Roughly Charting the scriptures

[Douggg]

Good for you Douggg, but how does Daniel 12:7 fit into your chart when the time span of Dan12:7 spans from the time of Daniel right up and until the final judgement, for three and a half ages. Please note that Daniel lived around the time period of three and a half ages from when Adam was created. Just note that the time frame from the time of Daniel up and until the time of the end when all of the prophetic words that Daniel had been told, would be finished would be finished after 3,584 solar years which is 43,008 months.

Daniel 12:7 does not fit within your time period of seven years or 84 solar months.

Your understanding is a hog patch of your imagination which you believe is correct.

Oh well Goodbye then

Jay, Daniel 12 is about the most difficult time for Daniel's people in their existence, Daniel 12:1.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

It will be a time when the abomination of desolation is setup with two end times time frames of prophecy of 1290 days and 1335 days. Daniel 12:11-12.

Daniel 12:7 (on my table below) is about Daniel's people being under duress that time, times, half time expression for roughly three and half years. As they will be under persecution by Satan, Revelation 12:14, (also on my table), who will know that he has only a little time left.

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel 12:7 (on my table below) is about Daniel's people being under duress that time, time, half time expression for roughly three and half years. As they will be under persecution by Satan, Revelation 12:14, (also on my table), who will know that he has only a little time left.

But Douggg, Dan 12:7 is about something else: -

Daniel 12:5-7: - 5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?"

7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

You can believe what you want, but for me and My House, we will worship the Lord.

Goodbye

 

[RedFan]

It's not in fact the generation is not about a period of time but people alive at a certain time. Jesus also used a greek word that can mean either THIS or THAT so claiming he said "this" and that must mean the current time/people isn't a valid position.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

this:

G3778
houtos houtoi haute¯ hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

The verse equally can be translated as, "Verily I say unto you, THAT generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Many people use "this generation" as supposed proof Jesus meant the one he lived in and was speaking to but that is faulty since the word equally can mean "that" so we would have "that generation".

Since the generation he lived in and was speaking to did not see the sun and moon go dark, stars fall, the sign of the son of man nor saw the son of man coming, nor the angels gathering the elect which would have included the disciples means without a doubt Jesus was speaking of a future generation.

Additionally, you can talk about a future generation and refer to it as "this generation". Example, "The generation of 3000AD will populate other planets. This generation will be known as the Space Generation."

Equally a past generation can be referred to as "that generation".

So you start with an axiom: Jesus could not have been mistaken.

 

[Douggg]

But Douggg, Dan 12:7 is about something else: -

Daniel 12:5-7: - 5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?"

7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

You can believe what you want, but for me and My House, we will worship the Lord.

Goodbye

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The wonders will be time of the end. And will last the time, times, half times. Roughly three and a half years.

 

[ewq1938]

So you start with an axiom: Jesus could not have been mistaken.

A wise way to start any bible discussion.

 

[Timtofly]

My "understanding of when the referenced Generation starts" comes from the actual words of Scripture. Jesus said "THIS generation" -- the one he was addressing -- would not pass away before the predicted events occurred. There is nothing in his quoted words to suggest that "THIS generation" was a reference to "THE FOLLOWING generation after this one." If a "generation" is code for a millenium, then whether he and his audience were at the beginning of one, the middle of one or towards the end of one, the absolute end point for when the events would occur would be the Eleventh Century. So either you're wrong or Jesus was wrong. (Or both.)

"This generation" can only be the generation that sees the fig tree blooming in all aspects of these 3 accounts.

Jesus never said the generation that sees Jerusalem destroyed would see all these things.

Where is the phrase in any Scripture, where Jesus said, "You all are the generation that will see all things"?

No where!

Luke 21:

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

This does not say they will see all things. It says all things will have been fulfilled, even if it takes 2,000 years. Still the generation that sees the fig tree bloom, will be alive when all things are fulfilled.

Matthew 24:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation that sees all things, will not see Jerusalem destroyed, because the destruction of Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the list of future events. Jerusalem being destroyed was only in the list of things in Luke 21.

The "ye" in both passages is not those hearing that day, because those people did not even see Jerusalem destroyed. They were all dead within 40 years. The only person not dead at that point is John. And many want to say that Revelation was written, and John was dead prior to 70AD. So literally none of the generation who would have been listening that day were even alive to see the fig tree wither away in 70AD, much less bloom again after being dead for hundreds of years, from 70AD to 1948AD.

So only the "ye" that experiences 1948 would know all things had been fulfilled. That was 2 generations before my time. I have seen 2 more generations in my lifetime. So not even the last generation, would see all things, as the current generation wishes that Israel was not even a nation, as they are not the generation that saw the fig tree bloom.

For example:

The current 46th President of the United States is 81. He was only 6 years old in 1948. He is hardly a candidate to appreciate the full experience at 6 years old, but his parents would. Now he would understand it more than his grandkids do. And people complain that he is too old, and his health failing him. Can you imagine if we had a President who is 100 that would truly be the generation that saw the fig tree bloom?

That is the point Jesus made. That some people currently around 100, would still be alive at the very end, and would see all these things take place.

In Scripture we see only 2 individuals alive, Anna and Simeon who were the generation expecting the coming Messiah after 434 years, as written in Daniel. They were not still alive 30 years later when Jesus actually died on the Cross. Then you have many today who don't even accept that is what the parable of the fig tree means.

How can you say that generation at the Temple that week saw all things, when they did not even see 70AD? Those who claim 70AD was when all happened, don't even think John was alive at that point.

Jesus was not talking to only 6 year olds that week, as far as we know.

 

[Timtofly]

When Jesus returns, it will be 2000 years thereabout of when the Jews were taken captive into the nations in the first century. That is the 2 days.

In Matthew 24:31, when Jesus returns, He sends his angels out to gather the elect. The elect are the Jews, who will have become believers in Christ in the middle of the 7 years. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27, the 70th week, determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (see verse 4 below)

Their being gathered is a promise that God made in Deuteronomy 30:1-6. Jesus's return begins the third day of Hosea 6:1-3, the 1000 year millennium rule of Christ on earth.

Deuteronomy 30:
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Are you not saying an age is also 1,000 years?

 

[RedFan]

"This generation" can only be the generation that sees the fig tree blooming in all aspects of these 3 accounts.

Not true. "This generation" (ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη) can also mean "the present generation." And I think it does.