The “Return” of Christ: What Does it Mean?

[Matthias]

Yes. It is necessary to raise the alarm.

Then even you acknowledge that I’m acting responsibly as a minister of the lord Jesus Messiah.

Jesus promised to come again …

Yes. But he promised that he himself would come again, and that hasn’t happened yet. It will.

… but He also warned about false teachers and false messiahs.

Yes. Balla’u’llah is a false teacher and a false messiah.

There is no new revelation.

Therefore, an investigation on whether Bahá'u'lláh represents the return of Christ is warranted.

Yes.

 

[Matthias]

It has not. That's why faith is necessary

Then you must assert that his disciples, among whom are the Apostles, did not literally see him following his resurrection.

But if you have proofs that don't need faith, because they are objective evidence, bring them in.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Spiritualized away by Baba’u’llah and his disciples.

Spiritualized? Yes.
Spiritualized away? No.

Christ is not away, but closer to you and to millions at the same time, precisely because He does not need a body. He does not need to dig into your freezer to grab something to eat, nor asks you permission to sleep in your sofa tonight so that He can fly tomorrow to visit another Christian in Australia.

As I have said, if we give the body of Christ all kind of non-human, non-physical properties, then it becomes irrelevant any debate on whether Jesus has a body or not. It would be the same than saying He is a spirit.

 

[Matthias]

Spiritualized? Yes.
Spiritualized away? No.

You and I will never be able to agree on that. Our readers will have to decide for themselves.

Christ is not away, but closer to you and to millions at the same time, precisely because He does not need a body. He does not need to dig into your freezer to grab something to eat, nor asks you permission to sleep in your sofa tonight so that He can fly tomorrow to visit another Christian in Australia.

As I have said, if we give the body of Christ all kind of non-human, non-physical properties, then it becomes irrelevant any debate on whether Jesus has a body or not. It would be the same than saying He is a spirit.

 

[Behold]

The New Testament stands or falls on their witness of the bodily resurrected Christ.

-

After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

New Living Translation
After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.

English Standard Version
Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

Berean Standard Bible
After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

Berean Literal Bible
Thereafter He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, the greater part of whom remain until now, although some have fallen asleep.

King James Bible
After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

New King James Version
After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

New American Standard Bible
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

NASB 1995
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

NASB 1977
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

Legacy Standard Bible
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep.

Amplified Bible
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, the majority of whom are still alive, but some have fallen asleep [in death].

Christian Standard Bible
Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers and sisters at one time; most of them are still alive, but some have fallen asleep.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time; most of them are still alive, but some have fallen asleep.

American Standard Version
then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain until now, but some are fallen asleep;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And after that, he appeared to more than 500 brethren together, many of whom remain until now, and some of them have fallen asleep.

 

[Behold]

Christ is not away, precisely because He does not need a body.

Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

New Living Translation
Look at my hands. Look at my feet. You can see that it’s really me. Touch me and make sure that I am not a ghost, because ghosts don’t have bodies, as you see that I do.”

English Standard Version
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Berean Standard Bible
Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

Berean Literal Bible
See My hands and My feet, that I am He. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see Me having."

King James Bible
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

New King James Version
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

New American Standard Bible
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you plainly see that I have.”

NASB 1995
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

NASB 1977
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Legacy Standard Bible
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Amplified Bible
Look at [the marks in] My hands and My feet, [and see] that it is I Myself. Touch Me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.”

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You and I will never be able to agree on that. Our readers will have to decide for themselves.

You believe that the body of Christ has all kind of non-physical properties.
Yet, you believe it is physical. You believe that spiritual bodies are physical bodies with non-physical attributes.

Well, that requires faith, and is not very different from saying Christ is a spirit.
You can't explain what a spiritual body is, and I can't explain what a spirit is.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

How would you recognize Jesus, if He appeared to you today? I extend the same question to @Matthias
We don't have any photograph, any DNA of Jesus as to make comparisons with Jesus of Nazareth.
A surgeon (and even a non-surgeon) can easily create scars on the hands, feet and side of a 33-year old volunteer of Semitic features.
So, how would you recognize Him?

 

[GTW27]

You and I will never be able to agree on that. Our readers will have to decide for themselves.

If per chance you find this interaction with Pancho replaying in you head, put on the whole armor of God. I have perceived what is behind this.
The message to true Christians is "what if, or could it be so" in the same way as, "Did God really say?

 

[Behold]

How would you recognize Jesus, if He appeared to you today?

You need to realize that Christians trust in Christ, whom they've never seen.
And you need to realize that Jesus is INSIDE, every Born again Believer....
So, we recognize Him, even tho, we've never seen His Fact or His Body.

Here is how we KNOW Him now, and will Know Him when He arrives for us.

Like this.
-
New International Version
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

New Living Translation
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

English Standard Version
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Berean Standard Bible
My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.

Berean Literal Bible
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

King James Bible
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

New King James Version
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

New American Standard Bible
My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

NASB 1995
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

NASB 1977
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

Legacy Standard Bible
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

Amplified Bible
The sheep that are My own hear My voice and listen to Me; I know them, and they follow Me.

Christian Standard Bible
My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.

American Standard Version
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow Me.”

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

If per chance you find this interaction with Pancho replaying in you head, put on the whole armor of God. I have perceived what is behind this.
The message to true Christians is "what if, or could it be so" in the same way as, "Did God really say?

One thing is what the Bible says, and a different thing what the Bible teaches.

The Gospel presents the case of the devil using biblical texts to tempt Jesus at the highest point of the temple, asking him to throw Himself down.
The devil was taken the verses literally, without appealing to reason.
The texts, taken from Psalms, implied (if taken literally) that God would not allow Jesus to be hurt.
Jesus, however, appealed to reason. Reason told Jesus that, if He threw himself down, he would die without having met his mission, which was to deliver the Message. So He responded by appealing to another biblical text that suited that rationale. Let's read:

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city and set Him on the highest point of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written, "He shall give His angels charge concerning you" and "In their hands they shall lift you up, lest at any time you dash your foot against a stone.’”​

​

Jesus said to him, “It is also written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”​

 

[Behold]

if He threw himself down, he would die without having met his mission,

Jesus didnt do what the Devil requested because to do this would have been to SUBMIT to the DEVIL.

This is pretty obvious, @Pancho Frijoles

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You need to realize that Christians trust in Christ, whom they've never seen.
And you need to realize that Jesus is INSIDE, every Born again Believer....
So, we recognize Him, even tho, we've never seen His Fact or His Body.

Here is how we KNOW Him now, and will Know Him when He arrives for us.

Like this.
-
New International Version
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Excellent answer, my brother.
As you can see, you would not rely in any aspect of Jesus body to follow Him.
It wouldn't matter if He appeared taller, or shorter, or younger, or older, or darker, or lighter than you imagine. It wouldn't matter if he appeared shaved and with a haircut different from what you imagine.
It is the spirit of Jesus, who is with you, INSIDE, who you follow.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus didnt do what the Devil requested because to do this would have been to SUBMIT to the DEVIL.

This is pretty obvious, @Pancho Frijoles

I agree.
What is not so obvious to some, is that, to support his claim, the devil presented biblical verses that, taken literally, out of context, would have made Jesus fall into temptation. Jesus, however, appealed to reason to choose another verse that was more suitable for the reality he was facing.
When reading the Bible, it is more important to ask ourselves : "What does God want me to do? " than "What does the verse say?"

 

[GTW27]

"When reading the Bible, it is more important to ask ourselves : "What does God want me to do? " than "What does the verse say?"


"Did God really say?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

"Did God really say?

Do you believe that God also speaks through your reason, GTW27?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Then even you acknowledge that I’m acting responsibly as a minister of the lord Jesus Messiah.

Sure I do.
And the more you support your statements with logical reasoning and Scriptures, the more responsibly you will act, and the more fruitful your ministry will be among our readers.

 

[GTW27]

Do you believe that God also speaks through your reason, GTW27?

The Lord's ways are far above our ways Pancho.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The Lord's ways are far above our ways Pancho.

I agree, my brother.

The Lord's ways are far above our ways, and yet God speaks to us through Scripture.
The Lord's ways are far above our ways.... but do you think that God speaks to us through reason and science?

 

[GTW27]

I agree, my brother.

The Lord's ways are far above our ways, and yet God speaks to us through Scripture.
The Lord's ways are far above our ways.... but do you think that God speaks to us through reason and science?

I know in my own life when I had a problem to be solved The Lord spoke on the matter that made absolutely no sense to me. It was above reason. And when I listened and obeyed it worked out perfectly. One day I asked The Lord, How did you walk on the water? And He said, "I believed, and so I walked." I think this is above science and the former above reason.