The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

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The Light

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1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

You make so many posts I don't know if you have answered this question.

Where in Revelation is the rapture............Chapter and verse?
 

WPM

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Where in scripture does it say that the Feast of Trumpets is a day of blowing trumpets?

What happens on the feast of trumpets? There are 100 trumpet blasts and there is the last trump. If you have an issue with this, take it up with the Jews and tell them they have been doing this wrong for a long time.
This is starting to get old.

Where in Scripture does it say there will be 100 trumpet blasts at the end before and including the last trumpet?​

 

WPM

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1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

You make so many posts I don't know if you have answered this question.

Where in Revelation is the rapture............Chapter and verse?
That does not say what you claim. You know it! You have obviously nothing. Pretrib cannot be found anywhere.

Those texts simply describe the one and only coming of Christ.
 

Randy Kluth

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Quote:
" the Flood is not used as a choreography detailing the exact sequence of the 2nd Coming. It is used as an example of God's Wrath without all of the inserted itinerary. This is not an exegesis at all. The assumptions being made are not doctrinally asserted in the Scriptures"

Uh, no, it is so hurtful to your doctrine, that there is, in honesty, no way to spin it away from what is ACTUALLY SAYS.
Mat 24
37. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Hello?
"In the days BEFORE THE FLOOD, EATING, AND DRINKING..NORMAL LIFE AND PEACETIME "
"Watch as He is coming before the flood"

Before the flood, one taken/ left
Vivid chronology

EXACT CHRONOLOGY.
UNMISTAKABLE, and also dishonest, to try and rewrite God's Holy Book.
Red flags galore.
The only thing you've proven here is that you are guessing at what "one taken and one left" means. Both groups are being judged at the Roman invasion, some being carted away in captivity and some left alive to man the orchards and fields.

This was the order of things in the biblical accounts of foreign invasions into Israel. Some were taken and some were left in the land--usually the poorest among them.

You think this is the Rapture, because popular songs were written expressing this bad theology and because books were written expressing a theology that isn't even in the Scriptures. You have to take parables to prove doctrines that aren't even in the Bible. You have to warp symbolism to fit your preconceived notions, turning one historical event into a chronology of your predicted future event.

You might as well make the 10 Virgins parable into an exact account of the Coming of Christ by having Christians and non-Christians go out and purchase "spiritual oil" at the sound of the Groom's call. Wait--that doesn't fit Pretrib Rapture either! You can't go out and buy "spiritual oil" after the call comes because "the call is the Trumpet call of the Rapture, and it is too late!"

You don't get it--parables are not intended to be exact chronologies of what they represent! The chronology of a parable is different than the chronology of what they represent by definition!

And what do you prove by reading that people in Noah's day weren't expecting the Flood? That is the same as it is today when unbelievers do not expect God's eternal judgment upon their souls? There is no difference between God's wrath in Noah's day and the coming outpouring of God's wrath at Armageddon except that one involved one small righteous family and at the end of the age there will be believers in all nations, though persecuted by a world largely committed to unbelief?

You clearly don't know how parables relate to what they represent. You clearly don't know how to compare one story with an entirely different story with only a moral lesson comparing between them!

The Flood of Noah was never meant to be exactly like the Coming of Christ, which is an entirely different story. They are only meant to be compared with respect to their commonalities. Both brought salvation to God's People and judgment to the unbelieving world. Regardless of your eschatology, these two different accounts are comparable, though not in the details that pertain to each story.

The commonality of judgment and the commonality of preparedness or not make no determination as to your eschatology. You have to impose something foreign, to have your view, if you insist on inserting an eschatology that isn't even in the Bible.
 

The Light

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This is starting to get old.

Where in Scripture does it say there will be 100 trumpet blasts at the end before and including the last trumpet?​

I told you. Talk to the Jews and tell them that they are not observing the feast of trumpets like you want them to. Meanwhile I will continue to see what they do on the day of blowing trumpets.

And I see you were unable to answer the one question that I have asked multiple times. If you have answered I did not see it.
 

The Light

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That does not say what you claim. You know it! You have obviously nothing. Pretrib cannot be found anywhere.

Those texts simply describe the one and only coming of Christ.
Those that follow the doctrines of unbelieving men have very little chance of seeing or hearing. You are too occupied with protecting that fallen doctrine to search for the truth.
 

WPM

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I told you. Talk to the Jews and tell them that they are not observing the feast of trumpets like you want them to. Meanwhile I will continue to see what they do on the day of blowing trumpets.

And I see you were unable to answer the one question that I have asked multiple times. If you have answered I did not see it.
Ok, so you have nothing? I thought so!
 

WPM

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Those that follow the doctrines of unbelieving men have very little chance of seeing or hearing. You are too occupied with protecting that fallen doctrine to search for the truth.
Projection. The opposite is the truth.

More avoidance.

You are describing yourself.
 

Randy Kluth

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Those that follow the doctrines of unbelieving men have very little chance of seeing or hearing. You are too occupied with protecting that fallen doctrine to search for the truth.
Are you suggesting that those who reject Pretribism are "unbelievers?" If so, what biblical statement is not being "believed in?"
 

The Light

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Are you suggesting that those who reject Pretribism are "unbelievers?" If so, what biblical statement is not being "believed in?"
No. I am not suggesting that. I'm saying his doctrine is based on teachings of unbelieving men that didn't think God would keep His Word and restore Israel as a nation. Of course Israel is a nation and yet this false doctrine lives on.
 

Truth7t7

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I didn't say John stated anything.
The Angel had carried John away in the Spirit to see a woman riding on a beast and he wondered in amazement.
The Angel went on to explain John.

The Angel told John 5 has fallen and the 6th is now reigning. John was living in Roman times.
Rome has absolutely nothing to do with the book of Revelation, problem is you follow reformed preterist eschatology
 

The Light

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Projection. The opposite is the truth.

More avoidance.

You are describing yourself.
So you are saying you are unable to locate your rapture in the book of Revelation.

Additionally your beliefs have the Church going through the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath. But the truth obviously is not the goal.
 

Randy Kluth

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No. I am not suggesting that. I'm saying his doctrine is based on teachings of unbelieving men that didn't think God would keep His Word and restore Israel as a nation. Of course Israel is a nation and yet this false doctrine lives on.
Okay, I was a too-late Louie. ;) I wasn't really following the conversation, and was in the midst of my typical Postrib tirade vs. Pretrib.

I agree with you on this that Israel has a future. I'm just enjoying my time of agreement with the Amill crowd because we've had a number of intense arguments in the Amil vs Premil category.

But I've known for a long time that many Amills favor the Postrib view. And I want to spend a little time doubling down on that. And I seriously hope many Pretribs will re-think their position as a purely "modern view." As such, it cannot be a truly *biblical view,* as I see it.

I mean, *everybody* sees their view as "biblical." But again, a truly doctrinal position must be based an *explicit doctrinal teaching" in the Bible. It cannot legitimately be based on parables and symbolisms, nor on pure inferences that anybody can read their doctrine into.

But thanks for straightening me out on this matter. My apologies for not digging deeper.
 

The Light

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Okay, I was a too-late Louie. ;) I wasn't really following the conversation, and was in the midst of my typical Postrib tirade vs. Pretrib.

I agree with you on this that Israel has a future. I'm just enjoying my time of agreement with the Amill crowd because we've had a number of intense arguments in the Amil vs Premil category.

But I've known for a long time that many Amills favor the Postrib view. And I want to spend a little time doubling down on that. And I seriously hope many Pretribs will re-think their position as a purely "modern view." As such, it cannot be a truly *biblical view,* as I see it.

I mean, *everybody* sees their view as "biblical." But again, a truly doctrinal position must be based an *explicit doctrinal teaching" in the Bible. It cannot legitimately be based on parables and symbolisms, nor on pure inferences that anybody can read their doctrine into.

But thanks for straightening me out on this matter. My apologies for not digging deeper.
No worries. You do realize I'm also post trib?
 

covenantee

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Jesus was born to sit on David's throne in Jerusalem.
That wasn't the purpose of His Birth. First and foremost, He came to "save His people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21) and to "destroy the works of the devil". (1 John 3:8). He sat on David's throne as a result of His resurrection (Acts 2:31). That occurred during His First Coming, not His Second Coming as you erroneously believe.
Not the one you think was destroyed, nor any throne in heaven, as that is what you think that David's throne is in heaven.
Then what one?
David's throne is in reference to the legal authority passed down from the ancestor of Jesus by human birth to rule over Israel.
So Jesus will sit on "the legal authority passed down from the ancestor of Jesus by human birth to rule over Israel".

Describe the logistics and mechanics of your claim. :laughing:
David's throne is not a spiritual concept as God ruling from heaven, the spiritual side of the physical throne of David that you claim is in heaven.
David's literal physical throne is long destroyed. That leaves only a spiritual throne for Jesus to occupy.
The Prince to come part has not been fulfilled. You say that is Jesus, but you deny that Jesus will physically sit on a future throne in Jerusalem.
What tangent are you on? There's no "Prince" in Acts 2:29-32.

You also deny that Jesus will physically sit on a future throne in Jerusalem. You said that His throne was "in reference to the legal authority passed down from the ancestor of Jesus by human birth to rule over Israel". That's not a literal physical future throne in Jerusalem. Nor is there any "Jerusalem" in Acts 2:29-32.

Jesus will be King on David's throne at the Second Coming.
Jesus has been seated on David's spiritual throne in Heaven since His Resurrection. Acts 2:29-32; Ephesians 1:19-23
At the 7th Trumpet, Jesus will be declared King over the rest of the nations as well.
He's been King over all nations since His Resurrection.
Certainly you don't think the 7th Trumpet has sounded, do you? Did Peter in Acts 2 declare a 7th Trumpet has sounded?
Did Peter say that a trumpet was needed in Acts.2?
"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Do you have an aversion to verse numbers? :laughing:
Peter points out that Jesus was the seed of David to be the rightful heir to the throne.
True.
David also prophecied that Jesus would be the anointed Messiah and have to die as well.
Knowing that God had promised that He would raise up Christ to sit on his (David's) throne, David "spake of the resurrection of Christ." Acts 2:31
But Peter pointed out that Jesus was not dead, but arose and ascended into heaven and was granted all authority, while having to wait until all enemies were subdued.
True. And on whose throne was He seated when He ascended?
Then when God was ready, Jesus would return to that throne of David.
He was already on David's throne. No need to return to where He already was.
Being both Lord of Israel on David's throne and the Messiah was the point.
Of course. Being both already.
But sitting on David's throne is still future, as the Second Coming has yet to happen.
But sitting on David's throne has been reality since Jesus' Resurrection at His First Coming.
That message was reiterated by Gabriel to Daniel, and Daniel was given a time frame for when Jesus would appear.
At the beginning of the 70th week.
The second appearance would be as King, not the first appearance.
He was King upon being enthroned on David's throne at His Resurrection in His first appearance.
 
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jeffweeder

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Rome has absolutely nothing to do with the book of Revelation, problem is you follow reformed preterist eschatology
:rolleyes:
Rev 1
9 I, John, your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patient endurance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos, [exiled there] because of [my preaching of] the word of God [regarding eternal salvation] and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit in special communication with the Holy Spirit and empowered to receive and record the revelation from Jesus Christ] on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,
11 saying,
“Write on a scroll what you see [in this revelation], and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”


19 So write the things which you have seen [in the vision], and the things which are [now happening], and the things which will take place after these things.


What power exiled John to patmos and was responsible for the Churches persecution?
 

rebuilder 454

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The only thing you've proven here is that you are guessing at what "one taken and one left" means. Both groups are being judged at the Roman invasion, some being carted away in captivity and some left alive to man the orchards and fields.

This was the order of things in the biblical accounts of foreign invasions into Israel. Some were taken and some were left in the land--usually the poorest among them.

You think this is the Rapture, because popular songs were written expressing this bad theology and because books were written expressing a theology that isn't even in the Scriptures. You have to take parables to prove doctrines that aren't even in the Bible. You have to warp symbolism to fit your preconceived notions, turning one historical event into a chronology of your predicted future event.

You might as well make the 10 Virgins parable into an exact account of the Coming of Christ by having Christians and non-Christians go out and purchase "spiritual oil" at the sound of the Groom's call. Wait--that doesn't fit Pretrib Rapture either! You can't go out and buy "spiritual oil" after the call comes because "the call is the Trumpet call of the Rapture, and it is too late!"

You don't get it--parables are not intended to be exact chronologies of what they represent! The chronology of a parable is different than the chronology of what they represent by definition!

And what do you prove by reading that people in Noah's day weren't expecting the Flood? That is the same as it is today when unbelievers do not expect God's eternal judgment upon their souls? There is no difference between God's wrath in Noah's day and the coming outpouring of God's wrath at Armageddon except that one involved one small righteous family and at the end of the age there will be believers in all nations, though persecuted by a world largely committed to unbelief?

You clearly don't know how parables relate to what they represent. You clearly don't know how to compare one story with an entirely different story with only a moral lesson comparing between them!

The Flood of Noah was never meant to be exactly like the Coming of Christ, which is an entirely different story. They are only meant to be compared with respect to their commonalities. Both brought salvation to God's People and judgment to the unbelieving world. Regardless of your eschatology, these two different accounts are comparable, though not in the details that pertain to each story.

The commonality of judgment and the commonality of preparedness or not make no determination as to your eschatology. You have to impose something foreign, to have your view, if you insist on inserting an eschatology that isn't even in the Bible.

QUOTE:
"don't get it--parables are not intended to be exact chronologies of what they represent! The chronology of a parable is different than the chronology of what they represent by definition!"

LOL
Chronological sequences ARE PART Of the wedding feast parable, and the virgins parable.
Definately a series of events VIVIDLY declared ,IN SEQUENCE.


Jesus said," before the flood". ( nothing of a parable. Rather a straight out Bible and historical SETTING. PURE 100% FACT)
Change it...modify it...dislike it...omit it...whatever you choose.
You can not honestly read it and accept it.
You literally can not do it.
...at this point I am forcing you to change the bible.
It was JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE. OUT OF HIS MOUTH, HIS AWESOME WORDS.
" BEFORE THE FLOOD SETTING,PEACETIME AND NORMAL LIFE
1) I AM COMING
2) I WILL TAKE 50 % OF A GROUP
3 ) WATCH AND BE READY IN THE PRETRIB SETTING.

Will await your changes to the Holy Book
 
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