Is anyone else a Seer?

[Behold]

Excellent - and you appreciate that one Scripture cannot void another - and that Paul penned 1 Cor 14 after the verse you quote.

It is not a matter of 'either or' it is a matter of 'both and'.

Its a matter of "rightly dividing" the word of God, by spiritual discernment, that is based on "study" and "comparing scripture with scripture".

 

[Hillsage]

MAT 11:13* "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14* "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.

MAT 11:9 'But what went ye out to see? - a prophet? yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet,

Jesus considered John the Baptist as a prophet which should end this discussion which is going no where for either 'the side of MOST' or 'the side of a FEW', IMO. I don't even remember why it matters here if he was or if he wasn't. The OT NT says there's prophets.

 

[Behold]

Is a Prophet one that brings the Voice of God by the Spirit to believers?

A Prophet is one chosen or "called" by God/Christ to be that Ministry, not just someone whom God chooses to deliver one vision, one time.

So, if you try to prove that a Prophet is "one who gives a inspired message from God" then you have just described a Pastor, a Teacher, an Evangelist , or even a Deacon.

John was an apostle who received an astounding "end times"... vision that is an amazing prophecy.
He did that one time, as "'The Revelation"

 

[Hillsage]

A Prophet is one chosen or "called" by God/Christ to be that Ministry, not just someone whom God chooses to deliver one vision, one time.

Do you have a verse saying 'chosen or called'? If you do please share it. I don't remember one.
Or, making it easier, where is there a verse stating that being 'any' of the five-fold ministry positions is 'chosen or called' ministry?

I ask that because I don't consider any of the five-fold gifts as being 'the ministry'. It is 'the people' who are 'the gift' to the body of Christ. And they are gifted as to how they think differently and relate to things differently because of how God knit them together in the womb. Looking at a problem from 5 different viewpoints of thinking perspectives allows them to have a better input as to church government. Especially compared to the church today which makes the pastor a king

So, if you try to prove that a Prophet is "one who gives a inspired message from God" then you have just described a Pastor, a Teacher, an Evangelist , or even a Deacon.

I would agree.

John was an apostle who received an astounding "end times"... vision that is an amazing prophecy.

I agree John was AN APOSTLE. And I believe those five ministers differ, based upon 'how their brains were wired to 'look at things differently' and 'to think about things differently. This gives a better overall counsel, to the diversified body of Christ.

Because I believe the above I don't believe you can have more than one hardwired way to think. My only caveat in my belief applies to Jesus who is the only one to ever have "the spirit without measure". And if the body of Christ is capable of that, then we are going to. have to attain to the 'end' purpose of the five-fold ministry.


EPH 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ:

If the body ever did achieve this level of "unity" "knowledge" "perfection"....I BELIEVE it would have been when/while the original apostles were still alive.

 

[Carl Emerson]

A Prophet is one chosen or "called" by God/Christ to be that Ministry, not just someone whom God chooses to deliver one vision, one time.

So, if you try to prove that a Prophet is "one who gives a inspired message from God" then you have just described a Pastor, a Teacher, an Evangelist , or even a Deacon.

John was an apostle who received an astounding "end times"... vision that is an amazing prophecy.
He did that one time, as "'The Revelation"

You missed the question mark at the end - I was not presenting a proof.

I was inviting Peterlag to define what a NT prophet is.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Its a matter of "rightly dividing" the word of God, by spiritual discernment, that is based on "study" and "comparing scripture with scripture".

Yes - spiritual discernment is critical and the absence of that one factor gives rise to the miriad of opinions on CF.

So folks generally follow what they are taught and the opinions remain.

 

[Behold]

Do you have a verse saying 'chosen or called'? If you do please share it. I don't remember one.

Sure.

The Apostle Paul, who wrote most of the NT Epistles, was a "Chosen Vessel" Jesus said.

Also....

Eph 4:11-12

"For the perfecting of the Saints).. "God GIVES" some "ministries"..

The "giving" is the Call upon their life, into one these ministries..

= "Pastor, Evangelist, Prophet, Teacher, Apostle".

WE, .. .dont choose to become one of Those........as they are a "call of God".. on the person.. Its a Ministry anointing, for that ministry.

God calls someone, and that is the anointing..... and then God enables them over time, to perform that ministry.

I ask that because I don't consider any of the five-fold gifts as being 'the ministry'.

They are not "the"< they are : "A" ministry.

God chooses some, from the Body of Christ..

I agree John was AN APOSTLE. And I believe those five ministers differ,

The 12 Apostles are an interesting situation, as none of them were born again when they were called to be an "Apostle".

So...Now, when a person is called to be "pastor, prophet, evangelist, teacher, apostle", they are always of the Body of Christ., before they are called into a ministry.

. my belief applies to Jesus who is the only one to ever have "the spirit without measure".

The reason that Jesus has "the spirit without measure" is because ...

"God is A Spirit" and "Christ is THAT Spirit".

Notice that """God has raised up Jesus from the Dead"""""... and then notice that Jesus said, """"i have the power to lay down my life and i have the power to TAKE IT UP AGAIN"""".

See that?

"Christ is THAT Spirit"..... and we are the "Temple of the HOLY Spirit"... and this is. : """Christ in YOU< the Hope of Glory".""

A.) Its all the SAME "ONE".

If the body ever did achieve this level of "unity" "knowledge" "perfection"....I BELIEVE it would have been when/while the original apostles were still alive.

Paul says that when we come into the "same mind" , and that is regarding the full understanding of the knowledge of God, regarding seeing ourselves as a "new Creation in Christ", exactly as God's sees us.. then Paul says this is the believer become.. "as many as be PERFECT".

See, CHRISTianity, is all SPIRITUAL, and this means that learning certain revelation, puts us into "the mind of Christ".

Another way to see that verse is..."How does God think about it"....

A Christians actual TRUE Discipleship, is revelation knowledge that is being gained, .. Its not about trying to do good stuff, and be some self idealized imitation of Jesus.

Real Discipleship, starts with the understanding of Hebrews 13:9... as this verse says we are to establish something, and until that happens, the believer has not begun their actual first steps regarding walking in the Spirit.

In this case....USE the KJV, if you want to read the verse.... Reader.

Also....The first class i teach on the first day......, i start with these verses listed below, and i have them learn them and learn them and learn them..., until the students understands them so perfectly , that they are inside the verses, with their faith.
We look at them from many many angles, regarding "comparing scripture with scripture".

These verse, are : Class = day 1.

Hebrews 13:9

Romans 3:21-28

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Romans 4:8

Colossians 2:11

Titus 3:5

 

[Carl Emerson]

We seem to be hearing that one who brings a prophesy is not necessarily a prophet.

Even worse - one who is called a prophet is not a prophet.

 

[Behold]

So folks generally follow what they are taught and the opinions remain.

WE are all "taught"... we are all the product, the end result of what we are learning... or have learned.

A Morman didnt wake up one morning and "hey everybody look..... im a MORMON"...

A Catholic didnt wake up one day and.... "suddenly im a CATHOLIC who needs to light a candle for the Virgin..."

No, what happens,..... is someone or a church.. or a commentary set, has become someone's "theology". = Belief system.
Often its a weird blend of a few teachers, and some commentaries, and books.

People also become denomination-alized.. .and that is why if you say to them...

"Hello, are you are CHRISTIAN"..?????

They Respond........

Yes, im a "Calvinist'
Yes, im a "Catholic"
Baptist
Presbyterian
Methodist
Mormon
JW

And the issue is... God isn't any of that.. .as there are no denomination is Heaven.

GOD isn't a Catholic, and Jesus isn't a Baptist., and Neither of them is a Calvinist.

See, Christians are GOD Made

Denominations are MAN- made.

So, the way you solve that (escape it).... is you become a DEVOUT LIFE LONG = Student of Paul's Theology,

Paul teaches.. "be a follower of me, as i follow Christ'.. and you do that by studying Paul's Doctrine and allow it to become your Theological Foundation, and you study Paul's life, and allow His walk of Faith to become the #1 influence of yours.

We are to learn Paul's Doctrine,.... to the core of our spiritual Being, and then from this revelation, we are protected from what "sounds true" and is really just one more cult and one more minister of the devil who misuses a bible into twisted versed, to deceive Believers.

 

[Peterlag]

The coming of Christ. Preparing for this even was the singular event of his ministry.

And when I say the coming of Christ, I don't mean the generic way all ministers talk about. Rather, he was saying the arrival of the king was imminent.

According to no less an authority than Christ himself, JB was the greatest prophet. Yet, you are challenging whether he qualifies as a prophet at all based on your made up criteria.

Where did I ever challenge John's qualifies as a prophet? Where? God told him Jesus was the Christ. That's all he needed to know to know Jesus was the Christ.

 

[Behold]

We seem to be hearing that one who brings a prophesy is not necessarily a prophet.

There is a Prophet ministry, and that is not an Apostle. (Body of Christ).

So, if an Apostle, receives a revelation, that becomes "The Revelation", then that is an Apostle, who received a revelation.
That didnt change His ministry..>>He's still an Apostle.

Even worse - one who is called a prophet is not a prophet.

If a person is called by God to become a : "prophet, evangelist, teacher, pastor, apostle" then that is their "call". (Body of Christ).

= "For the perfecting of the Saints'"""

Jesus was all of these.. but Peter was not., for example.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So, if an Apostle, receives a revelation, that becomes "The Revelation", then that is an Apostle, who received a revelation.
That didnt change His ministry..>>He's still an Apostle.

In the case of John's Revelation, Scripture records it as a prophesy.

 

[Behold]

In the case of John's Revelation, Scripture records it as a prophesy.

But scripture does not record John as a Prophet.

It only records John the Apostle as receiving this amazing "Revelation".

Notice that Peter received a vision from God, in Acts 10, and He didnt become a Prophet..
He was just an Apostle who received a divine message from God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So a NT prophet called by God and recognised as such by the Church, although the fellowship of the prophets seems to be at times seperate from the local church and itinerant. Yet Paul gives instruction to folks bringing a prophetic word in the local fellowship in which the spirit of the prophets should be subject to the prophets who seem to be a defined group.
We should then, distinguish between the Office of Prophet and one simply having the gift of prophesy which Paul encourages all believers to have.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But scripture does not record John as a Prophet.

It only records John the Apostle as receiving this amazing "Revelation".

Notice that Peter received a vision from God, in Acts 10, and He didnt become a Prophet..
He was just an Apostle who received a divine message from God.

Scripture records John's revelation as a prophesy.

 

[Wrangler]

Where did I ever challenge John's qualifies as a prophet?

You are really playing games in this thread. I directly responded to this post.

Name one thing John the baptize foretold.

Prophets foretell things. That’s what prophets do.

 

[Peterlag]

You are really playing games in this thread. I directly responded to this post.

Prophets foretell things. That’s what prophets do.

I don't play games. My position is always the same. Nobody sees into the future. Prophets only know what they are told.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't play games. My position is always the same. Nobody sees into the future. Prophets only know what they are told.

Your assertion fails experience. I saw the future - at least one possible future, if repentance does not occur.

You are playing games with people who have experience and KNOW what you claim is simply not true.

Where do you get the idea that prophets don’t see into the future?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Samuel and Saul...

Samual could see what would happen, and shared considerable detail of future events with Saul.

1 Sam 10

10 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the Lord hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?

2 When thou art departed from me to day, then thou shalt find two men by Rachel's sepulchre in the border of Benjamin at Zelzah; and they will say unto thee, The asses which thou wentest to seek are found: and, lo, thy father hath left the care of the asses, and sorroweth for you, saying, What shall I do for my son?

3 Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine:

4 And they will salute thee, and give thee two loaves of bread; which thou shalt receive of their hands.

5 After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.

 

[Peterlag]

Your assertion fails experience. I saw the future - at least one possible future, if repentance does not occur.

You are playing games with people who have experience and KNOW what you claim is simply not true.

Where do you get the idea that prophets don’t see into the future?

Again, I don't know what these games are that you keep mentioning. I got the idea about the future from these guys...

The God Who Risks: A Theology of Divine Providence ​

by John Sanders

God At War: The Bible And Spiritual Conflict​

by Gregory A Boyd