God's command (part of it) is to believe (1 Jn 3:23,24)--and "but to those who believed [obeyed the command] He gave the right to become sons of God."
You don't know Scripture.
Filthy Rags versus Fine Linen Bright and Clean
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You don't know Scripture.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Well, you wrote "command-s"
So, i interpreted this to mean " 10 commandments", as you were not clear...
So, i dealt with one (command), which is........"God would have all to be born agian (Saved)"
1st Tim 2:4
And this verse refutes Calvinism -Tulip- Predestined - Hyper Calvinism.
So, that is the only command of God that must be obeyed, to go to heaven.
Let me show you the command of God, as Jesus gives it to you.
Jesus said.>>>>"You MUST be born again"..
See that?
That is God's command that "HE would have ALL to be saved".
I recognize some people who disagree with me have God's presence--some in a way I don't. Unfortunately, I went to hell from listening to a pastor instead of God, so, now, my only certainty is what the text says, so I stick close to it, and I notice no one knows what they're talking about (when it comes to Scripture), but I've recognized God is with Christians of every stripe, to this or that degree, and I try to understand what Scriptural principles they are fulfilling to obtain that, in addition to just trying to understand the text.
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At least don't lie about me. I was perfectly clear :
Why do you use dishonesty when you talk with me?
Yeah, you become born again by obeying God's command to believe.
You don't know what you're talking about.
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Eternally Grateful
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Way to much “I” in here
Just receive in faith.
Why do you respond like this? Does it help you?
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VictoryinJesus
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To me it’s what is needful in different seasons. I can relate to you on pastors. I listened to one of favorites the other day. I listened to him all the time in the beginning of reading the word. Back then I thought “wow” and clung to every word he said. It’s been several years since I listened to him, but I put one of his sermons on in my car the other day …one YouTube was calling “one of the best sermons” ever given. Maybe I was just emotional that day..but listening to him I started to cry. I didn’t agree with him anymore. His sermons are brutal and maybe what I needed to hear back then, but he was talking about “filthy rags” and shouting at the congregation “why are you squirming around? I’m talking to all of you!” Then he went in to Matthew where few find the way, the way being narrow….straight into how he as a pastor knows God hates abortion! So he will stand up and shout “God hates abortion!” …see (just my opinion) but what I hear was he is patting his own back for his mighty fearlessness in front of church telling them boldly …if your rags are filthy I’ll fear not to hurt your feelings …using: I fear not to stand up to shout “God hates abortion!” To me …few there that find it …message is the same as “God hates abortion!” But to me it’s men aborting the children of God, in keeping them from entering in. That is what I heard this pastor saying, by his own words he was acknowledging what God hates, but very passage he was preaching on was speaking about that which God hates “few find it” 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
But he (the pastor) was using it the opposite way. Presenting the hard task master who never is pleased.
Point is…I change my mind too about Pastors. Even some of my favorites.
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I didn't need to go to hell.
Anyway, that wasn't the point--the point was I stick close to Scripture, and I can see when people are not sticking to Scripture.
VictoryinJesus
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You said “the difference between Grace and law is if I Covet under the law I am convicted as guilty. Under grace I can. Not be convicted as guilty.”
I see it differently. if I’m convicted of coveting, I am guilty of the the same that “I judge”, if under the law or under Grace. For if I judge coveting, then “His judgement is true” and what measure I judge by (whether by Grace) or (by the Law) where if by the law I do lay this judgement “coveting” upon others, and I am guilty of doing the same then it’s no more by grace but by the law.
I was only using tithing as one example. There are many teachings that (I can only speak for myself) were my first introduction into the keeping of the mosaic laws in church.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
True. But then that’s why you need grace because outside of grace you’re dead. And that payment would have to be paid for you to be made alive again
I am not talking about judging others. I am talking about how I will be judged by god on judgment day.
Yes I see. A lot want to take us back to law. Failing to to understand the Jews could
Not keep it why do we think we can
VictoryinJesus
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I was thinking more about why judging others stands out to me as significant. To me it does have to do with Jesus Christ’s words where if we judge a man as an adulterer, if one looks on a woman with lust he also is an adulterer. But to me there’s a lust also after (to look in with lust in the heart after) the woman in Romans and Numbers 5 who is bound to her husband. It Could be (to look on with) lust (in the heart) after the woman who is free but to (lurk about) to bring her back into bondage of an adulterous woman. (They want to make merchandise if you.) There are verses that say to not lust after those who do wrong and envy their way. Why was there and why is there an angst always in scripture of this one question….why do you lust to be bound? (Bound to the woman in Romans and numbers 5 called an adulterous) Have you not heard the end there is death? Why do you wish to go back?
judging to me is our saying we know what is wrong. If we say someone is self-righteous and high-minded and we are the doing the same…that is what I meant concerning Grace…we judge them as such, so what does that mean if we admit it’s wrong to do something (our conviction stirring us up to speak boldly against something we say is wrong to do) and we do the same?
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It doesn't work like this. You are confusing purity with maturity.
A person who has the Holy Spirit within, testifying that they have reached the state of entire sanctification, knows only too well that all of their security and peace comes from Christ alone, and if they once more depend on the flesh for that, they will immediately fall from grace.
Many have been exposed to false teaching and crash and burn because they falsely thought they had reached ES.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No actually I am not. But thank you for your concern
Purity in my view should be seen as the word states. Pure water has nothin in it to taint it
I will never be pure (in this context) in this lifetime. As the word says if Christ is in me my body is dead because of sin. My spirit is alive because of righteousness (christs)
Fall from Grace what does this even mean? Grace is unmerited favor or Gods mercy. How can you fall from Grace when you require it even more?
Yes I agree. When you trying to earn Gods love and think you made it God has a habit of taking us down a peg or two. And due to this false teaching many walk away. Why bother if I have no hope
That’s why eternal insecurity is so dangerous it focuses us on self not God
So what happens to the pure heart Christ gives us?
Read Hebrews.
We are secure in Christ only if we walk in Christ where there is no sin.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Does it lead to sinless perfection? Does it stop struggling?
I have. What’s your point please?
Ah I see so your one who thinks they have ceased from sin
Yeah I can agree. John said if we think we are there we are decieved I try not to be decieved
The struggle is to stay there -without sin and not be tempted by the enemy.
Do Not Harden Your Hearts (Psalm 95:1–11) 7Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear His voice, 8do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion, in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9where your fathers tested and tried Me, and for forty years saw My works. 10Therefore I was angry with that generation, and I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known My ways.’ 11So I swore on oath in My anger, ‘They shall never enter My rest.’ ”d |
I have been in this state yes.
Misinterpretation.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The struggle is to not fucis on self and focus on others
You’re not under law. Take the grace God is showing you and move on
Yes did they ever believe of course not their minds were in Egypt. So they could
Not focus on God
Ok if you think so
If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us 1 John 1:8
How could you misinterprete this to say anything other that what it says
Yes of course thinking of others is included. Moving on is walking as He walked. Are you?
You misinterpret it by taking that verse out of context.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.
As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).
In the same letter we read:
He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.
Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9
He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6
He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4
Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1
John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.
The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.
We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:
1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.
The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.
In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-
1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)
2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven
3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.
Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-
1)We are deceived and remain in our sin
2)There is no truth in us
3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.
So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.
Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis.
As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).
In the same letter we read:
He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.
Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9
He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6
He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4
Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1
John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.
The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.
We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:
1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.
The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.
In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-
1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)
2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven
3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.
Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-
1)We are deceived and remain in our sin
2)There is no truth in us
3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.
So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.
Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Am I perfect? No. And I am not focused on it either I am focused on God and others.
But you in error
Context is if we say we have no sin we are decieved. And there is no truth in us
When we sun we confess it
If we say we have never sinned we make him a liar
Just take him at his word. When we try to make God say something that he did not say we are In Serious trouble
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