The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Timtofly]

Paradise is where the throne of God is. Where we will be. Spiritual Israel.
KJV Revelation 2:7
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God....
KJV Revelation 22:1-2
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The church has already been physically in Paradise. The thief on the cross next to Jesus went to Paradise that day. On Sunday morning Jesus ascended to Paradise, and took the OT redeemed church with Him to Paradise. Stephen went directly to Paradise. He saw Jesus standing to greet him, as his soul left the physical body of death, and entered that eternal body of life.

Not spiritual Israel as that is an earthly term for those on the earth. Those in Paradise are no longer in a state of death, but have passed from death unto life. People from the last 2 millenia have already been overcomers, already experiencing the tree of life in Paradise.

But the river in Revelation 22 will not be created until the NHNE, and will be physically on the New Earth. The same tree of life started out on earth, but will not be back on earth until after the Day of the Lord. So the church will still be the called out assembly like the one called out of Egypt, still waiting in heaven until all things have been accomplished on the earth, during the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus as King on the earth.

 

[WPM]

More hints needed?????
1)John
2)The two witnesses
3)The 2 Jewish gatherings during the trib.
Yes all see that you do not know this basic Bible 101.
You are showing them that.
Need the verses????
I can also do that homework for you.
I saw it years ago, but I do not follow your teachers that omit verses.
There are maybe 6 or 7 raptures in the Bible.
God is a rapture God.
Oh...Rapture = "caught up".
God Is the " catching up" God.
Most of those raptures He never touches earth.
Only one does he touch earth.
Can you show us that one?

This is all gibberish unsupported by Scripture. You have nothing but what you have been taught.

 

[Randy Kluth]

2 Thes 2.1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

So the question has been raised: Was Paul strictly warning the Christians to not trust in any so-called "Rapture of the Church" until after Antichrist is revealed, or was he warning them that the "Rapture of the Church" cannot take place until Antichrist is actually destroyed? I'd like to make a few points on this.

1) The implication is that there is only one Coming of Christ for his Church, which in this text happens when Antichrist is destroyed. There is absolutely no reference to a Pretrib Rapture or to a Midtrib Rapture which takes place *before* the destruction of Antichrist.

There is assumed to be only one Coming of Christ for his Church, and it is explicitly placed at the destruction of Antichrist. Any assumption that a Secret Rapture takes place prior to this point is an assumption and an argument from silence, which is illegitimate.

Go by the explicit text here regarding Christ's Coming. Unless we are to add to Scripture an illicit Pretrib/Midtrip Coming the teaching is clear. 1st Antichrist is revealed. Then he is destroyed at Christ's Coming for his Church. Anything else added to this is an attempt to change Paul's intended meaning.

2) Why then did Paul warn 1st that Antichrist's "revelation" must take place, as opposed to his "destruction?" It is because Paul was wanting Christians to be on guard against the deception that would precede the destruction of Antichrist. Once Antichrist is destroyed there is no need of concern about whether Christ has come yet or not!

So the idea is to anticipate false teaching about Christ's Coming even before the destruction of Antichrist. This is why Paul warned the Christians not just to expect Christ's Coming at the destruction of Antichrist but also to be wary of false teaching about Christ's Coming *before* he comes to destroy Antichrist.

The so-called Pretrib or Midtrib Raptures are some of this "false teaching" that precedes the actual 2nd Coming of Christ at the destruction of Antichrist. These are teachings that Paul was warning about, not to accept a purported Coming of Christ that precedes the actual destruction of Antichrist.

Antichrist and prophetic deceptions precede the actual Coming of Christ for his Church. So the Church must be prepared for that even before his actual Coming! Believe in the text, and don't add to it! Some things are bound to be assumed, but we cannot assume something is doctrinal unless it is actually stated as such.

The one Coming of Christ is stated doctrinally. The fact Christ comes for his Church to destroy Antichrist and to deliver the Church from tribulation is doctrinal. Believe it, and don't believe "mystery revelation"--it is a fraud!

Scripture is made explicit precisely so that we can expose private revelation that comes from the spirit world and not from the Scripture text. Scripture is given to keep us from wandering astray with our imaginations and with the coercion of men and angels. Let's stick to the Bible!

Heb 9.28 he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

[The Light]

There are not 2 comings of Jesus, as you claim, but one final future coming. There are several recaps in Revelation that cover the same last days intra-Advent era and that culminate with the one final future climactic return of Christ. The detail is the same. The only way you can deny the correlation and comparison between the 7 trumpets and the 7 vials is bias theology that requires you to deny the evidence. As a former Pretribber, and as a former Police Officer, I am convinced that the Amil Idealist view (that of 7 recaps in Revelation) is biblically and evidently compelling. Please compare. By comparing the seven trumpets to the seven vials we see a remarkable detailed, yet symbolic, picture of God’s sovereign dealings with wickedness and the wicked. It relates to the period sandwiched between Christ’s two Advents since he made a show openly of the devil at Calvary. In comparing the two, we view the same events from slightly different camera angles. Although, coming from divergent angles, the parallels are clearly indisputable.

John was simply shown a number of parallel visions one after the other, all culminating in the climactic coming of Christ. Each parallel concentrate on the same time period and the symbolic ongoing events that occur throughout, viewing them from slightly different camera angles.

I totally agree that there are parallel visions. But there is not just one coming of Christ.

The parallels reveal the increasing degrees of intensity of the intra-Advent conflict between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness, culminating in a great final gathering for battle and the climactic return of Christ to obliterate all rebellion.

I will focus in on the end of each cycle that I have proposed as time and space doesn’t allow me to perform a complete exposition of Revelation.

CYCLE 1 (received on Patmos)

Seven Churches (Ch 2-3).

Although addressed to 7 local churches to sort out local problems. The constant theme of the Coming Christ and His kingdom pervades throughout.

Ok

CYCLE 2 (received in heaven)

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

The seventh seal is silence in response to the destruction of the world in the sixth seal.

The world is not destroyed at the 6th seal. The sixth seal is the second coming. This coming does not occur at the 7th trumpet.

Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the second harvest. This is the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The wrath of God is getting to happen when the 7th seal is opened. Jesus comes at the 6th seal. There is a harvest, and the world is cast into the 1 year, Day of the Lord, wrath of God.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Which we also see in Rev 14
Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Summary.............Jesus comes at the 6th seal. This is the second coming. THEN the 7th seal is opened and the trumpet of wrath begin. The 7th seal is the one year Day of the Lord.

Revelation 6:12-7:17 gives us the detail of the sixth seal. The first part of the seal (that which is contained within Revelation 6) is given over to describing the wrath of ‘the day of the Lord’ and His judgment upon the wicked. Whereas, the second part of the seal (which takes up the whole of Revelation 7) is given over to describing that which relates to the elect of God on the day of the Lord – the day of His Second Coming.

There is no second part of the 6th seal. Jesus comes. All eyes see the coming of the Lord. They try to hide in caves etc because they know that the 1 year Day of the Lord is about to begin.

The first aspect, is outlined in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Before the aforementioned destruction is implemented the Lord has to instigate an important deliverance. We find this in the second part of the sixth seal found in Revelation 7:1-4,which says, “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”

You need to understand that Revelation 14 occurs in the 1st 6 seals as does Rev 13. Those 144,000 have to be sealed before the 5th seal as they are raptured to heaven before the great tribulation. Here is the great tribulation in Revelation 14. And we know that the tribulation of those days is the great tribulation and is OVER at the 6th seal as Christ has returned for a harvest.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The awful destruction outlined in Revelation 6 CANNOT be perfected until the righteous are totally and completely saved.

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

The End!!!

Those 144,000 are the first fruits of the second harvest. They do not go through 7th seal wrath of God. They have to be in heaven before the 5th seal which is the great tribulation.

CYCLE 3 (received in heaven)

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8:6-10:7)

Previously in Scripture we have learnt that the coming of the Lord is ushered in by the sound of the trumpet. By clear implication, if the last trump relates to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ there must be others that precede it.

There are other trumpets. The last trump is the last of a series of 100 trumpet blasts. The last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets, the day of the fall fruit harvest. These feasts of God tell us exactly what is going to occur in the last days.

 

[The Light]

Revelation seems to support this weighty inference. Moreover, the seven trumpets outlined in Revelation chapters 8 to 10 are the ONLY set of prophetic trumpets in Scripture.

Revelation 10:1-4 declares, describing the seventh trumpet, “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.”

The symbolism and authority surrounding this great heavenly angel proves beyond a doubt that it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ and a picture of His glorious Second Coming.

Revelation 10:5-7 says of the Second Advent and the concluding last trumpet, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

When the trumpet of the 7th angel sounds Christ has returned to earth to set up His kingdom. Armageddon has already happened.

The End!!!

The King James Version interprets the passage correctly:

“chronos ouketi estai”

time - no longer – there shall be

The interpretation of these Greek words in this passage is in clear and absolute agreement with their usage everywhere else in Scripture. Those who interpret it otherwise probably do so to explain away the undoubted finality of the second coming.

Anyway, the whole import of the rest of the passage perfectly confirms the all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, saying, “when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of god should be finished.”

Revelation 11:15-17 makes reference to the seventh angel with the last trump, again being in complete agreement with consistent New Testament teaching (including Revelation 10) on this single, final, all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, saying, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.”

The next verse, verse 18 then reveals how the Second Advent ushers in the general judgment, saying, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest (1) give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest (2) destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

The End!!!

The last trump is for a harvest at the 6th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. Those seven trumpets blown by angels are the wrath of God .............The day of the Lord.

The unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump - the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” NOT for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.”

The scripture says He will reign 1000 years and then Satan is let loose.

Revelation 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[Timtofly]

Daniel said that Nebuchadnezzar lived as a wild animal "until seven times will pass over thee".
KJV Daniel 4:32
32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Seven years.

Times, time, and half a time is 3 and a half years. Daniel 12:7 and Daniel 7:25 speak of the same power. That same power is also referred to in Revelation 13:5, and 11:2. That power is papal Rome. The same time period is measured against the time God's people were persecuted by that power. You will find that in Revelation 11:3, 12:6, and 12:14. That period ran from 538AD to effectiv 1798AD. 538AD was the year Justinian's decree to give the Pope official authority (see Revelation 13:2) over other bishops was made effective through the decisive battle of Rome when Belisarius ousted the Goths who were inhibiting the bishop of Rome from exercising autonomy and authority. In 1798 Napoleon's general Berthier entered Rome, placed the Pope under arrest who subsequently died in exile, disbanded the college of Cardinals, declared the papal states a republic, and effectively dismantled the political power and authority of the Roman bishop over secular nations. Her tenure as a union of church and state came to a brief end. This was the head that "as it were was wounded to death". That wound is now healing, quickly. Starting in 1928 when Mussolini reinstated the Catholic Bishop as a political power in the Vatican. His power has since grown exponentially. But ironically, it won't be Rome that enforces the mark of its own authority. That pleasure behind to the false prophet, the second beast of Revelation 13. Protestant America.

Time to God is not the same as time to man. Why are you conflating the two?

Nebuchadnezzar experienced his own times. History is the patience of God. No man can live the full length of history. History is the passing of God's time, that humans can enjoy bits and pieces of in their time. Punishment is human time, a day for a year. The Day of the Lord is God's time, a day for a millenia.

Daniel 12:6-7

"And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."

Time for these wonders to be completed was not 3.5 years later. This would be 3500 years later.

Daniel 7:25

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

That was a 3.5 year period already finished during the Reformation. Nebuchadnezzar did have a 7 year time out period, to humble him. 483 years did happen between Daniel, and the middle of the first century BC.

The papal ten toes is over. There is no 10 nation papal confederacy to rule over an empire that controls all other nations on the earth. The 6th kingdom has the mortal wound, and will only be healed after the Second Coming. Satan will be revealed as the man of sin to heal that 6th head, after the Second Coming.

Satan will have ten humans called kings but without kingdoms or nations. You have to consider Revelation 17.

"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen (Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, and your Holy Roman Empire, called papal states. All these stopped at the Reformation), and one is (the mortally wounded head, mentined in chapter 13), and the other (Satan, himself, never a recognized king) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (42 months per Revelation 13). And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition (Satan)."

Satan is the dragon with the other 6 historical heads. There will be only 7 kingdoms, but Satan is not the 7th, but the 8th, after a 7th kingdom, which is not even part of this 7 headed entity.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

John clearly wrote these 10 humans have no kingdom at that point. They only receive power for one hour, and the reward is assumed their own kingdom, after that hour. But what have they given their all to Satan for?

"These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

This is the battle of Armageddon. That is the end. They never receive a kingdom, so can never represent any past nation ever. They are not the ten toes from Daniel 2. They are not the 10 horns from Daniel 7. They only make their selves known after the Second Coming. That is why Jesus is on the earth during Jacob's Trouble. Satan as the man of sin cannot be revealed along with these ten humans until spiritual blindness is removed from all humanity by the Second Coming. The 6th mortally wounded head cannot be healed until after God moves the continents and mountains around at the 6th Seal. Healing the wound prior to that would just mean a second death wound given.

I agree that a kingdom is mortally wounded. I don't agree that humans are healing that wound. Only Satan will be given credit, and that means all humans will know who Satan is.

"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

The dragon is still Satan, the beast, the man of sin, the one all will worship. How can all worship someone they don't even believe exists? Satan is still the beast in conjunction with human government, this time they know who is the power behind man's blatant rebellion against Jesus and God.

The first and only other human besides the ten horns, without kingdoms is the FP. That is the mouth or spokesman of this rebellion against God. A charismatic person who we might know now, or will be soon introduced by the sudden appearance of Jesus at the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. Not so. The Scriptures speak for themselves. Let us put your theology to the test. Let us examine your so-called "proof-texts" one by one.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 declares, “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

This passage corroborates the Posttrib position. We have already shown, Christ comes with and for His saints in one glorious final coming. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” We have also highlighted the fact the word rendered “remain” in our King James Version is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Thus, we can assume from this meaning that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving. Obviously, they endured the tribulation that this world affords to every saint.

The word "final" is not found in that text, but adding it, shows that you manipulate the text to prove your own opinions.

Paul expected to survive as well? Was Paul post trib, because he assumed the tribulation happened in the first century?

This tribulation is not humans making trouble for other humans. This tribulation is Jesus on earth literally using angels to toss those alive, alive into the LOF. All of those will survive physical death, but be eternally lost in the LOF.

 

[The Light]

CYCLE 4 (received in heaven)

The Church and its onslaught from the devil (Ch 12)

That is not the Church in Rev 12. Those who keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the seed of the woman which is the twelve tribes across the earth.

including a parallel view of the beast’s (the world anti-Christ system – intra-advent) persecution of the elect (Ch 13) and the simultaneous joy of the redeemed (Ch 14) in heaven (Ch 12-14).

Those are 144,000 from the 12 tribes in heaven. These events in Rev 13 and 14 take place in the 1st 6 seals.

Revelation 14:14-20 says, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Christ), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; For the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud (Christ) thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”

This is the gathering from heaven and earth which is the second coming which occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE the 1-year Day of the Lord, wrath of God

The End!!!

CYCLE 5 (received in heaven)

Seven Vials (Ch 16)

If our supposition is to fit perfectly, the final vial, in keeping with the final trumpet, must be an unmistakable description of the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture of the saints. Similarly, it must also be a solemn picture of the outpouring of God’s wrath upon the wicked and the end of the world.

Revelation 16:17-21 declares, “And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, ‘It is done’ (or Gegonen). And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”

The End!!!

The trumpets and vials occur in the same timeframe. They are different views with different info of the same timeframe..............The Day of the Lord.

 

[The Light]

CYCLE 6 (received in heaven)

Babylon (17-19)

Revelation 19:7-10 tells us, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb."

Here is the great meeting in the air when Jesus comes. This is when the Church throughout time meets Christ in the air. This is the same scene portrayed in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9.

His “wife” is said to have “made herself ready.”

Ready for what?

Ready, “for the marriage of the Lamb.” Whilst we (the Church) have been betrothed to Christ in salvation, the marriage will not be finally consummated until the Bridegroom comes.

Clearly “the marriage of the Lamb” to “his wife” is referring to the final consummation of the relationship between Christ and His bride – the Church – at the second coming. This woman with her innate purity is such a contrast to the whore in the introductory verses that is judged. The two women couldn’t be more diverse. One is judged the other is blessed. The status of the Lamb’s wife is outlined in the passage and confirms her honoured status; “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” The bride is the body of believers down through the years, which have placed their trust and eternity on the blood of Christ, whether in the old or the new economy.

The marriage union is the glorification feat where we are eternally changed in order to enjoy God forever – this is the final act of redemption. This is the marriage of the Lamb. In short, a prepared bride is made ready to unite with a prepared bridegroom. For this climactic event she is arrayed in the righteousness of Christ. This is her worthiness for marriage.

The marriage does not occur in the air. It occurs in heaven.

Revelation 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

After “the marriage of the Lamb,” which is the glorification of the saints of all time (including the dead in Christ and the live in Christ), the saints return as an army (following Christ) to destroy the wicked. John continues, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword (the Word of God), that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall poimaino (or ‘shepherd’) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 19:11-16).

Revelation 19:17-21 continues, “And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant (or those left behind) were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”
The End!!!

The armies leave heaven..........where the throne is.

Those who hold the Premillennialist position often advance this passage as support for their mistaken view that Christ is coming back to this earth to reign for a thousand years. However, the word poimaino in this reading which is rendered “rule” in the AV, carries the consistent meaning of Shepherd and shepherding in Scripture.

The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have attacked His sheep. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.

He is coming with wrath. He will then set up His kingdom on earth as His feet will touch the mount of Olives.

CYCLE 7 (received in heaven)

The figurative binding of Satan from the cross and the victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22).

Here we have a great spiritual assault upon the Church just prior to the end. In keeping with the rest of Scripture, fire comes down from heaven and devours the wicked.

Revelation 20:11-15 says, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

CONCLUSION

I don’t believe any open-minded objective Bible student could arrive at any conclusion other than the fact that Revelation is a number of similar parallels taking us up to the Second Advent (the day of God’s wrath) and the end of the world (when time shall undoubtedly be no more). This pattern happens repeatedly through the New Testament. Also, they are clearly intra-advent.

Here are the parallels short and simple.

Revelation 4 and 5 shows the Lord has come for His bride.
Revelation 6, the 1st 6 seal is what Jesus is telling us in Matthew 24.
The second coming occurs at the 6th seal it is a harvest seen in Rev 14.
The 7th seal is the 1-year day of the Lord, wrath of God.
Wrath is over and the 7th trumpet.

Want another view?
Revelation 13 and 14 occur in the 1st 6 seals
Revelation 16 and 16 occur in the 7th seal

Revelation is written like Genesis 7. We get 3 views of Noah loading the animals, but He only loads them once. We get three views of the flood but there is one flood.

In Revelation we get two views of the 1st 6 seals.................Revelation 6 and Revelation 13-14.
We get two views of the 7th seal wrath of God.......................Revelation 8-11 and Revelation 12-16

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It says nothing at all what happens to those left behind. You take an idiom by Jesus and twist it in hopes to make a case against the previous verses.

It indicates very clearly what happens to them, but you are too stubborn to admit that.

Everything that I highlight in red in the following passage relates to what will happen to those who are left.

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

Only extreme doctrinal bias can lead someone to conclude that those left will be left alive rather than being destroyed as Jesus so very clearly indicated.

The rest of your post is me showing in scripture where he kills all refusing the mark, and you going against the bible.

I going against the bible? No, what's what you're doing when you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge what Luke 17:26-37 indicates about what will happen to those who are left.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then you are describing the foolish as heathen?

Yes, obviously. Why do you think they are called "foolish"? Where else are saved people called "foolish" in scripture? Nowhere. You always interpret verses or passages in isolation from other scripture. If your interpretation of any given verse or passage contradicts other scripture, you apparently don't care about that since you seem to make no effort to be careful about not doing that.

Heathens are pure,set apart,undefiled,containing the Holy Spirit,watching,and waiting for Jesus??

Where does it describe the foolish virgins in that way? Nowhere. You are once again adding to scripture to make it fit your doctrine. You need to learn to interpret scripture with scripture so that you stop contradicting scripture.

Tell me, do you not see any similarity between the following passages:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Clearly, these passages are speaking of the same day when Jesus comes. Notice in Matthew 7:23 that He will tell those who try to plead with Him saying "Lord, Lord..." that He doesn't know them and to get away from Him. And He calls them "evildoers". Do you actually think that Jesus would talked to saved people who belong to Him like that? No way!

And look at what happens to those who say "Lord, Lord" like the foolish virgins on that day, according to Jesus in Luke 13:28. They are turned away to a place where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth". That's talking about hell or the lake of fire that other scripture associates with "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Not off to face an imaginary Antichrist during an imaginary tribulation period after the rapture.

Heathens sleeping with born again saints.?

Why is that hard for you to understand when Jesus talked about similar things elsewhere?

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The wise virgins and the wheat refer to believers in the church and the foolish virgins and the tares are those who are not in the church. Very simple. Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me" (Matthew 12:30). You try to create at least 3 groups of people (bride of Christ, saved not in the bride of Christ, unsaved), but Jesus divided everyone into only 2 groups. Your interpretation of Matthew 25:1-13 contradicts many scriptures.

No. Rebuilder took you to school.

I'm not interested in joining you in your elementary school. You should try to move beyond that level.

Your doctrine, now in damage control , left it out, totally left it out. So now we see why I am here

Yes. You are here to spread your false teaching. Knowingly or not, that is what you're doing.

To force you into the word. Or go against it.
You chose the latter.

No, I'm against your false interpretations of the Word of God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What post has you addressing the 2 raptures of the 144k and Rev 14:14.

There have been so many posts at this point that I'm not going to take the time to try to find them.

Where is the scripture which refers to a rapture of the 144,000? I asked you that before and you didn't answer the question. If you did, I missed it. Which can happen since there are so many posts in this thread. You obviously missed where I already addressed those passages.

As for Revelation 14:14-16, I've referenced it multiple times. It refers to the Son of Man gathering people from the earth to Himself, which reminds me of 1st Thessalonians 4:14-17.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I presented 2 lengthy posts yesterday, and you did your usual - totally avoided them. It is a waste of time engaging with you 3.

It really is. We address opposing arguments and present our views in detail and then get accused of avoiding their arguments. Their childishness level is off the charts. I've seen third graders who are more mature than these guys. Plus, we've already won the debate going away. We should just invoke the mercy rule at this point. One side backs up their view extensively with clear scripture and the other....does not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The rapture of rev14:14 has nothing of your description, and can not possibly be the second coming on white horses.
SMH.
whew...invincible ignorance.

LOL at the idea of the white horses being literal. They are not. Christ's coming is described symbolically in Revelation 19. He will not be literally riding on a white horse when He comes. Please ask God for wisdom to be able to discern the difference between literal and symbolic text (James 1:5-7).

 

[Timtofly]

What in the world are you going on about? For Jesus to return from heaven in the same manner that He ascended to heaven simply means He will return bodily and visibly just as He ascended to heaven bodily and visibly. Reading more into it than that is a case of adding to scripture to make it fit your doctrine.

So instead of saying Jesus steps onto the Mount of Olives like Acts 1 or Zechariah 14, you want us to accept Jesus comes on a white horse or not to Mount Megiddo, and then rides that horse to the Mount of Olives or walks on foot, if no white horse, and then completes the prophecy that Jesus puts His feet on the Mount of Olives or not?

Do you think anywhere on earth counts, but not on the Mount of Olives?

No one is "reading into Scripture" that His feet touch down on the Mount of Olives. That is Scripture:

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,"

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey."

If Jesus was standing on the Mount of Olives, when He left, why is it so much trouble to you all that He returns just the way He left?

Paul does not have to explicitly state the point or location, because they all already understand that. But when John gives a whole different scenario, you balk at the idea that they are not the same event, you want them to be.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So instead of saying Jesus steps onto the Mount of Olives like Acts 1 or Zechariah 14, you want us to accept Jesus comes on a white horse or not to Mount Megiddo, and then rides that horse to the Mount of Olives or walks on foot, if no white horse, and then completes the prophecy that Jesus puts His feet on the Mount of Olives or not?

That came across as very incoherent, but what I did catch is that you said something about Jesus stepping onto the Mount of Olives. Jesus will not be setting foot on the Mount of Olives in the future. That certainly is not said at all in Acts 1 and you are misinterpreting Zechariah 14.

Tell me, when do you believe the following occurs? At Christ's return before He sets foot on the Mount of Olives?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Do you think anywhere on earth counts, but not on the Mount of Olives?

Can you try asking intelligible questions? Is that too much to ask?

No one is "reading into Scripture" that His feet touch down on the Mount of Olives. That is Scripture:

Yes, it is scripture and His feet touched down on the Mount of Olives already long ago. No reason to think He will do so again. Instead, He will be burning up and renewing this earth (including the Mount of Olives) with fire when He comes (2 Peter 3:10-12), resulting in the new earth.

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,"

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey."

If Jesus was standing on the Mount of Olives, when He left, why is it so much trouble to you all that He returns just the way He left?

It does not say He will return to the location from where He left. Can you acknowledge that? Instead, it says He will descend from heaven in the same manner that He ascended to heaven. What manner was that? Visibly and bodily. There is no reason to read any more into Acts 1:9-11 than that. Unless you insist on bringing doctrinal bias into this.

But when John gives a whole different scenario, you balk at the idea that they are not the same event, you want them to be.

That what are not the same event? Please learn how to speak intelligibly. Take an English class or something.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I totally agree that there are parallel visions.

It's honestly almost shocking that you even recognize that. You sometimes come across like you think every verse in Revelation is about a different event.

But there is not just one coming of Christ.

And now you've gone off the rails. I give you kudos for recognizing that there are parallel visions in the book of Revelation, but you are not understanding that each one leads up to the one future coming of Christ. Too bad. Oh well. Keep praying and studying.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does this say that the beast "kills all refusing the mark"? It looks like that is your assumption. It says he makes war with the saints and overcomes them, but does not say he literally overcomes (kills) all of them. Your doctrine is based purely on assumptions and speculation.

Satan has had the church deceived with Amillennial eschatology for hundreds of years. That is overcoming the saints without literally killing them, so you are covered.

This taking the mark happens after the Second Coming, because you all refuse to see Jesus and the angels on the earth for the final harvest, even though that is what Matthew 13 explicitly states, and Matthew 25:31-32. But don't let those passages get in the way of your interpretation of Matthew 24. You have to twist and change more Scripture to fit your view, than the pre-trib view does.

So far all you have is one verse that says after the tribulation of those days. Those generic days that started at Pentecost.

 

[Timtofly]

There are not 2 comings of Jesus, as you claim, but one final future coming. There are several recaps in Revelation that cover the same last days intra-Advent era and that culminate with the one final future climactic return of Christ.

So now it is ok to add your own human opinion to God's Word?

You have to go with human understanding foisted upon the text to get it to work out for you.

That is not exegesis.

 

[Timtofly]

The cycles or parallels in Revelation are clear. There is no way to make sense of the book and no way to make it agree with the rest of scripture if you don't recognize the repeated cycles/parallels/recapitulations in the book.

Your way or God's Way.

There are no cycles in Revelation as that is only human opinion, that started out private, but taught to many people as a reason to deny the actual Word of God publicly.