T U L I P explained

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

There was no completed bible back in their day was there? I'm thinking only a fraction of what Moses had passed down to him was recorded.

Well, if you dont believe that what was written by Moses was inspired and was passed down... possibly.

But I dont believe Moses wrote Gen 1 and 2 (re-creation) .. and maybe not all of Genesis. Granted, Ttradition credits Moses as the author, but modern scholars attribute it to multiple authors between the 10th and 5th centuries.

While Got Questions seemingly concur it was Moses... One sentence of theirs puts doubt in my minf for sure.

"Genesis 5:1 implies the existence of written documents Moses might have relied on, especially the genealogies, originating from older patriarchs like Abraham and Joseph, who lived in the same Egypt Moses grew in."

Gen 5:1
NASB 1995
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

Peshitta
1This is the scroll of the generations of Adam in the day that God created Adam; He created him in the form of God;

Don't you think Abraham's God revealed himself directly.

Yes

And Job, didn't he and his God interact without a medium.

Yes

I'm thinking there was no book required.

And I am thinking what happens to all word of mouth passed generation to generation.

Starting with Gen 1 and 2 ... Two creation accounts and only one can we be sure of because the lineages provided through the bible confirm.

 

[One 2 question]

With out the written inspired word of God I would find it extremely difficult to believe that
the "truth" which we all seeks would be imparted to us as "a word of knowledge"

When God communicates with us directly, why do we need to have specific names or terms for the means He uses like word of knowledge, prophetic word, divine revelation, inspired word and I'm pretty sure there are many others people use.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

When God communicates with us directly, why do we need to have specific names or terms for the means He uses like word of knowledge, prophetic word, divine revelation, inspired word and I'm pretty sure there are many others people use.

When Pat Robertson was talking to a crowd of people and God gave him word of a healing for some he always said he received a word of knowledge.. unless you feel that God is talking to you in secret.

 

[PinSeeker]

...tradition credits Moses as the author...

Actually, Jesus Himself credits Moses with the writings found in Genesis through Deuteronomy (Matthew 8:4; Mark 1:44, 7:10, 10:3-5, 12:26; Luke 5:14, 16:29-31, 20:37, 24:27, 24:44; John 3:14, 5:46, 6:32, 7:19-23). And so do Luke (Acts) and Peter and Paul (in Acts and their epistles...).

...all word of mouth passed generation to generation.

Not all word of mouth is inspired (God-breathed) by the Holy Spirit.

Starting with Gen 1 and 2 ... Two creation accounts and only one can we be sure of because the lineages provided through the bible confirm.

There are not "two creation accounts"... In Genesis 2 we see a "zooming in" on the whole of God's act of creation to the sixth day, the creation of man.

Grace and peace to you, Rella.

 

[PinSeeker]

When God communicates with us directly...

Well, He doesn't. As the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2). However, today, we have the written Word, of course, and we have the Holy Spirit, Who is at work in us today, maintaining the integrity of God's Word and, as Jesus said the Holy Spirit would do, is "teach(ing) (us) all things and bring(ing) to (our) remembrance all that (Jesus) said to (us)" (John 14:26)

However, reading the Bible is essential in the Christian life, as just reading it ~ through which the Holy Spirit works in us ~ is formative, a means by which God "conforms us more and more to the image of His Son" Jesus, (Romans 8:29), "for adoption to God as sons through Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:5). This is what we are predestined by God to/for.

Grace and peace to you, One 2 question (interesting moniker...)

 

[One 2 question]

However, reading the Bible is essential in the Christian life

Unfortunately my life experience with my Creators confirms that reading the bible definatly isn't essential. My love for Them and my understanding of Them has grown so much more since moving forward beyond what's written in the bible.

I know my experience is different to yours and that's great. I know They will make all things good at some stage in eternity and we will all live happy ever after. Hollywood has made many attempts to portray their happy ever after but all fail as their plot involves imperfect corrupt humans.

We all need the perfect Redeemer and Restorer to finish His work then we can ALL experience the happy ever after which has no end. Now that's something that produces joy, hope, peace and increasing love for this Redeemer and His Father.

 

[PinSeeker]

Unfortunately my life experience with my Creators confirms that reading the bible definatly isn't essential.

Hmm, your "creators"... maybe that's a typo...? At any rate, your statement here then sort of begs the question, "Why, then, did God give us His Word?" And, Jesus is the Word, and we are to walk with Him...

My love for Them and my understanding of Them has grown so much more since moving forward beyond what's written in the bible.

Hmm (again), this too is an... alarming... statement. You do know, I hope, that we are not to add anything to what we've been given (Revelation 22:18). And, if you think you've been given any special revelation (as opposed to other Christians), that too is... concerning. But, okay.

I know my experience is different to yours and that's great. I know They will make all things good at some stage in eternity and we will all live happy ever after. Hollywood has made many attempts to portray their happy ever after but all fail as their plot involves imperfect corrupt humans.

We all need the perfect Redeemer and Restorer to finish His work then we can ALL experience the happy ever after which has no end. Now that's something that produces joy, hope, peace and increasing love for this Redeemer and His Father.

"They"...

Well, good enough. Thanks be to God, we have the Spirit, and He is at work in us and around us and through us. And through Him, Christ, Who is our peace, is with us.

Grace and peace to you, One 2 question.

 

[One 2 question]

Hmm, your "creators"... maybe that's a typo...

You might be familiar with someone's recent quote, Let Us make man in Our own image.

Why, then, did God give us His Word?" And, Jesus is the Word, and we are to walk with Him

I have the great privilege of walking and listening to Him every day. His words of life flow from Him into me transforming me into His likeness as we spend quality time together. Yes, Jesus sure is sent from His Father and is His Word to us and for us. That's why I don't need what Father said through the Word to crowd's of individuals 2000 years ago when He is here communicating with me now.

And I acknowledge not everyone has a personal intimate moment by moment active relationship with Him, the Word of God.

But I sure hope more and more people get to experience Him. He is brilliant and amazing, don't you think?

Hmm (again), this too is an... alarming... statement. You do know, I hope, that we are not to add anything to what we've been given (Revelation 22:18). And, if you think you've been given any special revelation (as opposed to other Christians), that too is... concerning. But, okay.

You can relax my friend. No need for concern for me. Just praise our Creators for Their love and provision and protection of those who are Theirs.

I have no interest in quoting and adding to what was given to him 2000 years ago.

Father gives different unique truths to me and builds on (adds to) them. I hope He has been doing this for you too. These revelations are really lifechanging.

Thanks be to God, we have the Spirit, and He is at work in us and around us and through us. And through Him, Christ, Who is our peace, is with us

Yes! Agreed! And I join you in thanking Them.

 

[PinSeeker]

His words of life flow from Him into me transforming me into His likeness as we spend quality time together. Yes, Jesus sure is sent from His Father and is His Word to us and for us. That's why I don't need what Father said through the Word to crowd's of individuals 2000 years ago when He is here communicating with me now.

Ah, you're a Superchristian. I see. :)

And I acknowledge not everyone has a personal intimate moment by moment active relationship with Him, the Word of God.

And that you're much more... worthy... than they? :)

He is brilliant and amazing, don't you think?

Yes. :)

I have no interest in quoting and adding to what was given to him 2000 years ago.

Or actually reading it, apparently, because it passed from relevancy way back then?

Father gives different unique truths to me and builds on (adds to) them... These revelations are really lifechanging.

Hmmmm...

Yes! Agreed! And I join you in thanking Them.

:)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[One 2 question]

Ah, you're a Superchristian. I see. :)

The only thing super in me is that I am super thankful that my Creators a made a plan to salvage me before I was condemned. That They redeemed me when I was only fit to be condemned. For this I am super thankful that once I was blind and could not see my Rescuers but now I see Them. I was lost but now I am found by Them who loves me and the world.

And that you're much more... worthy... than they? :)

Again I was only worthy of judgment because I didn't believe in Christ's substitutionary death on my behalf and that His blood was payment for my sin, my sin that would cause me to be condemned. I was not worthy to receive the mercy and grace of my Creators but They did what only They could do and opened my eyes to see Them. They became irresistible and I embraced Them and everything They had to offer that poor wretched sinner.

But thanks be to Them for They took me off the broad road that leads to death and destruction then placed me on the narrow road that leads to Them, for in Them is life everlasting.

Or actually reading it, apparently, because it passed from relevancy way back then?

I elect to not drive by what I see in the review mirror. I, like Paul, forget what is behind and press on to what is ahead in Christ. I simply fix my sights on Jesus and keep running the race that is set out in front of me not what's behind me.

Don't get me wrong. I glance in the review mirror from time to time and reflect on the past but that is becoming less the case. Be it my past, events in history and people in the past, namely my precious Redeemer and best Friend Jesus.

But all these things of the past will never consume me or prevent me from living and engaging with my Redeemer and best Friend in the present and into the future. I love Him too much to neglect Him Who is with me and in me right now.

Again, I love Him so so much! And what is even more amazing and precious is the knowing that He loves me even more.

Grace and peace to you.

And to you my friend.

 

[PinSeeker]

The only thing super in me is that I am super thankful that my Creators a made a plan to salvage me before I was condemned. That They redeemed me when I was only fit to be condemned. For this I am super thankful that once I was blind and could not see my Rescuers but now I see Them. I was lost but now I am found by Them who loves me and the world.

Again I was only worthy of judgment because I didn't believe in Christ's substitutionary death on my behalf and that His blood was payment for my sin, my sin that would cause me to be condemned. I was not worthy to receive the mercy and grace of my Creators but They did what only They could do and opened my eyes to see Them. They became irresistible and I embraced Them and everything They had to offer that poor wretched sinner.

But thanks be to Them for They took me off the broad road that leads to death and destruction then placed me on the narrow road that leads to Them, for in Them is life everlasting.

Okay, well good, I was really just kind of poking at you. :) I mean, all this is well and good, but come on, man, going on about it in such manner is... a bit much. :)

I elect to not drive by what I see in the review mirror. I, like Paul, forget what is behind and press on to what is ahead in Christ. I simply fix my sights on Jesus and keep running the race that is set out in front of me not what's behind me.

Okay, well fine, but meditating on God's Word ~ um, our Creators... :) ~ is one of the ways we commune with Him ~ um, them... :).
.

Don't get me wrong. I glance in the review mirror from time to time and reflect on the past but that is becoming less the case. Be it my past, events in history and people in the past, namely my precious Redeemer and best Friend Jesus.

But all these things of the past will never consume me or prevent me from living and engaging with my Redeemer and best Friend in the present and into the future. I love Him too much to neglect Him Who is with me and in me right now.

Again, I love Him so so much! And what is even more amazing and precious is the knowing that He loves me even more.

Great!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Well, He doesn't. As the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by his Son..." (Hebrews 1:1-2). However, today, we have the written Word, of course, and we have the Holy Spirit, Who is at work in us today, maintaining the integrity of God's Word and, as Jesus said the Holy Spirit would do, is "teach(ing) (us) all things and bring(ing) to (our) remembrance all that (Jesus) said to (us)" (John 14:26)

However, reading the Bible is essential in the Christian life, as just reading it ~ through which the Holy Spirit works in us ~ is formative, a means by which God "conforms us more and more to the image of His Son" Jesus, (Romans 8:29), "for adoption to God as sons through Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:5). This is what we are predestined by God to/for.

Grace and peace to you, One 2 question (interesting moniker...)

You mentioned zooming in for the Genesis account of the story.

God does communicate with us directly; can't absolutely say no to that as it never happens.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the [d]Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

 

[PinSeeker]

You mentioned zooming in for the Genesis account of the story.

I... don't really know what you mean by that, Scott. What I said was that what we read in Genesis 2 about God's creation of man is not a "second creation account" in the sense that God executed two different creation acts... that Genesis 2, specifically verses 4 through 22 ~ is a "zoomed in" account of the sixth day of Creation related specifically in Genesis 1:26-27. In the latter, we see that "God created man in his own image... male and female he created them." But in the former, we see much more specifically that "God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature..." and "...God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man He made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, 'This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." The Genesis 1 account is general in nature, but the Genesis 2 account is much more specific, but they are the same account, with which I think you agree.

God does communicate with us directly; can't absolutely say no to that as it never happens.

It kind of depends on the context in which you say that, Scott. :)

Yes, the Holy Spirit certainly does speak to us ~ inwardly; we Christians have the Holy Spirit; He is at work in us; He "brings to our remembrance all that Jesus has said" (John 14:26), just as Jesus said He would. This is His ~ ongoing, in this life ~ work of sanctification in us.

But no, God doesn't speak to us in the sense of any new revelation, in the sense of saying something to us that has never been said to anyone before. In that sense, "God..." ~ in the words of Hebrews 1:1-2 ~ "...spoke..." (past tense) "...to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken..." (also past tense) "...to us by his Son." In this sense, He has said all that needs to be said, which brings to mind one of my favorite hymns of all time, How Firm a Foundation, "What more can He say than to you He hath said, to you who for refuge to Jesus have fled?"

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit Who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Exactly! Well of course "exactly," as this is God's Word. But... see directly above... this is exactly as I said. And you see here too that the Spirit causes us to know "things that have been freely given..." ~ yet again, past tense ~ "...to us by God."

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[Scott Downey]

I... don't really know what you mean by that, Scott. What I said was that what we read in Genesis 2 about God's creation of man is not a "second creation account" in the sense that God executed two different creation acts... that Genesis 2, specifically verses 4 through 22 ~ is a "zoomed in" account of the sixth day of Creation related specifically in Genesis 1:26-27. In the latter, we see that "God created man in his own image... male and female he created them." But in the former, we see much more specifically that "God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature..." and "...God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man He made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, 'This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." The Genesis 1 account is general in nature, but the Genesis 2 account is much more specific, but they are the same account, with which I think you agree.


It kind of depends on the context in which you say that, Scott. :)

Yes, the Holy Spirit certainly does speak to us ~ inwardly; we Christians have the Holy Spirit; He is at work in us; He "brings to our remembrance all that Jesus has said" (John 14:26), just as Jesus said He would. This is His ~ ongoing, in this life ~ work of sanctification in us.

But no, God doesn't speak to us in the sense of any new revelation, in the sense of saying something to us that has never been said to anyone before. In that sense, "God..." ~ in the words of Hebrews 1:1-2 ~ "...spoke..." (past tense) "...to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken..." (also past tense) "...to us by his Son." In this sense, He has said all that needs to be said, which brings to mind one of my favorite hymns of all time, How Firm a Foundation, "What more can He say than to you He hath said, to you who for refuge to Jesus have fled?"


Exactly! Well of course "exactly," as this is God's Word. But... see directly above... this is exactly as I said. And you see here too that the Spirit causes us to know "things that have been freely given..." ~ yet again, past tense ~ "...to us by God."

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

I agree with you that there is no second creation story, it is the same story, just zooming in with more details.

God here is all about relationships and growing the family of God.
Here is another speaking verse for you to consider.


“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

John 18:37
Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

 

[Scott Downey]

That word voice, what it means, uttered words, of a language, tongue.
The real you, as your spiritual self, is in communion with God and Christ.
You may or may not hear an audible voice, others likely won't hear the things God is speaking to your spirit, like Paul on the Damascus road, which was quite remarkable.

"Everyone who is of the truth hears His voice."
I have heard the voice of God, but this is not really meant to be shared as prophecy for I am not a prophet.
And you will hear and believe what God has said. In truth it is why you believed in Christ, for faith comes by hearing God speak.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the word of God, to you, personally.
We are not dead; we are alive in the Spirit.

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


Many things God will speak to you whether your mind hears them or not, you do hear this in the Spirit.
And this verse says the same thing about your life with Him.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

You will find this out fully when you go to be with Him forever, in your eternal home in the eternal state.
God will show it to you.

G5456 - phōnē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G5456 - φωνή phōnḗ, fo-nay'; probably akin to through the idea of disclosure; a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by implication, an address (for any purpose), saying or language:—noise, sound, voice.

www.blueletterbible.org

KJV Translation Count — Total: 141x
The KJV translates Strong's G5456 in the following manner: voice (131x), sound (8x), be noised abroad (with G1096) (1x), noise (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a sound, a tone
   1. of inanimate things, as musical instruments
2. a voice
   1. of the sound of uttered words
3. speech
   1. of a language, tongue

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
φωνή phōnḗ, fo-nay'; probably akin to G5316 through the idea of disclosure; a tone (articulate, bestial or artificial); by implication, an address (for any purpose), saying or language:—noise, sound, voice.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?](Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS G5456:

 

[PinSeeker]

I agree with you that there is no second creation story, it is the same story, just zooming in with more details.

Good.

Here is another speaking verse for you to consider.


“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

John 18:37
Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

That word voice, what it means, uttered words, of a language, tongue.
The real you, as your spiritual self, is in communion with God and Christ.
You may or may not hear an audible voice, others likely won't hear the things God is speaking to your spirit, like Paul on the Damascus road, which was quite remarkable.

"Everyone who is of the truth hears His voice."
I have heard the voice of God, but this is not really meant to be shared as prophecy for I am not a prophet.
And you will hear and believe what God has said. In truth it is why you believed in Christ, for faith comes by hearing God speak.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the word of God, to you, personally.
We are not dead; we are alive in the Spirit.

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


Many things God will speak to you whether your mind hears them or not, you do hear this in the Spirit.
And this verse says the same thing about your life with Him.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Interesting post... I'm all about spiritual things, Scott ~ the work of the Spirit and our new, spiritual life in Christ ~ but I would shy away from over-spiritualizing things. To all this I would just point out what James says, that we Christians should be doers of the Word and not hearers only (James 1:22). <smile>

You will find this out fully when you go to be with Him forever, in your eternal home in the eternal state. God will show it to you.

Ah, but you already know, right? <chuckle>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[One 2 question]

I = Irresistible grace. This is another hotly debated one. This is the argument between predestination and free will. This does not mean that God makes believers do everything they do every day.

Does this mean God will make believers believe?

This has to do with the Elect being predestined to be saved before God created the world and they will be drawn to jesus.

Are you saying that God will draw people to believe in Jesus by making His grace so attractive that they can't but accept it, making it irresistible?

 

[One 2 question]

The elect will be drawn to God!

How can you be so confident that every single person God elects will be drawn to God (God's grace)?

 

[One 2 question]

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

So Jesus wasn't interested in choosing everyone? Nor was He interested in ordaining everyone? Jesus didn't want everyone to go forth and bear fruit? And Jesus didn't want everyone to ask of the Father in His name, that he may give it them?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Does this mean God will make believers believe?


Are you saying that God will draw people to believe in Jesus by making His grace so attractive that they can't but accept it, making it irresistible?

Yes ! Saving faith is a gift that comes from God.

In a manner yes. We cannot come to Jesus unless we are drawn to Him by god the Father. That is clearly stated in John 6. And as Jesus also said, all who come to Him, He will not cast out. so god draws us.

How can you be so confident that every single person God elects will be drawn to God (God's grace)?

Because it is God who chooses who will or won't Gods will is sovereign! Man cannot counter what God commands.

So Jesus wasn't interested in choosing everyone? Nor was He interested in ordaining everyone? Jesus didn't want everyone to go forth and bear fruit? And Jesus didn't want everyone to ask of the Father in His name, that he may give it them?

Correct. Let me give you one passage that shows that God did not and does not choose everyone.

Eph. 2:

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Gentiles in OT times unless they became proselytes to Judaism, were without hope and without God in the world.

Today there are more than 3.5 billion people minimum who have never heard the gospel once. these are lost people for apart from teh gospel- no one can be saved.