GNOSTIC GUESSING GAME

[PS95]

Doctrine of Gnostic - Cerinthus, his heresy thrived in the 2nd half of the first century when the Apostle John was alive.
(50-100 CE)--- Cerinthus was educated in the wisdom (gnosis) of the Egyptians in Alexandria, but was said to be Jewish.
He had his own gospel which was a shortened corrupted version of Mathew's gospel.
Many followed Cerinthus- and several of his followers formed other gnostic sects. (Ebionites and Nicolaitanes etc).
According to the earliest Christian church sources, John the Apostle wrote specifically refuting the false teachings of Cerinthus.
Gnostics generally thought of flesh and material creation as evil, therefore the idea of an incarnation was repulsive. I'm soley focusing on how they viewed Jesus and how John responded to them, with a brief summary of atonement at the end.
WHO TEACHES SIMILARLY TODAY?- DO YOU KNOW?

Gnostic sect of Cerinthus believed & taught---
1) Jesus was born of flesh- a man just like us, except more righteous & wise (Mary & Joseph- bio parents) (more righteous and wiser)
2) He was not "Christ".
3) They believed that the Christ (a type of high angel spirit) came upon Jesus after baptism in dove form.
4) This Christ spirit departed from Jesus at Calvary
5)The man, Jesus- suffered and died
6) Christ (angel spirit) returned to heaven.
7) Jesus the man rose (no details)

Cerinthus the Gnostic separated Jesus from Christ (flesh man vs spirit being)
*Note- John's insistence on using JESUS + CHRIST


THAT is why John warned us that----********************

"Every spirit that confesses Jesus CHRIST has COME in the flesh is of God."-- 1 John 4:2
and it's why he repeated it, 2 john:7

He also denied that ----Jesus IS the CHRIST --1 John 2:22

and denied that the WORD BECAME FLESH. -- John 1:14

and Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus CHRIST as COMING in the flesh.--2 John:7

*Note- John's insistence on using JESUS + CHRIST and, JESUS IS the CHRIST and, the Word BECAME flesh

John 1:1 ,3, 14,
In the beginning was the Word
The word was with god
The word was god
ALL THINGS CREATED....
THE WORD BECAME FLESH
------------------------------------------------------------------

You see the problem John had with them?

Sound familiar? - Who teaches similarly today?
See below-

1- Jesus born a "perfect" but mere man- born of Mary + archangel " Michaels' impersonal life-force in her ovum"
2 Jesus was not Christ the Lord at birth.
3- Michael the arch- angel's life force came upon the man, Jesus, at baptism
4- Jesus died- His body did not rise . He is dead forever- Jesus was dissolved into gases.
5- The angel's impersonal life force returned to heaven.

and..... this-
Gnostic Salvation-
Works based salvation- sabbath & circumcism.. + Gnosis (Accurate knowlege) Jesus' blood does not cover our sins. Jesus the man was an example of obedience. They had their own bible version & different gospel, different Jesus.
Gnostic also did not partake of Communion elementsas Jws dont.
Gnostics did not like the cross.

Any takers? Which "christian" religion today, teaches the above similarly to John's Gnostics?
HINT- since late 1800's




-(Irenaeus on Cerinthus ) Iraneus Against Heresies 1, XXVI & III, XI ( A.D 120-200)
-Hippolytus of Rome The Refutation of all Heresies book VII
-Encyclopedia Brittanica

 

[hies]

Jehovah's Witnesses of course. I didn't realize JWs were essentially teaching the gnostic gospel. So the devil didn't do anything new, just repeated some old tricks.

Also the gnostic gospels says the flesh is inherently evil, which isn't true. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve as sinless, and the physical realm wasn't sinful or evil at all. Then sin entered the world through Adam. But inherently there's nothing evil about the flesh or the physical realm.

 

[PS95]

Quotes-- from the modern day gnostic religion--

"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity of life. His life-force was not to be extinguished but would be transferred to the ovum of the virgin girl, Mary." WT 2-15-82 p. 7

"The spirit is our life-force." You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, 1982, p.79

"God provided the perfect man whose life could ransom the human race, by transferring the life force of his chief angelic Son in the heavens to the womb of a virgin." WT 3-1-60 p.133

"the transferal of the life of his firstborn Son from the spirit realm to earth. Only in this way could the child eventually born have retained identity as the same person who had resided in heaven as the Word." Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, p.920

"...thus the spirit could not have personality but must be an impersonal force...electric current never takes on the characteristics of the machines or appliances in which it functions." AWAKE! 8-8-72, p.27

"...life itself is impersonal, incorporeal, being merely the life principle." Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, p.1061

"The spirit has no thought, feeling, or intelligence." AWAKE! 7-8-49 p.26

"The spirit is much like electricity, which activates many things but does not take on their qualities." Is This Life All There Is?, 1974, p.51

"...that the heavenly Word of God divested himself of everything as a God-like spirit except his life force." The Kingdom is at Hand, 1944, p.49

"...this did not mean that one of the heavenly spirit sons of God was sent to crawl into Mary's body...Such a thing is unreasonable and an absurdity." God's Eternal Purpose Now Triumphing, 1974, p.137

"...in this transfer of his life to the virgin's womb, Jehovah's God-like Son divested himself of everything spirit and heavenly and became a man." WT 8-1-42 p.231


"...in this transfer of his life to the virgin's womb, Jehovah's God-like Son divested himself of everything spirit and heavenly and became a man." WT 8-1-42 p.231

after Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gasses and it disappeared forever. (WT 09/01/53 p. 518; Time...Hand p. 129).

"...the man Jesus is dead, forever dead,..." Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 5, 1899, p. 454

"The flesh of a sacrifice is always disposed of and put out of existence, so not corrupting...Accordingly, Jesus Christ was raised from the dead as a spirit person and not in the fleshly body in which he died as a human sacrifice." ("Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie," Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 1965, pp. 354-356).

Not a bit of that is biblical nor does it make a bit of sense.

ONLY Michael's life force was transferred.

2. A life force is impersonal.

3. Michael's life force did NOT take his personality with it.

4. Michael's personality ceased to exist when his soul and life force were separated.

5. If that life force did not contain the personality of God's Son, according to Society's own doctrine Jesus could NOT be Michael.

 

[PS95]

Jehovah's Witnesses of course. I didn't realize JWs were essentially teaching the gnostic gospel. So the devil didn't do anything new, just repeated some old tricks.

Also the gnostic gospels says the flesh is inherently evil, which isn't true. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve as sinless, and the physical realm wasn't sinful or evil at all. Then sin entered the world through Adam. But inherently there's nothing evil about the flesh or the physical realm.

Sad, but true.
its why John felt the need to write 1 John 1:1
"That which was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—"

Jws dont teach flesh is evil. They just teach Gnostic style anyway tho.

 

[PS95]

will add more quotes another day. need a break :)

 

[PS95]

Jehovah's Witnesses of course. I didn't realize JWs were essentially teaching the gnostic gospel. So the devil didn't do anything new, just repeated some old tricks.

Also the gnostic gospels says the flesh is inherently evil, which isn't true. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve as sinless, and the physical realm wasn't sinful or evil at all. Then sin entered the world through Adam. But inherently there's nothing evil about the flesh or the physical realm.

Please educate others. People don't know what they teach!!
It's my hope that the JWs here will stop saying that Christians are antichrists
& believe (hope, trust, rely on) the Apostle John's Jesus forgiveness of their sins.
JWs--You will be able to walk in the spirit! The flesh will make you fall.
You can be born again
You can be a child of god
you can be a part of the body of Christ
you can cry out, ABBA, Father!
etc etc..

Dont belong to Jesus Christ.

When a JW (Jehovahs witness) comes to your door many are left confused and frustrated unable to pinpoint what the problem was exactly. Here is a list of some things Jws happily lack (and believe that you can not possibly have either). They will try to convert you to their other hope, the...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[hies]

Please educate others. People don't know what they teach!!
It's my hope that the JWs here will stop saying that Christians are antichrists
& believe (hope, trust, rely on) the Apostle John's Jesus forgiveness of their sins.
JWs--You will be able to walk in the spirit! The flesh will make you fall.
You can be born again
You can be a child of god
you can be a part of the body of Christ
you can cry out, ABBA, Father!
etc etc..

Dont belong to Jesus Christ.

When a JW (Jehovahs witness) comes to your door many are left confused and frustrated unable to pinpoint what the problem was exactly. Here is a list of some things Jws happily lack (and believe that you can not possibly have either). They will try to convert you to their other hope, the...

www.christianityboard.com

Well it all really comes down to self-righteousness. Every other religion makes you justified by what you do. Where in Christianity we're justified by what Christ did for us. JWs refuse to accept this component though, so even though they're closer to the truth than say a Muslim, it's also much easier for them to reject God's grace and trust in themselves.

 

[PS95]

Well it all really comes down to self-righteousness. Every other religion makes you justified by what you do. Where in Christianity we're justified by what Christ did for us. JWs refuse to accept this component though, so even though they're closer to the truth than say a Muslim, it's also much easier for them to reject God's grace and trust in themselves.

It's very hard for some to accept a free gift. They automatically assume that we are saying to take the gift and go enjoy all of your sins. They can't hear what we say about walking in flesh vs spirit. Anything Christians teach is EVIL to them. Most people don't know that.

 

[hies]

It's very hard for some to accept a free gift. They automatically assume that we are saying to take the gift and go enjoy all of your sins. They can't hear what we say about walking in flesh vs spirit. Anything Christians teach is EVIL to them. Most people don't know that.

If you think his grace means you're given a free excuse to sin, then it just proves that you want to keep sinning deep down, and haven't repented.

If you want God to judge you based on what you have done, then because you have sinned, he will have to punish you. Because if God is good, he has to punish evil. He can't only judge the good things you have done, and ignore the bad. A price must be paid. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

So instead of being self-righteous and trusting in your own good works, you must humble yourself, realize you are completely helpless without God's grace, recognize your sin, repent of it, and trust solely in what Christ has done for you.

1 John 1:6 - If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.

Or in other words, if you claim to believe in Jesus and what he has done for you, and yet continue living a sinful life, then you're lying to yourself and to God.

Also asking God to only judge the good you have done would be like going to a court of law for murder, and telling the judge "but I helped an old woman across the street earlier today" - it doesn't matter, you're still going to be judged for the bad you've done.

Now you might say "I've never done anything that bad", but Jesus said if you even hate someone, you've committed murder in your heart. He said even looking with lust is committing adultery in your heart. God is perfect, and we are not. That's why you desperately need his grace (undeserved favour) and sacrifice for forgiveness. God cannot lie, so when he said the wages of sin is death, he meant it, and he has not changed his mind on that.

Hebrews 9:22 - In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Without Jesus' sacrifice, you are unforgiven.

 

[hies]

It's very hard for some to accept a free gift. They automatically assume that we are saying to take the gift and go enjoy all of your sins. They can't hear what we say about walking in flesh vs spirit. Anything Christians teach is EVIL to them. Most people don't know that.

Also to be clear, repentance has nothing to do with works or the law. It's a change of mind and heart about your sinful nature: Is Repentance a Work?

In order to receive the gift, you must turn to Christ and trust in Him to save you. In order to turn to Him, you must repent.

How can you believe your sins deserve death and continue living in them?

 

[PS95]

Also to be clear, repentance has nothing to do with works or the law. It's a change of mind and heart about your sinful nature: Is Repentance a Work?

In order to receive the gift, you must turn to Christ and trust in Him to save you. In order to turn to Him, you must repent.

How can you believe your sins deserve death and continue living in them?

I certainly hear you, my friend. JWs admit they are sinners. They say they understand grace, but arent anywhere close. They reject God's ANSWER to sin.
Since to them, Jesus could only die for one man ( because he was just a man with an angel impersonal life force?)- one man in exchange for one man's sin.. they will say He died for the whole world but it doesn't mean what you think to them..
they teach that Jesus only died for Adam's sin- original sin. ( yet, Adam wont be forgiven)
They reject that the blood of Jesus' covers sins for believers. They believe that their own physical death is payment to God for their sins & will be forgiven. (that's that romans 6 thing)
My head is gonna burst so I will stop there!

 

[PS95]

Not many takers? Know who is at your door. Plant a seed. Educate others.

 

[Behold]

It's interesting for Christians to find out that the "Father of Gnosticism"... whose name is Valentinus, almost became a Catholic POPE.

It was only a matter of a few "votes".. and maybe 2 days later, had that vote been taken, He would have become a POPE.

 

[PS95]

It's interesting for Christians to find out that the "Father of Gnosticism"... whose name is Valentinus, almost became a Catholic POPE.

It was only a matter of a few "votes".. and maybe 2 days later, had that vote been taken, He would have become a POPE.

Cerinthus (50-100 CE) predated Valentinus.(100-180 CE)

EFC's wrote that John knew him and wrote to address his heresy. Hence, this thread.

 

[PS95]

bump for jws. do you see all of these similarities? There are many!

 

[hies]

It's actually quite similar with Islam: False Prophets - YouTube

This was all prophesied. "There's just 3 little things we gotta disagree on"

 

[PS95]

It's actually quite similar with Islam: False Prophets - YouTube

This was all prophesied. "There's just 3 little things we gotta disagree on"

It's been made clear to me that JWs accept Islam more than Christians. Same with Jw and buddists. I have heard it several times-" I have more in common with them_______ than Christiandom. " You would think that would be a wake up call for them.
I was told by a Jw- "Islam means peace"................NO IT DOESN'T! It means submission.
Salaam, means peace in arabic . similar to Jewish- Shalom
I will check out your video. I admit to not knowing much about islam other than, they call Jesus a prophet but their guy, MO, is better.
LIP service is given to Jesus.
Works based salvation
legalism
want to take the world over and put all under their oppression
make God sound like a twisted psycho
can't leave or else..

sounds like a jw to me.

 

[PS95]

"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity of life. His life-force was not to be extinguished but would be transferred to the ovum of the virgin girl, Mary." WT 2-15-82 p. 7

WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT???

if you actually think about that one, that would make Michael the father of Jesus, wouldn't it? Union and Mary's egg (ovum) and Michaels' impersonal life force?
Isn't the latter normally the father of the child?

Does this make Michael God now or YHWH grandpop?

Oh my head..

 

[PS95]

It's actually quite similar with Islam: False Prophets - YouTube

This was all prophesied. "There's just 3 little things we gotta disagree on"

3 little things!

 

[whitemorning]

Cerinthus, a first-century Gnostic, taught that Jesus was a mere man and that the spirit of Christ joined him at his baptism and left him before his crucifixion. The apostle John denied these teachings, emphasizing that Jesus is the Christ and that the Word became flesh (John 1:14). Sometimes you need to play a game to recharge httр://penaltyshootout-slot.com/ It will help you relax and relieve stress