Are there Two or More Resurrections?

[Spiritual Israelite]

PS
We are talking about the two separate resurrections of the dead mentioned in the book of revelation.

Paul did not write about two separate resurrections .One before the 1000 years and the one after.

John did because he was given that revelation .

Do you think that Paul wasn't aware of what Jesus taught in John 5:28-29, which is that there is a coming hour/time when all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected? How does that line up with your interpretation of Revelation 20? Are you going to now have the gall to say that even Jesus Himself didn't have the full knowledge of the resurrection of the dead when He spoke?

Jesus said believers will be resurrected on the last day (John 6:40) and that unbelievers will be judged on the last day as well (John 12:48). So, why do you have unbelievers being resurrected and judged 1,000+ years after believers are resurrected?

 

[tailgator]

He only wrote about the resurrection of believers which is the context of 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. But, as an Amil, I believe the resurrection of believers and unbelievers will happen on the same day, as Jesus taught here:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Are you trying to make a ridiculous argument that if Paul didn't write about the resurrection of unbelievers then he somehow didn't know about their resurrection? Or that him not writing about their resurrection means he didn't know all there is to know about the resurrection of believers, including that they would be resurrected on the same day as unbelievers like Jesus taught?

Who says there is a resurection of unbelievers?

Paul wrote about the first resurection.The one which takes place at the last trump.


Paul did not write about the last resurection ,nor did he write about the mark of the beast or many other things John wrote about.

 

[tailgator]

Do you think that Paul wasn't aware of what Jesus taught in John 5:28-29, which is that there is a coming hour/time when all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected? How does that line up with your interpretation of Revelation 20? Are you going to now have the gall to say that even Jesus Himself didn't have the full knowledge of the resurrection of the dead when He spoke?

Jesus said believers will be resurrected on the last day (John 6:40) and that unbelievers will be judged on the last day as well (John 12:48). So, why do you have unbelievers being resurrected and judged 1,000+ years after believers are resurrected?

Jesus doesn't say all the dead are raised at once.

PS
A day to the Lord is as 1000 years
There is a resurection at the beginning of the beginning of that day.There is a resurection after that 1000 years is finished.

This is an absolutely ludicrous argument. The dumbest argument I've ever seen in my life. Nothing you're saying indicates that Paul didn't know all there is to know about the resurrection of the dead. This is pathetic. An absolute desperate attempt to discredit Paul in order to keep your doctrine afloat. Unbelievable! For you to go to this length proves that you don't care about truth, you care about doing literally anything to make things fit your doctrine.

So why didn't Paul write everything in revelation since you say he recieved the revelation before John?

 

[tailgator]

When did Paul say he recieved the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show his servants the things which must quickly come to pass?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who says there is a resurection of unbelievers?

Is this a serious question?

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Do you think any believers will be resurrected "to shame and everlasting contempt" or "unto the resurrection of damnation" or that believers would be called "unjust"?

Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). You're missing even the most obvious things taught in scripture.

Paul wrote about the first resurection.The one which takes place at the last trump.

He wrote about the first resurrection as Jesus's resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20). He said that was the first in order and that will be followed by the resurrection of those who are His at His second coming (1 Cor 15:22-23).

Paul did not write about the last resurection ,nor did he write about the mark of the beast or many other things John wrote about.

What is your understanding of "the last resurrection"? Who do you think will be resurrected as part of "the last resurrection"?

Which resurrection do you think Jesus was talking about here:

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[tailgator]

Is this a serious question?

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Do you think any believers will be resurrected "to shame and everlasting contempt" or "unto the resurrection of damnation" or that believers would be called "unjust"?

Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). You're missing even the most obvious things taught in scripture.



He wrote about the first resurrection as Jesus's resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20). He said that was the first in order and that will be followed by the resurrection of those who are His at His second coming (1 Cor 15:22-23).


What is your understanding of "the last resurrection"? Who do you think will be resurrected as part of "the last resurrection"?

Which resurrection do you think Jesus was talking about here:

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The very quotes you quoted says nothing about unbelievers being resurected.

Demons believe.That does not make them just.
Judas believed also but what would be the purpose for him.to be resurected and given life?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus doesn't say all the dead are raised at once.

So, I guess referencing John 5:28-29 wasn't enough. I should have known you wouldn't actually bother reading it.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It doesn't have to be at the same exact moment, but it will be within the same hour. Jesus clearly indicated that there will be only one coming hour/event at which time all of the dead will be raised. Your doctrine contradicts that by saying there will be at least two hours coming when the dead will be raised.

PS
A day to the Lord is as 1000 years
There is a resurection at the beginning of the beginning of that day.There is a resurection after that 1000 years is finished.

Once again you are going out of your way with nonsense and taking scripture out of context to support your doctrine. For a day to be AS 1000 years to the Lord is not the same as saying a day IS 1000 years to the Lord. All it means when it says a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to the Lord is that time has no effect on Him since He created time and exists outside of time. A day is as 5000 years to the Lord. No amount of time makes any difference to Him since He isn't confined to the realm of time.

So why didn't Paul write everything in revelation since you say he recieved the revelation before John?

He did allude to it but just not in a symbolic way. He wrote about Christ reigning, he wrote about His people reigning with Him, he wrote about the binding of Satan, and he wrote about the resurrection of both the just and the unjust (Acts 24:15) and he wrote about judgment day. Many people don't even realize that no new doctrine is introduced in the book of Revelation that isn't taught elsewhere in scripture. It's just presented symbolically in the book of Revelation while mostly being presented literally elsewhere. And there's a bit more detail given about certain things in the book of Revelation like the new heavens and new earth even though that is written about elsewhere in scripture as well (Isaiah 65:17-25, 2 Peter 3:10-13).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The very quotes you quoted says nothing about unbelievers being resurected.

Demons believe.That does not make them just.
Judas believed also but what would be the purpose for him.to be resurected and given life?

Goodness sakes. Your lack of discernment is stunning. NEVER would scripture describe saved people as being resurrected unto "shame and everlasting contempt" or unto "damnation" and NEVER would scripture described saved people as "unjust". If you think so, then show me! Good luck with that.

As for why unbelievers would be resurrected, it should be obvious. They will experience "everlasting punishment" in "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41,46). They "shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess 1:9). God plans to punish them, that's why.

I'm not going to deal with your nonsense any longer. Everyone here can see that you have no spiritual discernment whatsoever and you are willing to do literally anything to make scripture fit your doctrine, which is shameful. You will even resort to discrediting Paul! Unbelievable! I'm done with this.

 

[tailgator]

So, I guess referencing John 5:28-29 wasn't enough. I should have known you wouldn't actually bother reading it.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It doesn't have to be at the same exact moment, but it will be within the same hour. Jesus clearly indicated that there will be only one coming hour/event at which time all of the dead will be raised. Your doctrine contradicts that by saying there will be at least two hours coming when the dead will be raised.


Once again you are going out of your way with nonsense and taking scripture out of context to support your doctrine. For a day to be AS 1000 years to the Lord is not the same as saying a day IS 1000 years to the Lord. All it means when it says a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to the Lord is that time has no effect on Him since He created time and exists outside of time. A day is as 5000 years to the Lord. No amount of time makes any difference to Him since He isn't confined to the realm of time.


He did allude to it but just not in a symbolic way. He wrote about Christ reigning, he wrote about His people reigning with Him, he wrote about the binding of Satan, and he wrote about the resurrection of both the just and the unjust (Acts 24:15) and he wrote about judgment day. Many people don't even realize that no new doctrine is introduced in the book of Revelation that isn't taught elsewhere in scripture. It's just presented symbolically in the book of Revelation while mostly being presented literally elsewhere. And there's a bit more detail given about certain things in the book of Revelation like the new heavens and new earth even though that is written about elsewhere in scripture as well (Isaiah 65:17-25, 2 Peter 3:10-13).

Well revelation shows two distinct resurrections 1000 years apart

PS
I started a new topic about Paul knowing everything .
You should post how Paul knows everything God knows in it.

 

[tailgator]

Goodness sakes. Your lack of discernment is stunning. NEVER would scripture describe saved people as being resurrected unto "shame and everlasting contempt" or unto "damnation" and NEVER would scripture described saved people as "unjust". If you think so, then show me! Good luck with that.

I'm not going to deal with your nonsense any longer. Everyone here can see that you have no spiritual discernment whatsoever and you are willing to do literally anything to make scripture fit your doctrine, which is shameful. You will even resort to discrediting Paul! Unbelievable! I'm done with this.

You believe everyone who believes in Jesus does good and receive the resurection of he just.

But scripture shows that not everyone who believes in Jesus is just.

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You believe everyone who believes in Jesus does good and receive the resurection of he just.

But scripture shows that not everyone who believes in Jesus is just.

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

You continue to show your utter lack of discernment. Anyone who falls away is not saved. Again, scripture never calls saved people "unjust". You are sadly mistaken.

 

[tailgator]

You continue to show your utter lack of discernment. Anyone who falls away is not saved. Again, scripture never calls saved people "unjust". You are sadly mistaken.

No one said that the people cast into the lake of fire are saved.
I believe the fact that they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death after they are resurected proves they are not going to be saved for anything.

 

[tailgator]

You continue to show your utter lack of discernment. Anyone who falls away is not saved. Again, scripture never calls saved people "unjust". You are sadly mistaken.

If they are not resurected and cast into a lake of fire then how are these people who received the holy Ghost burned?

You are the one who called these people who received the holy Ghost,unbelievers.


Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No one said that the people cast into the lake of fire are saved.
I believe the fact that they are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death after they are resurected proves they are not going to be saved for anything.

Do you not think the "unjust" who are resurrected unto "shame and everlasting contempt" and "damnation" will be cast into the lake of fire? Do those sound like descriptions of people who will inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt 25:34,46)?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If they are not resurected and cast into a lake of fire then how are these people who received the holy Ghost burned?

You are the one who called these people who received the holy Ghost,unbelievers.

What are you saying, that you think believers will be cast into the lake of fire? That can't be since you said otherwise in a different post. So, you are really hard to follow.

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Can you please at least make some effort to understand what I'm saying? I'm not saying any people like that are unbelievers while they are "enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come". No, of course not. I'm saying they are unbelievers if they fall away like that passage talks about. Understand?

 

[tailgator]

Do you not think the "unjust" who are resurrected unto "shame and everlasting contempt" and "damnation" will be cast into the lake of fire? Do those sound like descriptions of people who will inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt 25:34,46)?

The resurection in Daniel 12:2 is not the last resurection.It is the first resurection which takes place at the last trump.

Daniel is told those are his people
He is not told they are all people.


The last resurection in revelation 20 would be 1000 years after Daniels people are resurected in Daniel 12:2.

 

[tailgator]

Can you please at least make some effort to understand what I'm saying? I'm not saying any people like that are unbelievers while they are "enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come". No, of course not. I'm saying they are unbelievers if they fall away like that passage talks about. Understand?

If they have recieved the holy Ghost then they are believers weather they are good or bad,they still believe.

Your not going to suddenly not believe after receiving the holy Ghost.

The devil believes,that does not make his works good.The people in the last resurection are being judged by their works.They are not being judged according to their beliefs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The resurection in Daniel 12:2 is not the last resurection.It is the first resurection which takes place at the last trump.

Daniel is told those are his people
He is not told they are all people.


The last resurection in revelation 20 would be 1000 years after Daniels people are resurected in Daniel 12:2.

He is not told that only His people would be resurrected. Where do you see that here:

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

You are reading things into the scripture that aren't there. His people will be included among those who are resurrected, but that is not the only ones who will be resurrected at that time. Sometimes the OT does not give the full picture, but the NT does. If you read John 5:28-29 you can see that Jesus gives the fuller picture of what Daniel 12:2 is about. Both passages indicate that both the saved and the lost will be resurrected at generally the same time. Unless you think saved people will be resurrected "unto shame and everlasting contempt" and unto "damnation", which is completely ridiculous.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If they have recieved the holy Ghost then they are believers weather they are good or bad,they still believe.

Your not going to suddenly not believe after receiving the holy Ghost.

The devil believes,that does not make his works good.The people in the last resurection are being judged by their works.Not according to their beliefs.

Are you somehow missing the part that talks about them possibly falling away? What if they fall away? They are still believers? If you think so, then what do you think it means to fall away?

 

[tailgator]

He is not told that only His people would be resurrected. Where do you see that here:

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

You are reading things into the scripture that aren't there. His people will be included among those who are resurrected, but that is not the only ones who will be resurrected at that time. Sometimes the OT does not give the full picture, but the NT does. If you read John 5:28-29 you can see that Jesus gives the fuller picture of what Daniel 12:2 is about. Both passages indicate that both the saved and the lost will be resurrected at generally the same time. Unless you think saved people will be resurrected "unto shame and everlasting contempt" and unto "damnation", which is completely ridiculous.

Did you bother to read anything other than that one verse?