Roughly Charting the scriptures

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Jay Ross

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I'm just substituting 1,000 years for "generation" in these three gospel passages. Isn't that permissible -- if you are right about "generation" meaning 1,000 years?

Yes, that is permissible if the right context is used. If we use, lets say, Matthew 24:32-35, to come to an understanding of when the referenced Generation starts. Verse 32 tells us this: -

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.

The fig tree budded in early spring, in 1948, and the beginning of the Summer season of the Great Harvest, i.e. the seventh age, will being some 91-96 days/years later and in my estimation around the year 2044 AD.

You posted this suggestion as to when Jesus will return: -

If "a generation" reference in Scripture is 1,000 years, then Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; and Luke 21:32 have Jesus predicting his return on the clouds of heaven, roughly by the invasion of William the Conqueror in 1066.

to which I responded with

How do you come up with that thought. Certainly not from what I posted or from the context where the three scriptural references you alluded to are found in scripture.

and you responded with this

If "a generation" reference in Scripture is 1,000 years, then Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; and Luke 21:32 have Jesus predicting his return on the clouds of heaven, roughly by the invasion of William the Conqueror in 1066.

There is a need to have a good understanding of the context of the scriptures that are being referenced.

I am sure that you can see that the determination of when Jesus will return is at the end of the 7th age as Jesus is alluding to.

Shalom
 

Jay Ross

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Jay, I won the argument because what you claim is in Hosea 6:1-3 about there being 7 ages simply is not there. Also please note I have not presented ad hominem type comments to win the argument.

Oh Douggg, your lack of joining the dots is so apparent in that you want the scripture to precisely state that there will be seven ages between the creation of Adam and the second coming of the Lord to judge all of mankind.

Isaac was born at the beginning of the third age, Christ was born of Mary at the beginning of the fifth Age and the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers began at the beginning of the fifth Age. Hosea 6:1-3

Hosea 6:1-3: - A Call to Repentance
6:1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;​
For He has torn, but He will heal us;​
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.​
2 After two days {within God’s timeframe of reference[1]} He will revive us;​
On the third day {within God’s timeframe of reference} He will raise us up,​
That we may live in His sight.​
3 Let us know,​
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.​
His going forth is established as the morning;​
He will come to us like the rain,​
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.​

Now since the visitation of the fathers' iniquities for their continual idolatrous worship during the first two ages of the existence of the Israelite people, the visitation of the fathers' iniquities began during the third age of the existence of the Israelite nation and would also continue during the fourth age of the nation of Israel, as confirmed by Exodus 20:4-6 and also in Hosea 6:1-3. Hosea 6:1-2 tells us that for the first two days of the Lord that the Lord has torn them, but that he will also heal them, and that He has stricken them but that He will bind then, and after these two days of the Lord/age, because the duration of a Day of the Lord has the same duration of an Age, that on the third day/age He will raise them up so that they can live in His sight.

Simple addition tells us that it is during the seventh age that God will once again raise up Israel so that they may live in His sight.

The fact that there will be seven ages is clearly found in the scriptures and is not hidden from us. Daniel in his book of prophetic words also confirms this in chapter 12:7 and since Daniel was living around the time of the end of the three and a half ages then the three and a half ages embedded in the seventh verse does confirm that there will be seven ages.


I simply rest my proof.

Goodbye


[1] The length of time of a Day within God’s timeframe of reference, within mankind’s timeframe of reference is, within my understanding, a period of 1,024 {solar} years
 

RedFan

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Yes, that is permissible if the right context is used. If we use, lets say, Matthew 24:32-35, to come to an understanding of when the referenced Generation starts. Verse 32 tells us this: -

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.

The fig tree budded in early spring, in 1948, and the beginning of the Summer season of the Great Harvest, i.e. the seventh age, will being some 91-96 days/years later and in my estimation around the year 2044 AD.
My "understanding of when the referenced Generation starts" comes from the actual words of Scripture. Jesus said "THIS generation" -- the one he was addressing -- would not pass away before the predicted events occurred. There is nothing in his quoted words to suggest that "THIS generation" was a reference to "THE FOLLOWING generation after this one." If a "generation" is code for a millenium, then whether he and his audience were at the beginning of one, the middle of one or towards the end of one, the absolute end point for when the events would occur would be the Eleventh Century. So either you're wrong or Jesus was wrong. (Or both.)
 
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Douggg

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Oh Douggg, your lack of joining the dots is so apparent in that you want the scripture to precisely state that there will be seven ages between the creation of Adam and the second coming of the Lord to judge all of mankind.

Isaac was born at the beginning of the third age, Christ was born of Mary at the beginning of the fifth Age and the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers began at the beginning of the fifth Age. Hosea 6:1-3

Hosea 6:1-3: - A Call to Repentance
6:1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;​
For He has torn, but He will heal us;​
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.​
2 After two days {within God’s timeframe of reference[1]} He will revive us;​
On the third day {within God’s timeframe of reference} He will raise us up,​
That we may live in His sight.​
3 Let us know,​
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.​
His going forth is established as the morning;​
He will come to us like the rain,​
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.​

Now since the visitation of the fathers' iniquities for their continual idolatrous worship during the first two ages of the existence of the Israelite people, the visitation of the fathers' iniquities began during the third age of the existence of the Israelite nation and would also continue during the fourth age of the nation of Israel, as confirmed by Exodus 20:4-6 and also in Hosea 6:1-3. Hosea 6:1-2 tells us that for the first two days of the Lord that the Lord has torn them, but that he will also heal them, and that He has stricken them but that He will bind then, and after these two days of the Lord/age, because the duration of a Day of the Lord has the same duration of an Age, that on the third day/age He will raise them up so that they can live in His sight.

Simple addition tells us that it is during the seventh age that God will once again raise up Israel so that they may live in His sight.

The fact that there will be seven ages is clearly found in the scriptures and is not hidden from us. Daniel in his book of prophetic words also confirms this in chapter 12:7 and since Daniel was living around the time of the end of the three and a half ages then the three and a half ages embedded in the seventh verse does confirm that there will be seven ages.


I simply rest my proof.

Goodbye


[1] The length of time of a Day within God’s timeframe of reference, within mankind’s timeframe of reference is, within my understanding, a period of 1,024 {solar} years
Please present your systematic theology into years.

first age - creation of man, thru year ?, ?????????

second age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

third age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

fourth age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

fifth age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

sixth age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

seventh age - year ?, ???????, thru year 7000, Jesus's Second Coming (according to Jay)
 
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Douggg

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The fact that there will be seven ages is clearly found in the scriptures and is not hidden from us.
Jay, that you are the only one in the forum talking about there being seven ages, means that it is not "clearly found in the scripture and is not hidden from us".

You are making up your own systematic approach to theology. None of the disciples/apostles talked about there being 7 ages.

Your systematic approach of 7 ages seems to be similar to dispesationalism's 7 dispensations.
 

Douggg

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Hosea 6:1-3: - A Call to Repentance6:1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;For He has torn, but He will heal us;He has stricken, but He will bind us up.2 After two days {within God’s timeframe of reference[1]} He will revive us;On the third day {within God’s timeframe of reference} He will raise us up,That we may live in His sight.
When Jesus returns, it will be 2000 years thereabout of when the Jews were taken captive into the nations in the first century. That is the 2 days.

In Matthew 24:31, when Jesus returns, He sends his angels out to gather the elect. The elect are the Jews, who will have become believers in Christ in the middle of the 7 years. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27, the 70th week, determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (see verse 4 below)

Their being gathered is a promise that God made in Deuteronomy 30:1-6. Jesus's return begins the third day of Hosea 6:1-3, the 1000 year millennium rule of Christ on earth.

Deuteronomy 30:
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
 
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Jay Ross

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My "understanding of when the referenced Generation starts" comes from the actual words of Scripture. Jesus said "THIS generation" -- the one he was addressing -- would not pass away before the predicted events occurred. There is nothing in his quoted words to suggest that "THIS generation" was a reference to "THE FOLLOWING generation after this one." If a "generation" is code for a millenium, then whether he and his audience were at the beginning of one, the middle of one or towards the end of one, the absolute end point for when the events would occur would be the Eleventh Century. So either you're wrong or Jesus was wrong. (Or both.)

Fair enough, that is what you believe. If I am wrong, then God will correct me, and I will have to repent of being a false prophet.

Shalom
 
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TribulationSigns

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My "understanding of when the referenced Generation starts" comes from the actual words of Scripture. Jesus said "THIS generation" -- the one he was addressing -- would not pass away before the predicted events occurred. There is nothing in his quoted words to suggest that "THIS generation" was a reference to "THE FOLLOWING generation after this one." If a "generation" is code for a millenium, then whether he and his audience were at the beginning of one, the middle of one or towards the end of one, the absolute end point for when the events would occur would be the Eleventh Century. So either you're wrong or Jesus was wrong. (Or both.)

I disagree.

There are two families of people of two contrasting and distinct seeds. Even as God Himself spoke of them in the Garden of Eden, and the enmity He declared would be between them. The children of God and children of the Devil are two diverse and distinct generations or families from these two seeds. The family of God extends all the way back to the beginning. Likewise, the family of Satan extends to the same period, illustrated vividly in the episode of Abel and Cain. The way that the word of God uses the phrase "the Generation of evil", makes it synonymous with the children (or family) of the Devil. It does NOT refer only to an immediate present day family group, or a nation Israel. The Generation of evil refers to all the seed of the Serpent throughout time, who are of that family by their Patriarchal relationship to the spirit of Satan. Just as the children of God refer to the whole family of God, which are a chosen generation, [genos] or family (1st Peter 2:9) extending throughout time. So it's not just people who happen to be living at the time in which the phrase was written. God uses these family relationships to illustrate those who are of the same spiritual kinship, as illustrated in passages like John chapter 8:

John 8:44
  • "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Once again we see that Christ is clearly explaining the divine truth that they were the kindred, seed or children of the Devil. They were part of a particular spiritual family group relationship and that is why Christ identifies their "father" as the Devil. Satan is the spiritual Patriarch reference for the whole generation or family of evil. Clearly, Satan has had many children throughout time, not merely these whom Christ was speaking to or has to do with 1948 nation of Israel in this immediate context. All those under Satan's spiritual control are the generation or family of evil which has existed from the beginning. In Biblical terms, they are the spiritual offspring (generation) of their Patriarch reference, which is that old Serpent the Devil and Satan. Just as when Christ speaks of the people as a generation of vipers, He is identifying that seed, these children, that family group, as a people who serve their father Satan. He is not talking about everyone in that physical generation or time period. Nor were all living in that physical (generation) time span, this generation Christ spoke of. Nor could they be, since they all were not children of Satan or of evil.

Matthew 12:32-35
  • "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
  • Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
  • O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
  • A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."
How can a [gennema] (meaning offspring or family) of vipers, children of the serpent, speak good things when they speak from their heart, which is full of evil. This family (translated generation) that Christ references is the seed of the serpent, children of vipers. That clearly cannot be all the physical generation alive at that time, which consists of the Apostles, John the Baptist, Mary, Elizabeth, or any of the true church of that period. They cannot commit the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Of necessity it has to be only the unregenerate 'family' of the viper Satan. Not the whole generation living at that time, He spoke of the family of Satan who cannot escape the damnation of Hell--that generation! Therefore, when Christ calls them the [gennema] of vipers, he is not referring to all those people of that time (as many often understand generation to to mean), but he is speaking only of the seed of the serpent, Satan. It is a family or generation of evil that cannot escape judgment, and Satan is their spiritual Patriarch father.

Matthew 23:32-34
  • Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
  • Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
  • Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:"
The well oiled myth that the phrase this generation always refers to a particular span of that contemporary time, is clearly not the case. Here Christ references the previous people (their fathers) who lived before, and who killed and persecuted the prophets, and includes them as this same generation (or family) of vipers and snakes. He also includes those who would come after and persecute His prophets. That proves it's not referring only to his contemporaries. Because it is self evident that if this word meant that all this generation (the way many understand the word) at that time were a bunch of snakes who couldn't escape the damnation of hell, then it would mean the wicked who came before them and after them, and killed the prophets and the Apostles, were not in that generation also. That contradicts the passage itself. The Apostles were of that physical generation "if" the word generation really meant what the Premillennial or Preterists) believe that it means. But obviously, Christ is not talking about that local contemporary physical generation, He is talking about those who are a family [gennema] of spiritual vipers or snakes, that span from the beginning to the Last Day:

Psalms 140:1-3
  • "Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;
  • Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they gathered together for war.
  • They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah."
The adder is a type of viper or snake representing Satan, and these people are of that family of evil. Men who, out of the evil in their hearts, bring forth wicked fruit. In this we see that there is not only precedence for the word generation not used in reference to the present time, but many times the context itself demands that it not be understood that way. A generation of vipers are a evil family [gennema], kindred spirits with the Devil. Christ was talking about that generation that last from the beginning to the Last Day, when all things are fulfilled. Nothing to do with 70AD or the premillennials' theory of 1948 Israel. The Spiritual Family (generation) of evil started from the beginning, and was continuing through Christ's days, and continued into the whole New Testament period UNTIL all things are fulfilled, then their generation will end.

And we should also not lose sight of the fact that in order for All to be fulfilled in that physical generation (which Christ declared in Matthew chapter 24), the time He refers to must have all those things fulfilled. Not a few, not some, not most, but ALL. So the time when all will be fulfilled must be at the end of the world/age, only then will this generation of evil pass.
 

Jay Ross

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Please present your systematic theology into years.

first age - creation of man, thru year ?, ?????????

second age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

third age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

fourth age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

fifth age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

sixth age - year ?, ???????, thru year ?, ????????

seventh age - year ?, ???????, thru year 7000, Jesus's Second Coming (according to Jay)
first age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 1 AA (After Adam) thru to the end of the year 1024 AA

second age -From year starting at the beginning of the year 1025 AA through to the end of the year 2,048 AA,

third age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 2,049 AA through to the end of the year, 3,072 AA

fourth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 3,073 AA through to the end of the year 4,096 AA

fifth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 4,097 AA through to the end of the year 5,120 AA

sixth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 5121 AA through to the end of the year 6,144 AA

seventh age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 6,145 AA through to the end of the year 7:168 AA,

The age of eternity starting from the start of the beginning of the year 7,169 AA

Now I have not used years BC or years AD in the above table as it only adds complications because we do not know how the dates derived from the Scriptures relate to the BC and AD years. Scholars are still arguing about this.

A number to convert the AA years to BC and AD years might be -4,100 where the resulting negative numbers correlate to years BC and the resulting positive numbers correlate to years AD.

I trust that you will understand the numbers.

Goodbye
 
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Jay Ross

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When Jesus returns, it will be 2000 years thereabout of when the Jews were taken captive into the nations in the first century. That is the 2 days.

In Matthew 24:31, when Jesus returns, He sends his angels out to gather the elect. The elect are the Jews, who will have become believers in Christ in the middle of the 7 years. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27, the 70th week, determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (see verse 4 below)

Their being gathered is a promise that God made in Deuteronomy 30:1-6. Jesus's return begins the third day of Hosea 6:1-3, the 1000 year millennium rule of Christ on earth.

Deuteronomy 30:
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Fair enough if this is what you believe, but I have come to a very different understanding. Your understanding is based upon the Jewish belief that the Promised Land was a "forever" reality whereas the reality from Scripture was that the Promised Land was given from around the time that Israel crossed the Jordan River up and ended when King David gained dominion over the last tracks of the land promised and then this land stripped off of the Nation of Israel after the death of King Solomon. God had promised King David that the Israelites would retain possession over the Land of Canaan even after the Exile, but that too was stripped from them.

When God in Ezekiel promised to gather the Israelites to Himself, he promised that he would plant them in His fertile soil and teach them on His religion where He had scattered them throughout the whole world. God in Jeremiah 31 also promised that He would make like new again His Covenant of a Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations again that He had made with the Nation of Israel at Mt Sinai.

We will see within six years according to your previous posts whether or not you have understood the End Time Prophecies as a whole.

Goodbye
 

RedFan

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I disagree.

There are two families of people of two contrasting and distinct seeds. Even as God Himself spoke of them in the Garden of Eden, and the enmity He declared would be between them. The children of God and children of the Devil are two diverse and distinct generations or families from these two seeds. The family of God extends all the way back to the beginning. Likewise, the family of Satan extends to the same period, illustrated vividly in the episode of Abel and Cain. The way that the word of God uses the phrase "the Generation of evil", makes it synonymous with the children (or family) of the Devil. It does NOT refer only to an immediate present day family group, or a nation Israel. The Generation of evil refers to all the seed of the Serpent throughout time, who are of that family by their Patriarchal relationship to the spirit of Satan. Just as the children of God refer to the whole family of God, which are a chosen generation, [genos] or family (1st Peter 2:9) extending throughout time. So it's not just people who happen to be living at the time in which the phrase was written. God uses these family relationships to illustrate those who are of the same spiritual kinship, as illustrated in passages like John chapter 8:

John 8:44
  • "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Once again we see that Christ is clearly explaining the divine truth that they were the kindred, seed or children of the Devil. They were part of a particular spiritual family group relationship and that is why Christ identifies their "father" as the Devil. Satan is the spiritual Patriarch reference for the whole generation or family of evil. Clearly, Satan has had many children throughout time, not merely these whom Christ was speaking to or has to do with 1948 nation of Israel in this immediate context. All those under Satan's spiritual control are the generation or family of evil which has existed from the beginning. In Biblical terms, they are the spiritual offspring (generation) of their Patriarch reference, which is that old Serpent the Devil and Satan. Just as when Christ speaks of the people as a generation of vipers, He is identifying that seed, these children, that family group, as a people who serve their father Satan. He is not talking about everyone in that physical generation or time period. Nor were all living in that physical (generation) time span, this generation Christ spoke of. Nor could they be, since they all were not children of Satan or of evil.

Matthew 12:32-35
  • "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
  • Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
  • O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
  • A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."
How can a [gennema] (meaning offspring or family) of vipers, children of the serpent, speak good things when they speak from their heart, which is full of evil. This family (translated generation) that Christ references is the seed of the serpent, children of vipers. That clearly cannot be all the physical generation alive at that time, which consists of the Apostles, John the Baptist, Mary, Elizabeth, or any of the true church of that period. They cannot commit the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Of necessity it has to be only the unregenerate 'family' of the viper Satan. Not the whole generation living at that time, He spoke of the family of Satan who cannot escape the damnation of Hell--that generation! Therefore, when Christ calls them the [gennema] of vipers, he is not referring to all those people of that time (as many often understand generation to to mean), but he is speaking only of the seed of the serpent, Satan. It is a family or generation of evil that cannot escape judgment, and Satan is their spiritual Patriarch father.

Matthew 23:32-34
  • Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
  • Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
  • Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:"
The well oiled myth that the phrase this generation always refers to a particular span of that contemporary time, is clearly not the case. Here Christ references the previous people (their fathers) who lived before, and who killed and persecuted the prophets, and includes them as this same generation (or family) of vipers and snakes. He also includes those who would come after and persecute His prophets. That proves it's not referring only to his contemporaries. Because it is self evident that if this word meant that all this generation (the way many understand the word) at that time were a bunch of snakes who couldn't escape the damnation of hell, then it would mean the wicked who came before them and after them, and killed the prophets and the Apostles, were not in that generation also. That contradicts the passage itself. The Apostles were of that physical generation "if" the word generation really meant what the Premillennial or Preterists) believe that it means. But obviously, Christ is not talking about that local contemporary physical generation, He is talking about those who are a family [gennema] of spiritual vipers or snakes, that span from the beginning to the Last Day:

Psalms 140:1-3
  • "Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;
  • Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they gathered together for war.
  • They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah."
The adder is a type of viper or snake representing Satan, and these people are of that family of evil. Men who, out of the evil in their hearts, bring forth wicked fruit. In this we see that there is not only precedence for the word generation not used in reference to the present time, but many times the context itself demands that it not be understood that way. A generation of vipers are a evil family [gennema], kindred spirits with the Devil. Christ was talking about that generation that last from the beginning to the Last Day, when all things are fulfilled. Nothing to do with 70AD or the premillennials' theory of 1948 Israel. The Spiritual Family (generation) of evil started from the beginning, and was continuing through Christ's days, and continued into the whole New Testament period UNTIL all things are fulfilled, then their generation will end.

And we should also not lose sight of the fact that in order for All to be fulfilled in that physical generation (which Christ declared in Matthew chapter 24), the time He refers to must have all those things fulfilled. Not a few, not some, not most, but ALL. So the time when all will be fulfilled must be at the end of the world/age, only then will this generation of evil pass.
Well, we'll just have to disagree. No doubt γενεὰ can refer to evil generations in the right context. But it can also refer to the average the length of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their children, again in the right context. So the task is to figure out which connotation is carried by γενεὰ αὕτη in Mark 13:30, Matt. 24:34 and Luke 21:32. And Mark 9:1, Matt. 16:28, and Luke 9:27 dovetail perfectly with the latter connotation. Let's not ignore that!

One aid here is to focus on how Jesus's words were understood. First Thessalonians, likely the very first part of the NT written, suggests that as Christians were dying they began to wonder about the prediction that the Lord would return within a generation -- and Paul tried to calm their concerns.
 

Douggg

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first age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 1 AA (After Adam) thru to the end of the year 1024 AA

second age -From year starting at the beginning of the year 1025 AA through to the end of the year 2,048 AA,

third age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 2,049 AA through to the end of the year, 3,072 AA

fourth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 3,073 AA through to the end of the year 4,096 AA

fifth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 4,097 AA through to the end of the year 5,120 AA

sixth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 5121 AA through to the end of the year 6,144 AA

seventh age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 6,145 AA through to the end of the year 7:168 AA,
Please, present what distinguishes each of those seven ages.

first age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 1 AA (After Adam) thru to the end of the year 1024 AA
distinguished by ?

second age -From year starting at the beginning of the year 1025 AA through to the end of the year 2,048 AA,
distinguished by ?

third age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 2,049 AA through to the end of the year, 3,072 AA
distinguished by ?

fourth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 3,073 AA through to the end of the year 4,096 AA
distinguished by ?

fifth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 4,097 AA through to the end of the year 5,120 AA
distinguished by ?

sixth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 5121 AA through to the end of the year 6,144 AA
distinguished by ?

seventh age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 6,145 AA through to the end of the year 7:168 AA,
distinguished by ?
 

Jay Ross

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Please, present what distinguishes each of those seven ages.

first age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 1 AA (After Adam) thru to the end of the year 1024 AA
distinguished by ?

second age -From year starting at the beginning of the year 1025 AA through to the end of the year 2,048 AA,
distinguished by ?

third age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 2,049 AA through to the end of the year, 3,072 AA
distinguished by ?

fourth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 3,073 AA through to the end of the year 4,096 AA
distinguished by ?

fifth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 4,097 AA through to the end of the year 5,120 AA
distinguished by ?

sixth age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 5121 AA through to the end of the year 6,144 AA
distinguished by ?

seventh age - From the year starting at the beginning of the year 6,145 AA through to the end of the year 7:168 AA,
distinguished by ?

The ages are distinguished by the year's chronological count.

Surely with your knowledge of the scripture you could distinguish each of the ages, like the fifth and sixth ages are distinguished by the fact that during these two ages the iniquities of the fathers have been and still will, signify the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children.

Goodbye
 

TribulationSigns

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Well, we'll just have to disagree. No doubt γενεὰ can refer to evil generations in the right context. But it can also refer to the average the length of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their children, again in the right context. So the task is to figure out which connotation is carried by γενεὰ αὕτη in Mark 13:30, Matt. 24:34 and Luke 21:32. And Mark 9:1, Matt. 16:28, and Luke 9:27 dovetail perfectly with the latter connotation. Let's not ignore that!

Matthew 24:33-34
  • "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
  • Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Most Christians understand that this chapter is speaking about later day occurrences, and so they are puzzled as to how the phrase "this generation" fits into that context. The confusion exists because so many Christians are unaware that there are several ways that this Greek word [genea] that is often translated generation, is used in the Bible. It is often in contrast to extra-Biblical or secular dictionary definitions. First of all, this word is from the root [genos], meaning a common birth or kin relationship, such as family. By extension it is used in the Scriptures in four very distinct, and yet intimately related ways.

1. Through kin or family, it denotes a particular member's patriarchal life span (generation) or related time period.
2. Through kin or family, it denotes a physical family's ancestry, posterity, lineage or genealogy.
3. Through kin or family, it denotes a spiritual family ancestry, as a kindred of Satan or evil.
4. Through kin or family, it denotes a spiritual family ancestry, as a kindred of Christ or righteousness.

These are four related and yet very distinct and Biblically justifiable applications of this word. The word translated generation is unambiguously used in the Bible in all these contexts. Even most of those holding to a Praeterit Eschatology will not deny this fact.

Another point that is worthy of note is that Scripture has always dated itself by Patriarchs or founding father figures. Even to this day we date this way (probably without even giving it much thought). Whenever someone says that this is the year 1999, they are dating (though not accurately) by our Patriarch reference, Christ. In other words, we are saying that we are living 1,999 years after the birth of Christ (AD, anno domini, or the year of our Lord). He is the Patriarch reference by which a large part of the civilized world dates today. This is a biblical historical practice that dates back to the very beginning, and is explained in depth in my paper on the "The Biblical Timeline of Creation." My point here being, the year we use is really a Patriarch family or generation reference.

Moreover, there are actually four words that are translated "generation" in the New Testament. They are {genesis], [gennema], [genos] and [genea]. The root of all three refer back to family or kindred Of course, "by extension" it can also mean the period of a family line, or even a Patriarch's offspring, but the root is family. For example, if we were to declare that something occurred in the 4th generation, we would be saying that it happened in the family period of the 4th Patriarch child. So it would be illustrating a particular family relationship removed by three from the original Patriarch reference. We see a form of this in the listing of Christ's family in the first chapter of Matthew:

Matthew 1:1
  • "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."
This is the book of the [genesis], the origin, the family source or kindred of Jesus Christ. Obviously so, as it is a list of His ancestral or family history, again pointing to the fact that all these words are rooted in the "family" relationship. In other words, they are only listed there because they are his family line or ancestry. Understanding this principle, we can see how God unambiguously uses these words translated generation in Scripture, to signify not only the physical family of God, but the Spiritual family of God. Not coincidentally, He also uses it to speak of the spiritual family of His adversary, the Devil.

Selah!
 

Douggg

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The ages are distinguished by the year's chronological count.

Surely with your knowledge of the scripture you could distinguish each of the ages, like the fifth and sixth ages are distinguished by the fact that during these two ages the iniquities of the fathers have been and still will, signify the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children.

Goodbye
Jay, I don't believe that there are seven such ages . The seven ages systematic theology is something that you deduced. So it is not up to me to provide what distinguishes each of the seven ages.

Dispesationalists have a systematic theology as well, which they refer to as seven dispensational periods (but they are not of equal length as in your seven ages, each as 1024 years long). I am not a dispensationalist, btw. They distinguish the seven dispensational periods as...

1. Innocence

2. Conscience

3. Human Government

4. Promise

5. Law

6. Grace

7. Kingdom
 

Douggg

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@Jay Ross

I would skip the seven ages and instead focus on what we can clearly find in the text of the bible, and that is the time frames for end time events.

end times frames.jpg

A Jew (Judaism) who does not yet believe in Jesus, has the time frames given in the Tanach (what the Jews call their bible). Those time frames on a table would look like this. What the Jews call the Final Redemption is actually in Matthew 24:31. The gathering of all of the Jews from the nations back to the land of Israel.



Jewish end time frames.jpg
 
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Jay Ross

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Jay, I don't believe that there are seven such ages . The seven ages systematic theology is something that you deduced. So it is not up to me to provide what distinguishes each of the seven ages.

Good for you Douggg, since you do not believe in there being seven ages but Hosea 6:1-3 and Lamentation 5:19 both confirm that there are three ages between the birth of Christ and when he returns to judge the peoples of the earth.

As for your chart, it does not provide the evidence that confirms even your theory.

Goodbye.
 

Douggg

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Good for you Douggg, since you do not believe in there being seven ages but Hosea 6:1-3 and Lamentation 5:19 both confirm that there are three ages between the birth of Christ and when he returns to judge the peoples of the earth.

As for your chart, it does not provide the evidence that confirms even your theory.

Goodbye.
Jay, you have an eschatology view built around the seven ages systematic theology that you have deduced.

Differently, I have an eschatology view built around the time frames for end times events found in the bible.
 

ewq1938

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My "understanding of when the referenced Generation starts" comes from the actual words of Scripture. Jesus said "THIS generation" -- the one he was addressing -- would not pass away before the predicted events occurred. There is nothing in his quoted words to suggest that "THIS generation" was a reference to "THE FOLLOWING generation after this one." If a "generation" is code for a millenium


It's not in fact the generation is not about a period of time but people alive at a certain time. Jesus also used a greek word that can mean either THIS or THAT so claiming he said "this" and that must mean the current time/people isn't a valid position.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

this:

G3778
houtos houtoi haute¯ hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

The verse equally can be translated as, "Verily I say unto you, THAT generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Many people use "this generation" as supposed proof Jesus meant the one he lived in and was speaking to but that is faulty since the word equally can mean "that" so we would have "that generation".

Since the generation he lived in and was speaking to did not see the sun and moon go dark, stars fall, the sign of the son of man nor saw the son of man coming, nor the angels gathering the elect which would have included the disciples means without a doubt Jesus was speaking of a future generation.

Additionally, you can talk about a future generation and refer to it as "this generation". Example, "The generation of 3000AD will populate other planets. This generation will be known as the Space Generation."

Equally a past generation can be referred to as "that generation".
 

Jay Ross

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Differently, I have an eschatology view built around the time frames for end times events found in the bible.

Good for you Douggg, but how does Daniel 12:7 fit into your chart when the time span of Dan12:7 spans from the time of Daniel right up and until the final judgement, for three and a half ages. Please note that Daniel lived around the time period of three and a half ages from when Adam was created. Just note that the time frame from the time of Daniel up and until the time of the end when all of the prophetic words that Daniel had been told, would be finished would be finished after 3,584 solar years which is 43,008 months.

Daniel 12:7 does not fit within your time period of seven years or 84 solar months.

Your understanding is a hog patch of your imagination which you believe is correct.

Oh well Goodbye then
 
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