Leaders That Don't Support Good Works or Overcoming Sin

[Johann]

It is the old man who is crucifed with Christ. Self is to be denied. They are not the same. You are the Buddhist. We are commanded to love self and others likewise.

Elwell writes that…

The concern of Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:1-5:22 has been that the lives of his readers be sanctified more and more. It is fitting, therefore, that he should in the end pray once again for their complete sanctification (Gk. holoteles, found only here in the NT, means “entirely,” “completely”). Sanctification is a process which begins with conversion and will be completed only when “perfection comes” (1 Cor. 13:10). (Elwell, W. A.. Vol. 3: Evangelical Commentary on the Bible. Baker Book House)

Sanctify (37)(hagiazo from hagios = holy, set apart) means to set apart for God, to sanctify, to make a person or thing (in the OT altars, days, priests, etc were set apart) the opposite of koinos, which means profane or common.

Hiebert - The primary meaning of sanctify is "to set apart, to consecrate," but it also carries the thought of the resultant holiness of character in the consecrated. The note of holiness was already sounded in 1Thes 3:13 and 4:3-8. (Hiebert, D. Edmond: 1 & 2 Thessalonians: BMH Book. 1996)

Sanctify is in the aorist tense which usually speaks of a point in time, but which in this context according to Vine speaks "not an act begun and accomplished in a moment, but a “process seen in perspective,” and so contemplated as a complete act. This is the case also with the word “keep,” tereo, in 1Ti 6:14 (that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ), where a momentary act is out of the question. These passages are complementary one to the other, here the divine side is presented, there the human, the action in each terminating only with the coming of the Lord, cp. Php 1:6 (note). Since those addressed were already saints, i.e., “sanctified ones” (see note on “saints,” 1Th 3:13 (note), and 2Th 2:13), the apostle must be understood here to desire for them the continuous and complete realization of this calling, that by His power they might be enabled to live consistently with the fact that every part of their complex being belonged to God, cp. Ep 5:25, 26, 27-notes Ep 5:25; 26; 27 (Collected writings of W. E. Vine)

Hiebert agrees with Vine noting that "Some insist that the aorist here points to the crisis experience of entire sanctification," but it is generally accepted that the action is best viewed as constative (An aorist tense verb that, along with other contextual features, presents the action simply, in summary, or as a whole. Also called complexive, comprehensive, global, historical, punctiliar, simple or summary), a process of sanctification occurring during this present life and viewed as consummated at the return of Christ.

Even those who insist upon the meaning of an initial crisis experience stress that it must be followed by a continuing process of sanctification. The completion of that process is in view here. (Hiebert, D. Edmond: 1 & 2 Thessalonians: BMH Book. 1996)

Wuest writes that hagiazo does not mean…

merely “to set apart,” but in the case of the pagan word, “to set apart for the gods,” and in the case of the Christian word “to set apart for God.” The worshipper of the pagan god acquired the character of that pagan god and the religious ceremonies connected with its worship. The Greek temple at Corinth housed a large number of harlots who were connected with the worship of the Greek god. Thus, the set-apartness of the Greek worshipper was in character licentious, totally depraved, and sinful.

The believer in the Lord Jesus is set apart for God by the Holy Spirit, out of the First Adam with the latter’s sin and condemnation, into the Last Adam with the latter’s righteousness and life (cf 1Cor 15:22,45). Thus, the worshipper of the God of the Bible partakes of the character of the God for Whom he is set apart. This is positional sanctification, an act of God performed at the moment a sinner puts his faith in the Lord Jesus (1Cor 1:2). The work of the Holy Spirit in the yielded saint, in which He sets the believer apart for God in his experience, by eliminating sin from his life and producing His fruit (cf notes Galatians 5:22; 23), a process which goes on constantly throughout the believer’s life, is called progressive sanctification (1Thes 5:23). When our Lord sanctifies Himself, He sets Himself apart for God as the Sacrifice for sin (John 17:19; He 10:7-note).

When man sanctifies God, “the word denotes that manner of treatment on the part of man which corresponds with the holiness of God, and which springs from faith, trust, and fear” (see 1Pe 3:15-note)” (
Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: Eerdmans

Hagiazo primarily conveys the idea of separation from and consecration to the service of deity in secular Greek but to God Almighty in the Biblical context. Believers are to separate themselves from profane things and dedicate themselves wholly to their Holy God. As alluded to in the notes on the verses that use hagiazo, there are 3 aspects of sanctification…

(1) Past (positional) Sanctification - This refers to the time of our initial salvation, which was wrought by the atoning work of Christ, at which time we were clothed with His righteousness, we were given a new nature and we were freed from the power of sin and death. This a one time event, never to be repeated.

(2) Present (progressive, experiential) Sanctification - This aspect of sanctification proceeds from past sanctification and deals with present Christian living. It is the process in which believers are working out their salvation by the Spirit’s power, who sets us more and more apart from the world and more and more conformed to the image of Christ. This is the aspect to which Paul's prayer in 1Thes 5:23 relates.

(3) Future (ultimate, perfect) Sanctification - Glorification when God makes believers free of even the desire of sin, free of the fallen flesh nature, and joined with our transformed, glorified bodies for all eternity.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 Commentary | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

J.

 

[Hepzibah]

@Johann brother, I think you need to take a break here. It seems to me that you are being triggered and having a complex-trauma fueled 'fight' response because you strongly disagree with me. Debate can only take place correctly and in a godly manner, if the two parties show each respect, love and patience to each other and allow others to differ without becoming angry..

As I have said, I do not get into text bashing, when the whole of scripture is overlooked, and I am well aware of the hot dispute between Bible scholars on the interpretation of the Greek aoris verb.

The whole issue for me is around whether one is adding doctrines to what was accepted in the very early years of the church, and 'progressive' anything is included here, along with the idea of a gradual sanctification till death.

There is no doubt at all that the early church all agreed on the pattern I have already laid that full or entire sanctification happens before death and the soon the better. I have seen no evidence for the other view in church life and after 50 years of it, it is my experience that when Christians get to their later age - 60's 70's and 80's they get more crabby and less in control of their emotions not more sanctified. And none witness to how wonderful that golden age of gradual sanctification is. No the testimonies we hear are of have a huge change at conversion, and after that they are 'a work in progress'. I just see decline.

But getting back to the early church, many have studied them in depth, so they thought and come out with entirely different theologies for example Augustine, Luther and Wesley. The problem here is that it is necessary to understand their mindset first. John Wesley missed a good bit about their teaching (I am not a Wesleyan) but that could be because it is just now in the modern age that a lot of their writings have been translated and still reams of them to come. It is a mistake that you can just do a few weeks reading of them.

So forgive me but I will only acknowledge those who have taken the length of time necessary to understand how doctrines have been added especially since Augustine.

So this idea of 'progressive sanctification' is the truth turned on its head. We should not be surprised to find it so common in these times, as it is irrational to think that the movement of time which has degraded most things especially the last 100 years or more so since the spirit of rebellion entered in fully at the French Revolution.

Why think it has not happened in the church also? Why think that the enemy has not invaded into ALL factions?

I am safe accepting the authority of those in early years who had reached ES/Theosis themselves, (so long as they chime with scripture) and who spoke from the Spirit, especially when I found the same walk in myself. Oops there goes that self word again who is supposed to be dead. Loving my neighbour as myself must mean I have to put him to death as well.

Peace and joy brother. Love you.

 

[Hepzibah]

Sorry @marks I will get back to you ASAP.

 

[Lizbeth]

@Johann brother, I think you need to take a break here. It seems to me that you are being triggered and having a complex-trauma fueled 'fight' response because you strongly disagree with me. Debate can only take place correctly and in a godly manner, if the two parties show each respect, love and patience to each other and allow others to differ without becoming angry..

As I have said, I do not get into text bashing, when the whole of scripture is overlooked, and I am well aware of the hot dispute between Bible scholars on the interpretation of the Greek aoris verb.

The whole issue for me is around whether one is adding doctrines to what was accepted in the very early years of the church, and 'progressive' anything is included here, along with the idea of a gradual sanctification till death.

There is no doubt at all that the early church all agreed on the pattern I have already laid that full or entire sanctification happens before death and the soon the better. I have seen no evidence for the other view in church life and after 50 years of it, it is my experience that when Christians get to their later age - 60's 70's and 80's they get more crabby and less in control of their emotions not more sanctified. And none witness to how wonderful that golden age of gradual sanctification is. No the testimonies we hear are of have a huge change at conversion, and after that they are 'a work in progress'. I just see decline.

But getting back to the early church, many have studied them in depth, so they thought and come out with entirely different theologies for example Augustine, Luther and Wesley. The problem here is that it is necessary to understand their mindset first. John Wesley missed a good bit about their teaching (I am not a Wesleyan) but that could be because it is just now in the modern age that a lot of their writings have been translated and still reams of them to come. It is a mistake that you can just do a few weeks reading of them.

So forgive me but I will only acknowledge those who have taken the length of time necessary to understand how doctrines have been added especially since Augustine.

So this idea of 'progressive sanctification' is the truth turned on its head. We should not be surprised to find it so common in these times, as it is irrational to think that the movement of time which has degraded most things especially the last 100 years or more so since the spirit of rebellion entered in fully at the French Revolution.

Why think it has not happened in the church also? Why think that the enemy has not invaded into ALL factions?

I am safe accepting the authority of those in early years who had reached ES/Theosis themselves, (so long as they chime with scripture) and who spoke from the Spirit, especially when I found the same walk in myself. Oops there goes that self word again who is supposed to be dead. Loving my neighbour as myself must mean I have to put him to death as well.

Peace and joy brother. Love you.

There is so much to consider with everything, my aging brain is spinning in my head. I'm just trying to take everything in, in my slow percolating way, and I'm hampered by a poor memory that can't seem to hold onto too much at a time. In any case I think it's good for all of us to remember that we only know in part.....and there is wisdom where it says "if we think we know we do not yet know as we ought". And also we are to "not go beyond what is written."

I don't tale "loving your neighbour as yourself" as an explicit command to love self, but it is only speaking along the lines of "do to others as you would have others do unto to". My heart understands what it is saying even if my brain isn't up to putting it into human words in a way that is entirely spot-on accurate. I'm wondering what does it mean where it says a corn of wheat must be planted in the ground and die in order to be able to produce a (spiritual) crop. This was in context of Jesus' death on the cross...which is the "Way" that we are to follow.

In this post you seem to be arguing against progressive sanctification....?....unless I'm misunderstanding something, because I thought you said earlier you agree with the idea of both progressive as well as instantaneous sanctification. I do see the concept of growth all over the scriptures. Faith growing from a mustard seed into a large tree. The idea of "adding to your faith...."......and growing up into the Head.......etc.

Still wondering how to understand entire sanctification.......nobody seems to be able to remain in that state permanently so far that I've heard.........and it makes me wonder about the scripture that speaks of us "tasting the powers of the world to come." Enoch walked with God and was taken up to heaven....later the same thing happened to Elijah.......it makes me wonder how we are to understand that and also wonder if that is what happens if someone remains in that condition of entire sanctification permanently instead of just tasting/experiencing it at various times or seasons. It speaks to me possibly of "rapture".

Anyway, just a few thoughts from the peanut gallery....not really saying anything conclusive here.

 

[Johann]

There is so much to consider with everything, my aging brain is spinning in my head. I'm just trying to take everything in, in my slow percolating way, and I'm hampered by a poor memory that can't seem to hold onto too much at a time. In any case I think it's good for all of us to remember that we only know in part.....and there is wisdom where it says "if we think we know we do not yet know as we ought". And also we are to "not go beyond what is written."

I don't tale "loving your neighbour as yourself" as an explicit command to love self, but it is only speaking along the lines of "do to others as you would have others do unto to". My heart understands what it is saying even if my brain isn't up to putting it into human words in a way that is entirely spot-on accurate. I'm wondering what does it mean where it says a corn of wheat must be planted in the ground and die in order to be able to produce a (spiritual) crop. This was in context of Jesus' death on the cross...which is the "Way" that we are to follow.

In this post you seem to be arguing against progressive sanctification....?....unless I'm misunderstanding something, because I thought you said earlier you agree with the idea of both progressive as well as instantaneous sanctification. I do see the concept of growth all over the scriptures. Faith growing from a mustard seed into a large tree. The idea of "adding to your faith...."......and growing up into the Head.......etc.

Still wondering how to understand entire sanctification.......nobody seems to be able to remain in that state permanently so far that I've heard.........and it makes me wonder about the scripture that speaks of us "tasting the powers of the world to come." Enoch walked with God and was taken up to heaven....later the same thing happened to Elijah.......it makes me wonder how we are to understand that and also wonder if that is what happens if someone remains in that condition of entire sanctification permanently instead of just tasting/experiencing it at various times or seasons. It speaks to me possibly of "rapture".

Anyway, just a few thoughts from the peanut gallery....not really saying anything conclusive here.

You said enough @Lizbeth and correct-one moment the member agrees to progressive sanctification and then not-the early church fathers her "teachers" if you will.
Another member have me confused with Catholic's.
J.

 

[Hepzibah]

There is so much to consider with everything, my aging brain is spinning in my head. I'm just trying to take everything in, in my slow percolating way, and I'm hampered by a poor memory that can't seem to hold onto too much at a time. In any case I think it's good for all of us to remember that we only know in part.....and there is wisdom where it says "if we think we know we do not yet know as we ought". And also we are to "not go beyond what is written."

I don't tale "loving your neighbour as yourself" as an explicit command to love self, but it is only speaking along the lines of "do to others as you would have others do unto to". My heart understands what it is saying even if my brain isn't up to putting it into human words in a way that is entirely spot-on accurate. I'm wondering what does it mean where it says a corn of wheat must be planted in the ground and die in order to be able to produce a (spiritual) crop. This was in context of Jesus' death on the cross...which is the "Way" that we are to follow.

In this post you seem to be arguing against progressive sanctification....?....unless I'm misunderstanding something, because I thought you said earlier you agree with the idea of both progressive as well as instantaneous sanctification. I do see the concept of growth all over the scriptures. Faith growing from a mustard seed into a large tree. The idea of "adding to your faith...."......and growing up into the Head.......etc.

Still wondering how to understand entire sanctification.......nobody seems to be able to remain in that state permanently so far that I've heard.........and it makes me wonder about the scripture that speaks of us "tasting the powers of the world to come." Enoch walked with God and was taken up to heaven....later the same thing happened to Elijah.......it makes me wonder how we are to understand that and also wonder if that is what happens if someone remains in that condition of entire sanctification permanently instead of just tasting/experiencing it at various times or seasons. It speaks to me possibly of "rapture".

Anyway, just a few thoughts from the peanut gallery....not really saying anything conclusive here.

Hi sister. I understand about the poor memory. Do you take b vitamins?

I agree that sanctification is also a process that begins when we come to Christ. It is a matter of being purified. It seems that once one reached a certain stage, they are then trained in walking in the Spirit but then they reach the full stature of Christ and remain in the blessing.

King James Bible Rev 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

But this is advanced teaching and one needs to get to the place first where they are entirely submitted to God. The Holy Spirit convicts us of this need if we are genuine seekers.

 

[Lizbeth]

Hi sister. I understand about the poor memory. Do you take b vitamins?

I agree that sanctification is also a process that begins when we come to Christ. It is a matter of being purified. It seems that once one reached a certain stage, they are then trained in walking in the Spirit but then they reach the full stature of Christ and remain in the blessing.

King James Bible Rev 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

But this is advanced teaching and one needs to get to the place first where they are entirely submitted to God. The Holy Spirit convicts us of this need if we are genuine seekers.

Hi...yes thanks, I take B vitamins and other supplements too. Have tinnitus which has worsened the last few years. Still seem to have my sanity though (as far as I can tell, lol). I'm holding onto God's grace being sufficient. :)

Yes there is that Rev 3 scripture, thanks for reminding me. Was thinking of the one that says He blesses our going in and going out, but yes, it does seem there can potentially be a no more going out, as long as we rightly understand it.

Amen, I do believe there needs to be a full submission or surrender of our life to the Lord......as in "whole burnt offerings".

 

[Lizbeth]

You said enough @Lizbeth and correct-one moment the member agrees to progressive sanctification and then not-the early church fathers her "teachers" if you will.
Another member have me confused with Catholic's.
J.

So important to be taught by the Holy Spirit and word of God........He leads us into all truth. I think the writings of others can be a witness but we must be careful.......we don't always even fully understand our experiences.....eg, even Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or out of it.

I don't know how anyone could mistake you for a Catholic brother, lol.

 

[Hepzibah]

Hi...yes thanks, I take B vitamins and other supplements too. Have tinnitus which has worsened the last few years. Still seem to have my sanity though (as far as I can tell, lol). I'm holding onto God's grace being sufficient. :)

Yes there is that Rev 3 scripture, thanks for reminding me. Was thinking of the one that says He blesses our going in and going out, but yes, it does seem there can potentially be a no more going out, as long as we rightly understand it.

Amen, I do believe there needs to be a full submission or surrender of our life to the Lord......as in "whole burnt offerings".

Often b vit multis do not contain enough thiamine b1for better brain function. I take extra. Tinnitus is a sign of some deficiency I think.

We sometimes think that we have fully submitted till a crisis comes along as in the life of Wesley.

 

[Johann]

So important to be taught by the Holy Spirit and word of God........He leads us into all truth. I think the writings of others can be a witness but we must be careful.......we don't always even fully understand our experiences.....eg, even Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or out of it.

I don't know how anyone could mistake you for a Catholic brother, lol.

I have decided not to be online for hours on end, wasting my time.
God bless- and take them vits! Light exercises WILL help you.
J.

 

[GTW27]

So important to be taught by the Holy Spirit and word of God........He leads us into all truth. I think the writings of others can be a witness but we must be careful.......we don't always even fully understand our experiences.....eg, even Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or out of it.

I don't know how anyone could mistake you for a Catholic brother, lol.

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. What a man believes in his heart so he is. I believe you need to speak positive affirmations about your self. I am 65 and my memory is better because of belief. What we believe and speak is powerful. Paul said, "I know a man" He did not say that he was called up to the third heaven. I do not know why that the church has adopted this to be true. For example I can say, I know a man that was called up to the third heaven and when he got there he started to move forward and was met by three men. They were standing side by side. When this man took his next step forward these Three moved forward at the same time which caused this man to be thrown backward. At this the man woke up. I knew this man, and this a true story of a dream he had. I am not this man, but I know that this man got corrupted by the enemy, and he arrived at a place that was forbidden for him to enter. But I am in full agreement for us to be taught by The Holy Spirit and The Word of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

I have decided not to be online for hours on end, wasting my time.
God bless- and take them vits! Light exercises WILL help you.
J.

God bless and keep you Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. What a man believes in his heart so he is. I believe you need to speak positive affirmations about your self. I am 65 and my memory is better because of belief. What we believe and speak is powerful. Paul said, "I know a man" He did not say that he was called up to the third heaven. I do not know why that the church has adopted this to be true. For example I can say, I know a man that was called up to the third heaven and when he got there he started to move forward and was met by three men. They were standing side by side. When this man took his next step forward these Three moved forward at the same time which caused this man to be thrown backward. At this the man woke up. I knew this man, and this a true story of a dream he had. I am not this man, but I know that this man got corrupted by the enemy, and he arrived at a place that was forbidden for him to enter. But I am in full agreement for us to be taught by The Holy Spirit and The Word of God.

2Co 12:5
Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12 is a good read.

 

[GTW27]

2Co 12:5
Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12 is a good read.

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. I understand that very well. I glory in my stage 4 prostate cancer. I was at the hospital two days ago getting prepared for radiation and The Lord had me in The Spirit bearing witness in two different places in the hospital. They need hope there and He is that hope. My intent for you is good. When we affirm something negative the enemy uses that. I love that chapter in the same way you do as well as all the rest. Today in a little bit I have to take my little dog back to the vet. The people might be looking at me strange this time as the last time I was there The Lord had me lay hands on a dog to heal him. I did not know I would be doing that last time. So it is with walking in The Spirit. It is The Lord that does that, as He wills. Well I have to get ready. Blessings to you Lizbeth.

 

[marks]

There is no doubt at all that the early church all agreed on the pattern I have already laid that full or entire sanctification happens before death and the soon the better. I have seen no evidence for the other view in church life and after 50 years of it, it is my experience that when Christians get to their later age - 60's 70's and 80's they get more crabby and less in control of their emotions not more sanctified. And none witness to how wonderful that golden age of gradual sanctification is. No the testimonies we hear are of have a huge change at conversion, and after that they are 'a work in progress'. I just see decline.

This "less in control of their emotions" in the late 50's and older, this is the prognosis for untreated cPTSD, that by the 50's, someone is unlikely to seek help, and less likely to actually obtain any real help.

I've seen a mix of people in the churches I've been in. Some show that kind of advanced sanctfication we're talking about, though I've never met anyone personally who claimed sinlessness. I've only met those on-line. I've known many people who show maturing in Christ over the years I've known them. I've known a number of Christians senior to me who show an enviable character, the fruit of the Spirit maturing in them.

For myself, there was both a mental and spiritual onslaught from God that ripped away all my protections. I was horrified at getting a good look at myself, and was even more horrified when I came to understand my road that led there. Without that heavy hand of God in my life, I don't think I'd have changed, just continued on in my fleshy ways.

And try as I might, I just can't seem to make my life fit any pattern of growth other than that which is fairly simply spelled out in the Bible.

That we mature over the course of our lives, that this is described as conducting our lives according to the changes God has made in us, and as putting off the wrong things from our old lives, and putting on the right things from our new life. That we are a new spirit child of God, and we have to put to death the fleshy parts of us. Which to my cPTSD understanding, speaks of the corrupted flesh - brain, psyche, like that - damaged by Adam's sin, then further by my sins, and others sins that affected me.

That I am to deny them these inner perversions (wrong bents) by directing my thoughts otherwise, Godward, not allowing them access to my actions, or my emotions.

That we do this by trusting in our complete reconciliation to God, thereby eliminating the working of law in us to provoke sin in our flesh. We do this by trusting in our complete renewal in rebirth, thereby freeing us from all constraint and compulsion to sin. By making a conscious choice to not allow anything wrong to remain or have any effect in us. That this faith, believing that God has promised, and so He will do it, is what allows us to stand in His grace, unhindered by fleshy or worldly or satanic things. Trusting in His ability we choose, knowing God is Who empowers, us, others, whatever is needed.

And that we will not know for sure whether we are sinless or not, therefore don't worry about it. Let Him be the judge, and I just focus on living as best I can. Trust in Jesus to show you what He wants to show you. In all cases, that we are to walk in the light He has given to us, trusting, trusting, that He is leading us well.

Preaching to myself here . . .

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Preaching to myself here . . .

You sure do--wish you quoted scripture references allowing me to see your thought pattern--@Hepzibah is going by the homilies of the EFC--another discombobulated bunch-though not all.
All I read is these wonderful experiences and hearing the voice of God and when I lift up the Scriptures I'm "in a relationship with a book" according to this member.
What about all who wants to live a godly life will be met with persecutions, trials, hardships etc.?

The early church fathers, a group of influential theologians and writers from the first few centuries of Christianity, indeed produced a vast body of literature that includes commentaries on various books of the Bible. However, it is essential to note that no single church father wrote commentaries on the entire Bible. Instead, their writings collectively cover significant portions of the biblical canon.

Scope of Writings: The early church fathers wrote extensive commentaries on many books of the Bible, but the coverage varied significantly among them. For example, Origen (c. 184–253) wrote commentaries on numerous books of both the Old and New Testaments, including Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Psalms, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Matthew, John, and Romans. Similarly, Jerome (c. 347–420), known for his Latin translation of the Bible (the Vulgate), wrote commentaries on the Prophets, the Pauline Epistles, and other books. Augustine of Hippo (354–430) also produced substantial exegetical works, such as his commentaries on Genesis, the Psalms, and the Gospel of John.

Focus and Specialization: Many early church fathers focused on specific areas or books. For instance, John Chrysostom (c. 349–407) is renowned for his homilies on the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles. His works are particularly noted for their pastoral and practical applications. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340–397) concentrated on the Psalms and the Gospel of Luke, providing moral and allegorical interpretations.

Exegesis and Hermeneutics: The methods and principles of biblical interpretation among the church fathers varied. Alexandrian theologians like Origen often employed allegorical interpretation, seeking deeper spiritual meanings beyond the literal text. In contrast, the Antiochian school, represented by figures like Theodore of Mopsuestia (c. 350–428) and John Chrysostom, emphasized the literal and historical context of the Scriptures.

Disagreements and Debates: There were significant theological and exegetical disagreements among the church fathers. For example, the nature of Christ and the interpretation of certain biblical passages led to intense debates and controversies. The Arian controversy, centering on the nature of Christ's divinity, involved major figures like Athanasius (c. 296–373) and Arius (c. 256–336), with differing interpretations of key scriptural texts. Similarly, the Pelagian controversy, involving Augustine and Pelagius (c. 360–418), revolved around the nature of grace, free will, and original sin, with each side interpreting biblical passages in support of their theological positions.

Legacy and Influence: Despite these disagreements, the writings of the early church fathers have profoundly influenced Christian theology, doctrine, and biblical interpretation. Their commentaries, homilies, and treatises laid the foundation for much of the later theological development in both Eastern and Western Christianity. The diversity of thought among the fathers also reflects the richness of early Christian exegesis and the ongoing effort to understand and apply the Scriptures to the life of the church.

In summary, while no single early church father wrote commentaries on the entire Bible, collectively, their writings cover a substantial portion of the biblical canon. There were indeed major disagreements between them, particularly on theological and doctrinal issues, reflecting the dynamic and evolving nature of early Christian thought and interpretation.

 

[Johann]

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. I understand that very well. I glory in my stage 4 prostate cancer. I was at the hospital two days ago getting prepared for radiation and The Lord had me in The Spirit bearing witness in two different places in the hospital. They need hope there and He is that hope. My intent for you is good. When we affirm something negative the enemy uses that. I love that chapter in the same way you do as well as all the rest. Today in a little bit I have to take my little dog back to the vet. The people might be looking at me strange this time as the last time I was there The Lord had me lay hands on a dog to heal him. I did not know I would be doing that last time. So it is with walking in The Spirit. It is The Lord that does that, as He wills. Well I have to get ready. Blessings to you Lizbeth.

You healed your dog.
I see.

 

[amigo de christo]

You sure do--wish you quoted scripture references allowing me to see your thought pattern--@Hepzibah is going by the homilies of the EFC--another discombobulated bunch-though not all.
All I read is these wonderful experiences and hearing the voice of God and when I lift up the Scriptures I'm "in a relationship with a book" according to this member.
What about all who wants to live a godly life will be met with persecutions, trials, hardships etc.?

The early church fathers, a group of influential theologians and writers from the first few centuries of Christianity, indeed produced a vast body of literature that includes commentaries on various books of the Bible. However, it is essential to note that no single church father wrote commentaries on the entire Bible. Instead, their writings collectively cover significant portions of the biblical canon.

Scope of Writings: The early church fathers wrote extensive commentaries on many books of the Bible, but the coverage varied significantly among them. For example, Origen (c. 184–253) wrote commentaries on numerous books of both the Old and New Testaments, including Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Psalms, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Matthew, John, and Romans. Similarly, Jerome (c. 347–420), known for his Latin translation of the Bible (the Vulgate), wrote commentaries on the Prophets, the Pauline Epistles, and other books. Augustine of Hippo (354–430) also produced substantial exegetical works, such as his commentaries on Genesis, the Psalms, and the Gospel of John.

Focus and Specialization: Many early church fathers focused on specific areas or books. For instance, John Chrysostom (c. 349–407) is renowned for his homilies on the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles. His works are particularly noted for their pastoral and practical applications. Ambrose of Milan (c. 340–397) concentrated on the Psalms and the Gospel of Luke, providing moral and allegorical interpretations.

Exegesis and Hermeneutics: The methods and principles of biblical interpretation among the church fathers varied. Alexandrian theologians like Origen often employed allegorical interpretation, seeking deeper spiritual meanings beyond the literal text. In contrast, the Antiochian school, represented by figures like Theodore of Mopsuestia (c. 350–428) and John Chrysostom, emphasized the literal and historical context of the Scriptures.

Disagreements and Debates: There were significant theological and exegetical disagreements among the church fathers. For example, the nature of Christ and the interpretation of certain biblical passages led to intense debates and controversies. The Arian controversy, centering on the nature of Christ's divinity, involved major figures like Athanasius (c. 296–373) and Arius (c. 256–336), with differing interpretations of key scriptural texts. Similarly, the Pelagian controversy, involving Augustine and Pelagius (c. 360–418), revolved around the nature of grace, free will, and original sin, with each side interpreting biblical passages in support of their theological positions.

Legacy and Influence: Despite these disagreements, the writings of the early church fathers have profoundly influenced Christian theology, doctrine, and biblical interpretation. Their commentaries, homilies, and treatises laid the foundation for much of the later theological development in both Eastern and Western Christianity. The diversity of thought among the fathers also reflects the richness of early Christian exegesis and the ongoing effort to understand and apply the Scriptures to the life of the church.

In summary, while no single early church father wrote commentaries on the entire Bible, collectively, their writings cover a substantial portion of the biblical canon. There were indeed major disagreements between them, particularly on theological and doctrinal issues, reflecting the dynamic and evolving nature of early Christian thought and interpretation.

The problem with many and the reason at times they come to different conclusions
is their big hurry to look wise and seem smart . if we but read the bible for ourselves many things become quite clear in time .
Its these so called greatr scholars that seem to be the ones messing stuff up a lot .
But as i said many forget something . a lot of folks read some scrip but man did they want to look wise to folks
and always in a hurry to know it all so as they can be and appear wise unto men .
Just love the scrips and enjoy them , and as we read them and seek for wisdom
understanding , knowledge it should be for one reason . HOW I CAN BETTER SERVE GOD . but
most seek knowledge to get knowledge to have praise of men and seem ever wise . and the latter AINT gonna learn right .

 

[amigo de christo]

You healed your dog.
I see.

in case you dont know this , though i THINK YA DO , this positive affirmation , its part of that
name it n claim it , nar and etc realm . actually it came of new age but most folks dont realize this .
IF you take note
they are big on postivity
but boy you bring the scrips and they accuse you OF LOVING A BOOK , having a relationship with a book and NOT GOD .
And friend that is a very common thing for them to say and to do to anyone who brings scrips . always an accusation
but never the truth or reason to show one their error . why , cause they cant . thus its YA LOVE A BOOK
YOU dont love GOD junk i hear from them a lot . but what i dont hear , TRUTH , rightly divided truth
cause well to them that is not LOVING GOD but a book . And folks wonder why deceptoin rises so easily and
so quickly . SO allow me some parting words , YOU better beleive i am gonna keep saying BIBLE TIME .
I mean WHO INSPIRED IT , WHY WOULD WE NOT LOVE THE TRUTH HE INSPIRED .
cause the last time i checked a man who hates , despises , the the Words of GOD
DONT LOVE THE GOD WHO INSPIRED THEM WORDS
rather they love an image of what they want to BELEIVE IS GOD . and this is a hard fact too my friend .

 

[GTW27]

You healed your dog.
I see.

Last time I was at the vet for my dog I ran into a old coworker there. As we talked I look down and saw her dog had hip problems. I found out later she was there for a second shot as the first did not work. Before I left, I found ten dollars on the floor and asked her if this was hers and it was. I then ask her if she would like some help for her dog and she said yes. I then kneeled down and placed both hands on each hip and prayed. As I got up I could feel the the joy of The Lord and I said to her, "see, The Lord is good all the time." I then left. This was not just for her dog but for her so that she might believe. Like I said, I had no plan to do this. Jesus said for those that believe, "you shall lay your hands on the sick and they shall recover."