The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[rebuilder 454]

Nah. You seem to be making it up as you go.

Did I say the 24 elders was the Church. No.

I said the 24 elders had crowns and that means Jesus has come. Simple


Rev 1
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Rev 1
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;




There are 5 wise and 5 foolish. You do the math.

Jesus has come. There are 24 elders in heaven with crowns.


Jesus has come in Rev 4 as the 24 elders have crown and there are kings and priests in heaven in Rev 5


They are in heaven at the marriage supper so they will be part of that event.


Just a bunch of nonsense. Not worth my time.

I guess since the word postrib rapture is nowhere in Rev., we can also conclude there is no postrib rapture.

 

[The Light]

I guess since the word postrib rapture is nowhere in Rev., we can also conclude there is no postrib rapture.

Thats a dandy. Wish I had thought of it. It would have saved me some time. LOL

 

[Randy Kluth]

I just take postribbs to the verses.
That ends their deal...every time

To what verses? None of your verses are explicit Pretrib Doctrine. The mediator in any disagreement should be Scriptural doctrine--not subjective views of parables and symbolism.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I guess since the word postrib rapture is nowhere in Rev., we can also conclude there is no postrib rapture.

That is so weak! Nobody is saying that English words need to be in Greek manuscripts. What we need to be able to read in the original and in translations is *doctrine*--not subjective interpretations of symbols and parables.

 

[Randy Kluth]

QUOTE
"""It has equally nothing to do with the percentage of society that will know Christ when He comes. The 50/50 breakdown is an earthly illustration relating to preparedness; some were wise and prepared others were foolish and were caught on. This is what will happen when Jesus comes. Remember, the broad road holds the vast bulk of mankind. There are few on the narrow road. This truth is played out throughout Scripture"""

you just implied half the world will be ready, then you said the bulk of mankind....
Huh?????
That 50% deal is way out of any postribber workbook.
To be honest. They can not answer it.
They literally CAN NOT.

The 50% may not even be an effort by Jesus to predict the % of Salvation on earth. It may simply be designed to show that there is a 50/50 proposition that can be answered by "I'm prepared" or "I'm not prepared." Each person has a yes or no proposition--just 2 choices. That may be why there is a 50% success rate given with a 50% failure rate, because there are only 2 possibilities.

The 50/50 percentage could also be an indication that within the organized group of believers in Israel in Jesus' time half of those who claimed to have faith may only have temporary faith. It may be an actual approximate percentage that can go either way. At any rate, please stop staying that Postribs do not or can not offer answers on these matters. That is blatantly dishonest.

 

[WPM]

Nah. You seem to be making it up as you go.

Did I say the 24 elders was the Church. No.

I said the 24 elders had crowns and that means Jesus has come. Simple


Rev 1
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Rev 1
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;




There are 5 wise and 5 foolish. You do the math.

Jesus has come. There are 24 elders in heaven with crowns.


Jesus has come in Rev 4 as the 24 elders have crown and there are kings and priests in heaven in Rev 5


They are in heaven at the marriage supper so they will be part of that event.


Just a bunch of nonsense. Not worth my time.

So, if the 24 elders are not the Church, and the kings and priests are not the Church, who is the Church, where is the Church? They obviously are not on earth and not in heaven between Rev 4-19. Where are they?

 

[The Light]

So, if the 24 elders are not the Church, and the kings and priests are not the Church,

Where did I say the kings and priests are not the Church. I showed you in Rev 1 that the Churches were made kings and priests

who is the Church, where is the Church? They obviously are not on earth and not in heaven between Rev 4-19. Where are they?

Listen. You continue to put out a bunch of bogus nonsense because you were caught changing the scripture. You seem to have no fear of God and only care about protecting a fallen doctrine developed by unbelieving men. There is not much time left and there are so many foolish virgins. Time runs short.

 

[MA2444]

I appreciate your honesty in admitting that Pretrib is not clearly taught in the Bible. But your argument from "concealment" and "mystery" runs contrary to the NT revelation of Scripture, which is an unveiling of truth. Mormons, JWs and RCs use the same rhetoric to justify their extra-biblical teaching. Pretrib is not in good company. Scripture is enlightenment. Truth is clearly taught and retaught. It can be grasped by the simple. It is not just for the learned.

The Bible teaching on the second coming coming couldn't be clearer or simpler: when Jesus comes that is it. It is the end! Men are either ready or caught unexpectedly; they are caught up or caught on. They are either saved or lost. What is more, Scripture places our existence into two distinct and diverse ages: “this age” and” the age to come.” These two could not be more different. Simply put: “this age” refers to “time” and “the age to come” or the “hereafter” refers to “eternity.” This is age is full of sin, death and corruption. The age to come is pristine, perfect and incorrupt. I could teach a child this.

Pretrib makes end-time teaching a convoluted cryptic mess that can only be understood by those who have studied the subject intensely. But even after years of trying to put the dots together, Pretribber still cannot get everything to add up. It is easy to get men who have taught this doctrine 40 years in circles because they cannot even truly explain it. It simply doesn't add up.

Remember, even a parable is a simple earthly story with a heavenly meaning. There are deep spiritual revelations that are simplified so that we can grasp them. This is not Jesus speaking cryptically or mystically, it is Jesus speaking spiritually, simply and clearly. The truth is only concealed from the unenlightened. Parables are invented stories that serve to illustrate deep profound spiritual truths that pertain to reality.

There is a simplicity to God’s truth. But we complicate it.

Your reference to Proverbs 25:2 has nothing to do with what we are talking about. It is not even in context.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 do not teach (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a third coming of Christ. You know that. You admit that.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 has nothing to do with what you are claiming. It declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed [Gr. allasso], In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed [Gr. allasso]. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

This passage is describing the great supernatural change that occurs to God’s people when Jesus returns and takes them from a temporal fallen “flesh and blood” existence to an eternal glorified condition. Corruptibility and mortality are shown here to be interlinked. Incorruption and immortality are also shown to be enjoined. They describe the two converse states existing in two completely different dimensions.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 confirms this saying: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

There is a catching away ("rapture") here, but no tribulation period following. That is because it is ongoing since the early Church. If Pretrib was true, this is where you would find it, but no, It is not here. Neither can you add it to the inspired text. That is forbidden. What follows Christ's climactic appearing then? Total destruction!

This is a record of Christ’s one and only future coming. This reading describes how Christ comes “with” and “for” His saints the next time. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Those living believers will be “caught up” to meet Jesus when He appears. This is the final uniting of the elect on earth (the live in Christ) and those in heaven (the dead in Christ). It is accompanied by the great sound of the trump ushering in the end. The word rendered “remain” in our King James Version (which relates to those that are alive at Christ’s coming) is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Thus, we can take from this reading that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving. These are tribulation saints.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

Are you being obtuse on purspose or are you really that stupid? In no way did I admit that pretrib rapture isnt taught in the bible. I implied that you must use you thinking skills and since you dont have any, it went whoosh! over your head.

No context for Proverbs, lol! That the best you got? Sounds like it.

"1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 do not teach (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a third coming of Christ. You know that. You admit that...."

Here you are outright lying because if you could read you would have seen that I TOLD YOU that I was answering only the first question. Not 3 questions. That's shameful.

 

[WPM]

I guess since the word postrib rapture is nowhere in Rev., we can also conclude there is no postrib rapture.

I never once insisted on you showing me the word "Pretrib" or even the word "rapture" in Scripture because we know they are not in the Bible. And that is fine. That would be totally unreasonable. I simple asked for proof of a rapture/catching away or something describing our gathering to Him when He appears (which we all believe) followed by a 7-year trib followed by a 3rd coming (which Postribs believe is extra-biblical). That is what Pretrib teaches. But you have all admitted you do not even have that. That is because it is an invented doctrine, just like Mormonism, forced on the sacred text.

 

[rebuilder 454]

To what verses? None of your verses are explicit Pretrib Doctrine. The mediator in any disagreement should be Scriptural doctrine--not subjective views of parables and symbolism.

Rev 14:14 alone blows everything away but pretrib rapture.
But if setting, and timing of Jesus " before the flood" is invoked, it is hands down no contest.
And the modifying necessary of the virgins parable to fit anything but a pretrib rapture is shocking.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I never once insisted on you showing me the word "Pretrib" or even the word "rapture" in Scripture because we know they are not in the Bible. And that is fine. That would be totally unreasonable. I simple asked for proof of a rapture/catching away or something describing our gathering to Him when He appears (which we all believe) followed by a 7-year trib followed by a 3rd coming (which Postribs believe is extra-biblical). That is what Pretrib teaches. But you have all admitted you do not even have that. That is because it is an invented doctrine, just like Mormonism, forced on the sacred text.

Now we learn you believe there is no rapture????
Huh?????

 

[WPM]

Dont twist my words Satan. I said not a single verse which spells out the entire rapture in the one single verse. Yes it's all throught scripture but you guys...cant be that stupid so your eveil. Liars.

I've met real posttribbers before who were really Christians, just had more to learn is all. You guys aint even post trib. You dont teach truth, you dont have good questions. And you make no sense. Be cause....that's not your agenda here! Satan!

You guys cant teach me anything. I didnt even read all of your post after you identified yourself. Or WPM's post to me! For anyone who is not absolutely without any sense of comprehension can see easily that you guys arent losing any debate. You Lost.

Do it enrage you when we post the truth?! Are you there all red faced and angry? You guys in this thread are not genuine in the least about anything!

You should seek someone to lay hands hands on you and see if you can get that evil spirit cast out of you.

You are totally out of control!

 

[WPM]

Now we learn you believe there is no rapture????
Huh?????

Read what i wrote and stop twisting. I do not believe in a Pretrib rapture. You and your fellow Pretribbers have been unable to show that in the Bible.

 

[WPM]

Are you being obtuse on purspose or are you really that stupid? In no way did I admit that pretrib rapture isnt taught in the bible. I implied that you must use you thinking skills and since you dont have any, it went whoosh! over your head.

No context for Proverbs, lol! That the best you got? Sounds like it.

"1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 do not teach (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a third coming of Christ. You know that. You admit that...."

Here you are outright lying because if you could read you would have seen that I TOLD YOU that I was answering only the first question. Not 3 questions. That's shameful.

You have nothing to bring to the table. That might explain your rhetoric.

 

[WPM]

Where did I say the kings and priests are not the Church. I showed you in Rev 1 that the Churches were made kings and priests

Listen. You continue to put out a bunch of bogus nonsense because you were caught changing the scripture. You seem to have no fear of God and only care about protecting a fallen doctrine developed by unbelieving men. There is not much time left and there are so many foolish virgins. Time runs short.

Oh, so they are back to being the Church again? Hmmm!!! You previously said:

Did I say the 24 elders was the Church. No.

Can you make up your mind? You do not seem to know what you believe on this.

 

[MA2444]

You are totally out of control!

You showed your true colors. You & your wife and your son?

You 'sposed to be a teacher? Ok, teacher, I had the context wrong about Proverbs and it is the glory of God to conceal a matter? Oh, I see.

How? Did you tell me what it really means? NO. DId you even address it beyond dismissing it? NO. So you aint no teacher.

 

[The Light]

Read what i wrote and stop twisting. I do not believe in a Pretrib rapture. You and your fellow Pretribbers have been unable to show that in the Bible.

You are correct. I can't find that you don't believe in a pretrib rapture in the Bible. Are you that special that you would be in the Bible?

 

[WPM]

You are correct. I can't find that you don't believe in a pretrib rapture in the Bible. Are you that special that you would be in the Bible?

Pretribbers must now resort to pettiness and insults. They have nothing else to bring to the table. I refer you back to the many avoided posts/arguments above.

 

[The Light]

Oh, so they are back to being the Church again? Hmmm!!! You previously said:



Can you make up your mind? You do not seem to know what you believe on this.

Just more nonsense. I challenge you to show where I said the 24 elders is the Church. What post #?

 

[The Light]

Pretribbers must now resort to pettiness and insults. They have nothing else to bring to the table. I refer you back to the many avoided posts/arguments above.

lol. You post a bunch of out context scriptures and then say you are avoided. I don't have time to deal with all of your nonsense. Let's see you find the post where I said the 24 elders is the Church. Or are you going to avoid.