The fact that such an Eternal, All Powerful, Perfect Being can feel compassion for us is an unequivocal sign of love.
"Not my God. Not my Jesus."
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The fact that such an Eternal, All Powerful, Perfect Being can feel compassion for us is an unequivocal sign of love.
Multiple times, through his title and attribute "Ar-Raheem".
And it is not "as I wish". The Bible is a collection of 66 books while the Quran is 1. That is a fact, my friend, not my wish.
We should believe in the Jesus who preached repentance and the Kingdom of Love.
We should believe in the Jesus who healed and forgave and fed and brought consolation.
We should believe in the Jesus who commanded us to love each other and have mercy towards each other.
We should believe in the Jesus who was obedient to his Father all the way to his death, and death on the cross.
This Jesus is only one historical person. There was no other Jesus competing with him for a place in the gospels.
The Scriptures present only one.
Well, this your Jesus. This is the Jesus of @Aunty Jane
I've shown you the Scriptures, and you are responsible before God.
I believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him.
And you've chosen not to address my question, though you chose to make an appearance of answering.
Which should we believe . . . Islam, that claims Jesus did not die on the cross, or the Bible, that tells us with no uncertainty that He did. That was the question which you appear to be avoiding.
Avoiding answering valid questions is not the hallmark of an apologetic.
Much love!
Jesusfollower
Member
You are being ridiculous about thinking allah is the same as YAHWEH. that allah was a pagan god amongst 360 of these false gods before mohammed decided on one. allah is the Moon god, a false god. Do some research and see, I did that ages ago. Why do you think there is a crescent moon on all the muslin flags? many muslims do not know this.
The Origin of Allah
chalcedon.edu
Thank you for your kind words to me, Matthias.
What I find funny is that people in this Forum are bridging and maintaining bridges every day, everywhere.
I am having my department remodeled. Workers come to my department every 3 days or so.
I trust their honesty. They trust mine.
The question is: How could you trust a person who is worshiping the devil (or any false god, for that matter)?
As per @Aunty Jane declaration, these people are not worshipping the One and True God. So, what are they worshipping?
How could you trust your tax calculation to an accountant, your children to a teacher, your body to a surgeon... if the accountant, the teacher and the surgeon are supposedly demon-worshippers?
Fully agree!
I'd suggest you come to terms with the facts of what each of these claim. You've acknowledge above that Jesus died on the cross, Islam flatly refutes that.
To say that both are the same is, again, irrational.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus Did Not Die, Here is What Really Happened | About Islam
The Islamic belief about Jesus’ crucifixion and death is clear. There was a plot to crucify Jesus but it did not succeed; Jesus did not die, but ascended to
aboutislam.net
The idea of Jesus dying on the cross is central to the Christian belief. It represents the conviction that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. The crucifixion of Jesus is a vital doctrine in Christianity; however Muslims reject it completely.
Muslims do not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus, nor do they believe that he died.
The Crucifixion
Jesus’ message was rejected by most of the Israelites as well as the Roman authorities. Those who believed formed a small band of followers around him, known as the disciples. The Israelites plotted and conspired against Jesus and formulated a plan to have him assassinated. He was to be executed in public, in a particularly gruesome manner, well known in the Roman Empire: crucifixion.Crucifixion was considered a shameful way to die, and “citizens” of the Roman Empire were exempt from this punishment. It was designed to not only prolong the agony of death, but to mutilate the body.
The Israelites planned this humiliating death for their Messiah – Jesus, the messenger of God. God in His infinite mercy prevented this abominable event by putting the resemblance of Jesus on somebody else and elevating Jesus alive, body and soul, to heaven. The Quran is silent about the exact details of just who this person was, but we know and believe with certainty that it was not Prophet Jesus.
Jesusfollower
Member
there are a lot of muslim conversions going on now as we are at the beginning of the end days, there are plenty of witnesses amongst muslims that saw Jesus and are now convert. search the net and see.Fully agree!
I'd suggest you come to terms with the facts of what each of these claim. You've acknowledge above that Jesus died on the cross, Islam flatly refutes that.
To say that both are the same is, again, irrational.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus Did Not Die, Here is What Really Happened | About Islam
The Islamic belief about Jesus’ crucifixion and death is clear. There was a plot to crucify Jesus but it did not succeed; Jesus did not die, but ascended to
The idea of Jesus dying on the cross is central to the Christian belief. It represents the conviction that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. The crucifixion of Jesus is a vital doctrine in Christianity; however Muslims reject it completely.
Muslims do not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus, nor do they believe that he died.
The Crucifixion
Jesus’ message was rejected by most of the Israelites as well as the Roman authorities. Those who believed formed a small band of followers around him, known as the disciples. The Israelites plotted and conspired against Jesus and formulated a plan to have him assassinated. He was to be executed in public, in a particularly gruesome manner, well known in the Roman Empire: crucifixion.
Crucifixion was considered a shameful way to die, and “citizens” of the Roman Empire were exempt from this punishment. It was designed to not only prolong the agony of death, but to mutilate the body.
The Israelites planned this humiliating death for their Messiah – Jesus, the messenger of God. God in His infinite mercy prevented this abominable event by putting the resemblance of Jesus on somebody else and elevating Jesus alive, body and soul, to heaven. The Quran is silent about the exact details of just who this person was, but we know and believe with certainty that it was not Prophet Jesus.
here is but one example, hundreds more to be found.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Speculation. I showed you how they are not the same but are essentially different in very simple terms.
There is more, a lot more that shows the God worshipped by "people of the book" is not the same as the Prince of Darkness, masquerading as the Angel Gabriel. Killing infidels is NOT love of infidels. There is no NT parallel.
Essential differences are not basically the same.
I knew a man in my previous church, his brother was on the ruling council of a Muslim village in Sudan. One night he saw Jesus in a vision, and was converted. When he went to the council meeting the next day, every other member has seen Jesus and became Christian. Just like that!
Much love!
You are being ridiculous about thinking allah is the same as YAHWEH. that allah was a pagan god amongst 360 of these false gods before mohammed decided on one. allah is the Moon god, a false god. Do some research and see, I did that ages ago. Why do you think there is a crescent moon on all the muslin flags? many muslims do not know this.
The Origin of Allah
I respectfully encourage you to do the investigations about Yahweh that you ask me to do about Allah.
Did you know that, in the beginning, Yahweh was one of many gods worshipped in what we know today as Israel?
Did you know that the cult to Yahweh was different from the cult of El (Elohim) and that later on these two cults merged into one?
Did you know that it is very likely that His wife was Asherah?
Did you know that Yawheh was represented as a bull or calf?
God revealed Himself progressively through thousands of years, to people who had a polytheistic view of the world. That happened with Arabs as it happened with Hebrews and many others.
But regardless of the limited or corrupted understanding of our ancestors, our focus in this thread is God, which is One, Creator, Almighty, All Merciful, and which is known by different names.
Who or What Was Yahweh’s Asherah? - The BAS Library
New inscriptions from two different sites have reopened the debate about the meaning of asherah, a term often used in the Bible. Is it—or she—a goddess? Is it a holy place? Or perhaps a sacred tree? Or a pole? Or possibly a grove of trees? All these suggestions have been proposed at one time […]
library.biblicalarchaeology.org
I'm not saying that Islam and Christianism are the same thing.
I'm not saying that Muslims and Christians think in the same way.
So you may have missed the whole point of this thread, my friend.
As I said: if you expect everyone to think in God or Jesus in exactly the same way you think, you will soon realize that you are alone on Earth, the only one with the truth, the only one worshipping the true God, while the rest of humanity worships billions of demons.
If you search in Islamic Youtube Channels, you will find abundant testimonies of Christians who converted to Islam.
The fact that we find thousands of people seeking God converting in both directions (from Christians to Muslims and from Muslims to Christians) and see their lives transformed for good, speaks loudly on the fact that the works of the Holy Spirit go beyond the boundaries of formal religion.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You can read into it all you want. One God says they love us so much they sent their only begotten son to pay the price of our moral failings. The other God, not so much.
Essential difference.
What I understand you to be saying is that regardless of whatever we think may be the differences between the God of the Bible, and the gods of various religions, that they are actually one and the same.
I'm responding that the Bible eliminates that possibility.
Much love!
And many people do put their own perceptions of themselves and others as more valid than the Bible's statements. But facts are facts. Either the Bible is true, or it's not. If it's true, well, it says what I've been saying. If it's not true, then nevermind me.
Much love!
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The issue is not whether Jesus was an historical person who did all these things……the issue is whether Jesus was “THE Son of God”, not just a prophet among many.
His death was not just martyrdom, but accomplished what no other human could do…..as a sinless human, (the equivalent to Adam when God created him) he paid for the sins of mankind. God’s law was…”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”. He paid the price of redemption for Adam’s sin. What other prophet could do that?
There is no doubt that Jesus was “the prophet like Moses” who was prophesied to come…
Acts 3:22-23…
”In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. 23 Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’” (Also Acts 7:37)
But was he just a man like Moses? Their lives have so many similarities right from the time of their birth.….but Moses was just a man, chosen by God from birth to be the one to liberate his people from slavery in Egypt…..but not until he was 80 years old.
Jesus said he had come down from heaven, not to do his own will, but to do the will of the one who sent him.
John 6:37-40….
”All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and I will never drive away the one who comes to me; 38 for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me. 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”
If there was another prophet to come, the scriptures would have said so……they foretold well in advance that the Messiah would come in Abraham’s line of decent…..through Isaac and Jacob…..not Ishmael.
The Jews prided themselves on being “sons of Abraham” but they were put in their place by John the Baptist…
Matt 3:7-10….
”When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
So the Jews missed the boat, all caught up in their lineage, they forgot that God requires faith and obedience…..something the Jews did not give their God and still do not, as they are among the world’s blood spillers. God abandoned them once his purpose in connection with them was accomplished. (Matt 23:37-39) If God abandoned the Jews because of disobedience, then this is a primary quality among all who profess to serve the son of God in doing the will of his Father. None who have blood on their hands, no matter what they claim, will have any inheritance in the Kingdom. (Isa 1:15, Matt 5:43-48) How do you “love your enemies” with weapons of mass destruction?
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Speculation?
What would be the reason why God has been so compassionate (merciful) with you and with me?
Why has He forgiven our sins?
The compassion and love of God are not separable.
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:4)
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Have you asked her? If you have, what did she say? (I don’t read her tomes.)
The validity of Bible statements resides in how those statements change your life.
Otherwise, they have no validity, no purpose, no sense.
I'm not putting "perceptions" over the Bible. I'm putting a holy life over the Bible.
Why? Because the Bible is just a tool, a tool designed to lead the reader to a holy life.
I'm not making this up. It's in the Bible itself !!
Please read with me: Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
The fact that God equally guides Christians to become Muslims and Muslims to become Christians speak loudly of the power of the One, Only, All-Merciful God that transcends formal religious boundaries.
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