you cannot justify the grammar....I know exactly how to explain it....you however will never give up your identity in Law following and gain an identity in the Person who wrote the Law. Well.....never say "never" but the pharisees never gave up their positions either very easily now did they?

Perhaps you could explain why these ridiculous arguments didn't exist before the Internet was available to common folk.

.

 

[PS95]

No.my friend, as long as God exists, those are His Commandments, and to set them aside or knowingly reject them puts you on the path to perdition. We must choose what is from God, and not man or his traditions, or we risk our name not being in the book of life and to perish in the lake of fire...

No, my friend.
You have been taught wrong.
The Sabbath is EVERY DAY as we REST from our works, in CHRIST. (Heb)
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. (Matt, Mk)
The Sabbath was not created for God but for man. (Mk)
You are judging , new moon, festival days or a Sabbath-- --what we eat too? (Col)
HIS commandments in the NEW Covenant are to believe in Jesus Christ and to love one another. (1 Jo)

Having said that, you are free to keep the Sabbath if you so chose, but it wont save you.
By saying that believers are on the path to perdition-- if we don't choose to, shows us that you are teaching that it is essential for salvation which is wrong. Jesus IS our Sabbath!

 

[BarneyFife]

No, my friend.
You have been taught wrong.
The Sabbath is EVERY DAY as we REST from our works, in CHRIST. (Heb)
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. (Matt, Mk)
The Sabbath was not created for God but for man. (Mk)
You are judging , new moon, festival days or a Sabbath-- --what we eat too? (Col)
HIS commandments in the NEW Covenant are to believe in Jesus Christ and to love one another. (1 Jo)

Having said that, you are free to keep the Sabbath if you so chose, but it wont save you.
By saying that believers are on the path to perdition-- if we don't choose to, shows us that you are teaching that it is essential for salvation which is wrong. Jesus IS our Sabbath!

Odd that this "essential for salvation" business only comes up in objection to the 4th commandment.

.

 

[PS95]

Odd that this "essential for salvation" business only comes up in objection to the 4th commandment.

.

I didnt make it up! If the sabbath is every day how are we not keeping it?!!

 

[BarneyFife]

I didnt make it up! If the sabbath is every day how are we not keeping it?!!

Who said you made it up? I said "comes up."

And it's not every day—it's the seventh day of every week. It's on the calendar. Nearly 100 languages worldwide use some form of the word "Sabbath" for the day we call Saturday. Everyone but Internet Sabbath-objectors know what day the Sabbath is.

None of the neo-new covenant nonsense you hear today about the Sabbath existed just a few decades ago. None of the classic commentaries teach it.

Before the Internet, the argument was always over what day of the week Christians should observe it.

I've been watching the issue evolve into nonsense for decades. Sabbath-objectors themselves can't even agree on how they want to disregard the 4th commandment.

Try to keep your arguments calm, accurate, and consistent. Or not—your choice.

.

 

[PS95]

Who said you made it up? I said "comes up."

LOL! make it up was right! I didnt make up what I had written before..
here..

The Sabbath is EVERY DAY as we REST from our works, in CHRIST. (Heb)
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. (Matt, Mk)
The Sabbath was not created for God but for man. (Mk)
You are judging , new moon, festival days or a Sabbath-- --what we eat too? (Col)
HIS commandments in the NEW Covenant are to believe in Jesus Christ and to love one another. (1 Jo)

Having said that, you are free to keep the Sabbath if you so chose, but it wont save you.
By saying that believers are on the path to perdition-- if we don't choose to, shows us that you are teaching that it is essential for salvation which is wrong. Jesus IS our Sabbath!

And it's not every day—it's the seventh day of every week. It's on the calendar. Nearly 100 languages worldwide use some form of the word "Sabbath" for the day we call Saturday. Everyone but Internet Sabbath-objectors know what day the Sabbath is.

No. it is every day now. when we REST from our works. That is what the bible says, not me.

None of the neo-new covenant nonsense you hear today about the Sabbath existed just a few decades ago. None of the classic commentaries teach it.

IDK what that means. What i've written has been known for 2000 yrs. You guys began in the late 1800s?

Before the Internet, the argument was always over what day of the week Christians should observe it.

I have heard that some people think sunday is a new sabbath day, but that's wrong.

I've been watching the issue evolve into nonsense for decades. Sabbath-objectors themselves can't even agree on how they want to disregard the 4th commandment.

Try to keep your arguments calm, accurate, and consistent. Or not—your choice.

.

I admit to not reading all of this thread. It's really long. But, I would think that what I wrote is a common theme, cuz as I said, I didnt make it up. it's from the scriptures. If it wasn't I would have been a 7th day sabbath keeper, as well. No one taught me what I wrote. It was soley from scripture.

I only lose my cool with JWs. It's called righteous anger.

 

[BarneyFife]

LOL! make it up was right! I didnt make up what I had written before..
here..

The Sabbath is EVERY DAY as we REST from our works, in CHRIST. (Heb)
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. (Matt, Mk)
The Sabbath was not created for God but for man. (Mk)
You are judging , new moon, festival days or a Sabbath-- --what we eat too? (Col)
HIS commandments in the NEW Covenant are to believe in Jesus Christ and to love one another. (1 Jo)

Having said that, you are free to keep the Sabbath if you so chose, but it wont save you.
By saying that believers are on the path to perdition-- if we don't choose to, shows us that you are teaching that it is essential for salvation which is wrong. Jesus IS our Sabbath!

No. it is every day now. when we REST from our works. That is what the bible says, not me.

IDK what that means. What i've written has been known for 2000 yrs. You guys began in the late 1800s?

I have heard that some people think sunday is a new sabbath day, but that's wrong.

I admit to not reading all of this thread. It's really long. But, I would think that what I wrote is a common theme, cuz as I said, I didnt make it up. it's from the scriptures. If it wasn't I would have been a 7th day sabbath keeper, as well. No one taught me what I wrote. It was soley from scripture.

I only lose my cool with JWs. It's called righteous anger.

I'm just noticing all the exclamation points and boldface. I'd hate to see what it looks like when you get riled.

So, you came to the conclusion all by yourself, from Scripture, that the Sabbath is every day.

When did you make this discovery? As soon as you became a Christian? And, if so, when was that?

Btw, "us guys" were made aware of the truth concerning the 4th commandment by the Seventh Day Baptists, who got it in the 1600s from the long, uninterrupted line of Sabbath-keeping Christians extending back to the early church.

.

 

[PS95]

I'm just noticing all the exclamation points and boldface. I'd hate to see what it looks like when you get riled.

So, you came to the conclusion all by yourself, from Scripture, that the Sabbath is every day.

When did you make this discovery? As soon as you became a Christian? And, if so, when was that?

Btw, "us guys" were made aware of the truth concerning the 4th commandment by the Seventh Day Baptists, who got it in the 1600s from the long, uninterrupted line of Sabbath-keeping Christians extending back to the early church.

.

Oh I'm sorry. Habit. I suppose.
Yes I did, but I'm going to say I had help from the Holy Spirit. It was many many years ago.
Oh yeah, I have heard of 7th day Baptists. You added in that all the way back to the early church. hahaha I see what you did there.
I would feel so much better if you understood what the bible says about it and chose to keep it, rather than complusory which causes you to think that we are breaking the law.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes I did, but I'm going to say I had help from the Holy Spirit. It was many many years ago.

No idea how many?

Oh yeah, I have heard of 7th day Baptists. You added in that all the way back to the early church. hahaha I see what you did there.

I have no idea what you mean here.

I would feel so much better if you understood what the bible says about it and chose to keep it, rather than complusory which causes you to think that we are breaking the law.

I find no part of the ten commandments to be any more compulsory than another part.

34 years of studying the subject tends to make for a fair amount knowledge as to what the Bible says about the law, in general, and the Sabbath, in particular.

But if you'd like to add something of which I might not be aware, I'd be happy to consider it.

.

 

[PS95]

No idea how many?

I'm unsure as to why that matters. but a guess would be approx -30? I dont recall the exact year. I had heard Herbert Armstrong on TV and I began to wonder why he felt that way, so I took to the bible to see if it was addressed directly, and it was.

I have no idea what you mean here.

Well now I dont either and have to scroll up to see what I said..... brb..
, Ok-- I said I have heard of 7th day baptists, and I like how you added in that sabbath keepers went all the way back to the early church. I am not aware of that at all. But, I suppose a group somewhere may have.

I find no part of the ten commandments to be any more compulsory than another part.

All commands..

34 years of studying the subject tends to make for a fair amount knowledge as to what the Bible says about the law, in general, and the Sabbath, in particular.

But if you'd like to add something of which I might not be aware, I'd be happy to consider it.

It is a long time. No, I have nothing to add to what I have shown you in the scriptures. We arent under the law but under grace, otherwise we fall from grace. We keep the commands through love, and sabbath keeping is daily also now, and is resting from our works. I hope that made sense. It's what the bible says. Why would I disagree with that? I think it's beautiful.

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm unsure as to why that matters. but a guess would be approx -30? I dont recall the exact year. I had heard Herbert Armstrong on TV and I began to wonder why he felt that way, so I took to the bible to see if it was addressed directly, and it was.

Forgive me, but it kinda sounds like you had a little help from Herbert Armstrong, whose work was largely reactionary. Not that Christianity on the whole differs much from that model today.

We arent under the law but under grace, otherwise we fall from grace.

I found out in the Spring of 1990 that I'd been deceived about law and grace for over 20 years.

We keep the commands through love, and sabbath keeping is daily also now, and is resting from our works. I hope that made sense.

I've heard it hundreds and hundreds of times, and I'm afraid it still doesn't make sense. I can't understand why so many folks are determined to attach this kind of convoluted theory to the 4th commandment alone. There is no reversal or modification of the 4th commandment, exactly as it reads, taught anywhere in the Bible. This stuff simply didn't exist 50 years ago.

When I was a child, 50+ years ago I was taught at church, without qualification, that the ten commandments were the moral code for God's people, and everything I saw on TV, learned at school, etc., validated that. Even criminals in prison knew it. The only thing different than what I believe today about that was that the Sabbath was observed on Sunday and not as strictly as was taught in the Old Testament.

I've looked for and asked for literary or other recorded evidence of anyone teaching the "every day Sabbath" theory in place of a literal weekly Sabbath predating the '90s, and have found none—absolutely zero.

So I'm faced with choosing whether or not to believe that—whether you choose Saturday or Sunday—from the time of the early church to the mid-to-late 20th century... The church had it all wrong.

It's what the bible says.

It may be what the Bible is loosely interpreted to say by an increasing number of folks, but it is not what the Bible actually says.

Many of these same folks would be up in arms if someone suggested the adoption of any other such revolutionary doctrine based on a similar structure of Scripture evidence.

The fact is that the Sabbath is easy to dismiss because the world—and now even the church—makes it so easy to do so.

It is the same with stealing, killing, fornicating, etc. The definitions of these offenses become more and more loose with every passing generation.

I have no interest in judging anyone else's intentions. I haven't any authority or ability to do so, anyway. I'm a watchman on the wall of Zion. And we are living in staggeringly dangerous times.

Nice chatting with you.

.

 

[PS95]

Forgive me, but it kinda sounds like you had a little help from Herbert Armstrong, whose work was largely reactionary. Not that Christianity on the whole differs much from that model today.

huh? I'm totally confused as to how Armstrong helped me. He taught what you are saying. He was mistaken too, biblically.

I found out in the Spring of 1990 that I'd been deceived about law and grace for over 20 years.
I've heard it hundreds and hundreds of times, and I'm afraid it still doesn't make sense. I can't understand why so many folks are determined to attach this kind of convoluted theory to the 4th commandment alone. There is no reversal or modification of the 4th commandment, exactly as it reads, taught anywhere in the Bible. This stuff simply didn't exist 50 years ago.

It is not a convoluted theory, barney. I know it may seem that way to you. It isnt simple to grasp at first. Took me days of prayer. I am unsure as to why you can't see what the scriptures say about it. You accuse us of not keeping a day-- and we are telling you that we keep it daily! when we rest from our works!
Truly rest. rest in His finished work. Pray about it and keep praying about it.
I am going to be bold and say that if anyone knows your heart it's the Lord, and if somewhere in your heart there is a place that feels you must keep the day, and we who don't are sons of perdition or whatever--- ask the Lord to show you if that true of us.
Ask Him. keep asking Him. Wait on Him.. Ask Him to make you free-- free resting in Him every day.
Ask Him to open the scriptures about it to you. Tell Him how you look at us who see it differently. Tell Him you dont want to judge others wrongly. That's what I would do. That's what I have done many times. I allow Him to teach me. I can't always trust man- that's for sure. He is our teacher, and He teaches me in such a way that I am surer than sure. He is amazing!!

When I was a child, 50+ years ago I was taught at church, without qualification, that the ten commandments were the moral code for God's people, and everything I saw on TV, learned at school, etc., validated that. Even criminals in prison knew it. The only thing different than what I believe today about that was that the Sabbath was observed on Sunday and not as strictly as was taught in the Old Testament.I've looked for and asked for literary or other recorded evidence of anyone teaching the "every day Sabbath" theory in place of a literal weekly Sabbath predating the '90s, and have found none—absolutely zero.
So I'm faced with choosing whether or not to believe that—whether you choose Saturday or Sunday—from the time of the early church to the mid-to-late 20th century... The church had it all wrong.

I know the catholic church taught the 10 commandments as the thing to follow and they probably still do--, but it's not teaching what grace is-not according to the scriptures. I can't really say for anyone else though how they viewed it.
It's not a law written in stone as commandments were. It's the law written on on our hearts. As odd as it may seem and I understand what you are saying- it is just that one command-- but it is excepted by the scriptures by explanation, as I've shown you. If it was not, I would keep a day too. But it is.
If you feel better keeping the day you are free to. It's just that it's not mandatory now to keep A DAY, and the mistaken idea that it is, causes you to look at others with a judgmental heart. You can say it's not true, but if you are true to yourself you know it is. It HAS to be.
Just look at the sermon on the mount!! We have all broken the law. Jesus made it so hard that no one can escape that conviction. Jesus made every command more so. Agree? He extended them all. murder is anger, adultery is a thought and so on. ...
The Sabbath was also extended to every day as we REST from trying so hard to keep the law. Everyday we rest in HIM. It is beautiful. It's by His spirit that we live now. It's not a day to rest. It's a life to rest in HIs work, Not ours. He works In us.

It may be what the Bible is loosely interpreted to say by an increasing number of folks, but it is not what the Bible actually says.

Many of these same folks would be up in arms if someone suggested the adoption of any other such revolutionary doctrine based on a similar structure of Scripture evidence.

The fact is that the Sabbath is easy to dismiss because the world—and now even the church—makes it so easy to do so.

Thats unfair, Barney. The bible teaches what it teaches and although there isn't a whole lot about it, it IS there, and says what it says and it fits so perfectly that the Lord of the Sabbath reveals the true meaning of it to us!! I know it is confusing for you , but pray about it. Just pray about it and keep praying.

It is the same with stealing, killing, fornicating, etc. The definitions of these offenses become more and more loose with every passing generation.

I havent heard this in the churches. ? the world, well what do we expect? ugh
I do recall JW in a watchtower mag many years ago saying that if a husband has sex with animals that it is not adultery. HUH? I hope they changed that one.......

I have no interest in judging anyone else's intentions. I haven't any authority or ability to do so, anyway. I'm a watchman on the wall of Zion. And we are living in staggeringly dangerous times.

Nice chatting with you.

.

We are in dangerous times and it wont get better, but that's ok. We dont have to fear. It's like biblical times- we are going backwards for sure.
Just pray about it. Did I mention to pray about the sabbath?..:) I will pray for you about this too It was very nice to talk with you, as well.

 

[BarneyFife]

huh? I'm totally confused as to how Armstrong helped me. He taught what you are saying. He was mistaken too, biblically.

Oops, sorry, I misread your post. I thought that sounded kinda weird.

It is not a convoluted theory, barney. I know it may seem that way to you. It isnt simple to grasp at first. Took me days of prayer. I am unsure as to why you can't see what the scriptures say about it. You accuse us of not keeping a day-- and we are telling you that we keep it daily! when we rest from our works!
Truly rest. rest in His finished work. Pray about it and keep praying about it.
I am going to be bold and say that if anyone knows your heart it's the Lord, and if somewhere in your heart there is a place that feels you must keep the day, and we who don't are sons of perdition or whatever--- ask the Lord to show you if that true of us.
Ask Him. keep asking Him. Wait on Him.. Ask Him to make you free-- free resting in Him every day.
Ask Him to open the scriptures about it to you. Tell Him how you look at us who see it differently. Tell Him you dont want to judge others wrongly. That's what I would do. That's what I have done many times. I allow Him to teach me. I can't always trust man- that's for sure. He is our teacher, and He teaches me in such a way that I am surer than sure. He is amazing!!

I know the catholic church taught the 10 commandments as the thing to follow and they probably still do--, but it's not teaching what grace is-not according to the scriptures. I can't really say for anyone else though how they viewed it.
It's not a law written in stone as commandments were. It's the law written on on our hearts. As odd as it may seem and I understand what you are saying- it is just that one command-- but it is excepted by the scriptures by explanation, as I've shown you. If it was not, I would keep a day too. But it is.
If you feel better keeping the day you are free to. It's just that it's not mandatory now to keep A DAY, and the mistaken idea that it is, causes you to look at others with a judgmental heart. You can say it's not true, but if you are true to yourself you know it is. It HAS to be.
Just look at the sermon on the mount!! We have all broken the law. Jesus made it so hard that no one can escape that conviction. Jesus made every command more so. Agree? He extended them all. murder is anger, adultery is a thought and so on. ...
The Sabbath was also extended to every day as we REST from trying so hard to keep the law. Everyday we rest in HIM. It is beautiful. It's by His spirit that we live now. It's not a day to rest. It's a life to rest in HIs work, Not ours. He works In us.

Thats unfair, Barney. The bible teaches what it teaches and although there isn't a whole lot about it, it IS there, and says what it says and it fits so perfectly that the Lord of the Sabbath reveals the true meaning of it to us!! I know it is confusing for you , but pray about it. Just pray about it and keep praying.

I havent heard this in the churches. ? the world, well what do we expect? ugh
I do recall JW in a watchtower mag many years ago saying that if a husband has sex with animals that it is not adultery. HUH? I hope they changed that one.......

We are in dangerous times and it wont get better, but that's ok. We dont have to fear. It's like biblical times- we are going backwards for sure.
Just pray about it. Did I mention to pray about the sabbath?..:) I will pray for you about this too It was very nice to talk with you, as well.

I've said that I judge no one. You insist that I have a judgmental heart. I've directed no such accusations at you personally.

I merely state the plain teaching of the Bible that no change has been made to the 4th commandment, and that the texts that are urged as having done so are thereby misrepresented.

I can't help that rejecting or opposing a theory or interpretation is always perceived as an accusation or condemnation.

.

 

[PS95]

Oops, sorry, I misread your post. I thought that sounded kinda weird.



I've said that I judge no one. You insist that I have a judgmental heart. I've directed no such accusations at you personally.

I merely state the plain teaching of the Bible that no change has been made to the 4th commandment, and that the texts that are urged as having done so are thereby misrepresented.

I can't help that rejecting or opposing a theory or interpretation is always perceived as an accusation or condemnation.

.

C'mon barney. you must agree with your church and your brother, Hobie? Either way it's ok with me. I am not troubled. I only asked you to pray about it. It's up to you though.
I'm done here. i'm not looking for a reply- was nice to meetya
time to hit the sack for me!

 

[JohnDB]

Perhaps you could explain why these ridiculous arguments didn't exist before the Internet was available to common folk.

.

They have ALWAYS existed....perhaps you ignored them.

 

[BarneyFife]

They have ALWAYS existed....

Prove it.

No one else has been able to.

.

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm late to this party, but... (hopefully fashionably late) - LOL
My replies are to posts #1 and #2.

I was asked the question on another forum, "What will happen to all those Christians who don't worship on the Sabbath?" I gave the following answer... there are some verses that give a clear answer. Here is what best applies....
Acts 17:24-30
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

When we unknowingly make a honest mistake, Gods grace is sufficient and He winks at our ignorance. But when we in all fullness of understanding knowingly do it.......

Doesn't really answer the topic question. Except as an inference to doctrinal conjecture.

We need to be straightforward when it comes to Gods truth and not rebel against it, as we see what Samuel said to King Saul...

Yes. But you need to be straightforward as well.

I understand Sabbath-keeping as an option for Christian believers, but certainly not as a requirement.
If it was a requirement, then consequences would apply. But since it isn't... rejection of the Sabbath is within our rights.

As I understand it, the Sabbath was given to Israel alone through Moses. This happens in Exodus chapter 16 with the giving of manna (bread from heaven), which was to be collected for six days, but the seven day was a day of Sabbath rest. The Israelites struggled to understand this completely new concept. They went out on the seventh day expecting to find manna.

A Sabbath command was then included in the Ten Commandments given in Exodus chapters 20 and Deuteronomy chapter 5. Again, given to Israel alone through Moses.

So, for whom should consequences apply?
- To those whom it was given, or...
- to those whom it was not given.

Deuteronomy 5:3 NIV
It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant,
but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths.
This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come,
so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

]

 

[JohnDB]

Prove it.

No one else has been able to.

.

Oh they have....ever since Paul said to. But due to the lack of proper hermeneutics and the instructions of Hebrew linguistics Laurie White was able to fool the same people that Miller did.
And even the briefest of glances at her writings proves that the woman had some severe mental health issues that are obvious to everyone today. (Laurie White is the instigator of the SDA movement)

The four Gospels and Paul's writings (as well as Hebrews) explain very clearly that where morals are required ritualistic practices are not acceptable....and Saturday assembly is not wrong but not any more right than Sunday services.