Roughly Charting the scriptures

[RedFan]

So you defy logic with human reasoning, and deny the Second Coming is still yet to happen in a single posted quote of some theological expert.

Prove one person in attendance that day was still walking around in Jerusalem in 70AD.

That's not my basis. My basis is a common sense understanding of what "this generation" would mean to Jesus's audience. And I don't know if John was in Jerusalem in 70 AD, but the consensus of scholars is that he was still alive much later than 70 AD.

 

[ewq1938]

Show me another instance of ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη in Scripture where "that" rather than "this" is the translation.

I showed the definition where it stated the word can mean this or that. "this" can refer to a distant generation anyways. I just like to point out the word can mean either this or that because most don't know that.

"The generation of 3000AD will populate other planets. This generation will be known as the Space Generation." "this" used for a future generation.

 

[RedFan]

I showed the definition where it stated the word can mean this or that. "this" can refer to a distant generation anyways. I just like to point out the word can mean either this or that because most don't know that.

"The generation of 3000AD will populate other planets. This generation will be known as the Space Generation." "this" used for a future generation.

Quote any English translation you like of any verse with αὕτη and the result will be the same: αὕτη is always translated as "this" rather than "that." Check for yourself.

Matthew 21:42
Κυρίου ἐγένετο αὕτη καὶ ἔστιν

Matthew 22:20
ἡ εἰκὼν αὕτη καὶ ἡ

Matthew 22:38
αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

Matthew 24:34
ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως ἂν

Matthew 26:8
ἡ ἀπώλεια αὕτη

Mark 8:12
ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ζητεῖ σημεῖον

Mark 12:11
Κυρίου ἐγένετο αὕτη καὶ ἔστιν

Mark 12:16
ἡ εἰκὼν αὕτη καὶ ἡ

Mark 12:43
ἡ χήρα αὕτη ἡ πτωχὴ

Mark 13:30
ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη μέχρις οὗ

Mark 14:4
ἡ ἀπώλεια αὕτη τοῦ μύρου

Luke 2:2
αὕτη ἀπογραφὴ πρώτη

Luke 4:21
ἡ γραφὴ αὕτη ἐν τοῖς

Luke 8:9
αὐτοῦ τίς αὕτη εἴη ἡ

Luke 8:11
ἔστιν δὲ αὕτη ἡ παραβολή

Luke 11:29
Ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη γενεὰ πονηρά

Luke 21:3
ἡ χήρα αὕτη ἡ πτωχὴ

Luke 21:32
ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη ἕως ἂν

Luke 22:53
ἐμέ ἀλλ' αὕτη ἐστὶν ὑμῶν

John 1:19
Καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

John 3:19
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν

John 3:29
τοῦ νυμφίου αὕτη οὖν ἡ

John 8:4
αὐτῷ Διδάσκαλε αὕτη ἡ γυνὴ

John 11:4
Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Αὕτη ἡ ἀσθένεια

John 12:30
ἡ φωνὴ αὕτη γέγονεν ἀλλὰ

John 15:12
αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

John 17:3
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν

Acts 8:26
εἰς Γάζαν αὕτη ἐστὶν ἔρημος

Acts 8:32
ἀνεγίνωσκεν ἦν αὕτη Ὡς πρόβατον

Acts 16:17
αὕτη κατακολουθοῦσα τῷ

Acts 17:19
ἡ καινὴ αὕτη ἡ ὑπὸ

Acts 21:11
ἡ ζώνη αὕτη οὕτως δήσουσιν

Romans 11:27
καὶ αὕτη αὐτοῖς ἡ

1 Corinthians 8:9
ἐξουσία ὑμῶν αὕτη πρόσκομμα γένηται

1 Corinthians 9:3
ἀνακρίνουσίν ἐστιν αὕτη

2 Corinthians 1:12
καύχησις ἡμῶν αὕτη ἐστίν τὸ

2 Corinthians 2:6
ἡ ἐπιτιμία αὕτη ἡ ὑπὸ

2 Corinthians 11:10
ἡ καύχησις αὕτη οὐ φραγήσεται

Ephesians 3:8
ἡ χάρις αὕτη τοῖς ἔθνεσιν

Titus 1:13
ἡ μαρτυρία αὕτη ἐστὶν ἀληθής

Hebrews 8:10
ὅτι αὕτη ἡ διαθήκη

Hebrews 10:16
Αὕτη ἡ διαθήκη

James 1:27
καὶ πατρὶ αὕτη ἐστίν ἐπισκέπτεσθαι

James 3:15
οὐκ ἔστιν αὕτη ἡ σοφία

1 John 1:5
Καὶ ἔστιν αὕτη ἡ ἀγγελία

1 John 2:25
καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

1 John 3:11
ὅτι αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

1 John 3:23
καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

1 John 5:3
αὕτη γάρ ἐστιν

1 John 5:4
κόσμον καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

1 John 5:9
ἐστίν ὅτι αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

1 John 5:11
καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

1 John 5:11
ἡμῖν καὶ αὕτη ἡ ζωὴ

1 John 5:14
καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

2 John 1:6
καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ

2 John 1:6
ἐντολὰς αὐτοῦ αὕτη ἡ ἐντολή

Revelation 20:5
χίλια ἔτη αὕτη ἡ ἀνάστασις

 

[ewq1938]

Quote any English translation you like of any verse with αὕτη and the result will be the same: αὕτη is always translated as "this" rather than "that." Check for yourself.

I'm aware that the translation choice is "this" but the word can mean "that" and it would be a valid choice of translation.

Did you know the word is also translated as - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, which, and who?



G3778
οὗτος, οὗτοι, αὕτη, αὕται
houtos houtoi hautē hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine singular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.
Total KJV occurrences: 352

 

[RedFan]

I'm aware that the translation choice is "this" but the word can mean "that" and it would be a valid choice of translation.

Mine is not just a translation "choice." It's compelling. Your claim was that the word could be "equally" translated as "that." I beg to differ. If "that" were a valid translation, why is the score 1,000+ to zero with all case, number and gender variations of οὗτος counted? The fact is that the translation "this" and "these" is 100% while "that" and "those" is 0%. Not a single English translation of any instance of the word in Scripture renders the adjective as "that." Ditto for Latin translations of the Bible (always hic rather than ille) and any other language I have ever studied.

Is there nobody on the planet who agrees with your translation of Matt. 24:34? Surely you can find somebody, in some language, who went your way on this.

 

[ewq1938]

Mine is not just a translation "choice." It's compelling. Your claim was that the word could be "equally" translated as "that." I beg to differ. If "that" were a valid translation, why is the score 1,000+ to zero with all case, number and gender variations of οὗτος counted?

"this" and the other many other choices are perfectly valid and so is "that" despite it not being used. It is part of it's definition. Are you intentionally ignoring that or do you reject that part of it's definition?

Is there nobody on the planet who agrees with your translation of Matt. 24:34? Surely you can find somebody, in some language, who went your way on this.

I'll cite the definition itself which is the authority. Translations are not authority nor do they decide a definition of a word.


G3778
houtos houtoi haute¯ hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

 

[RedFan]

"this" and the other many other choices are perfectly valid and so is "that" despite it not being used. It is part of it's definition. Are you intentionally ignoring that or do you reject that part of it's definition?









I'll cite the definition itself which is the authority. Translations are not authority nor do they decide a definition of a word.


G3778
houtos houtoi haute¯ hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

We are discussing οὗτος when used as an adjective, not as a pronoun. Why do you keep referencing its possible translation in pronoun usage? Keep your eye on the ball, please. Matt. 24:34.

 

[ewq1938]

We are discussing οὗτος when used as an adjective, not as a pronoun. Why do you keep referencing its possible translation in pronoun usage? Keep your eye on the ball, please. Matt. 24:34.

The word can mean either THIS or THAT. This isn't a pronoun VS adjective issue but a definition issue.

 

[RedFan]

The word can mean either THIS or THAT. This isn't a pronoun VS adjective issue but a definition issue.

If you say so.

 

[ewq1938]

If you say so.

Not me. This comes from the Strong's concordance definition of the word.

 

[RedFan]

Not me. This comes from the Strong's concordance definition of the word.

"This" or "that" or "he," "she" or "it" are pronouns in the Strong's section you lifted. Asa demonstrative adjective "this" is always the meaning. hence you cannot find a single adjectival use of the word in Scripture that anyone would dare translate as "that." Not one in over a thousand. Why is that, do you suppose?

 

[Timtofly]

That's not my basis. My basis is a common sense understanding of what "this generation" would mean to Jesus's audience. And I don't know if John was in Jerusalem in 70 AD, but the consensus of scholars is that he was still alive much later than 70 AD.

Unless you consider that John did pass away in the vat of oil he was boiled alive in?

The common sense understanding would be that, the generation that heard Jesus that day, would all be dead, within 20 years. Some would be in their 80's in 70AD. Jesus would have been 73. The life expectancy was 35 years in the first century.

Tell me, if Jesus died at age 33, when He came back, to life would he continue to age? Is Jesus now 2027 years old? Or would a resurrection, change the definition of generation? 70AD would have been the next 2 generations life experiences.

 

[ewq1938]

"This" or "that" or "he," "she" or "it" are pronouns in the Strong's section you lifted. Asa demonstrative adjective "this" is always the meaning.

First, this or that are interchangeable. Second, I have proven the Greek word can mean either, according to the Strong's.

Points to a red Corvette in his garage, "This car is mine." or "That car is mine." Same thing.

hence you cannot find a single adjectival use of the word in Scripture that anyone would dare translate as "that." Not one in over a thousand. Why is that, do you suppose?

Doesn't matter since translation choices are not definitions.