T U L I P explained

[Johann]

I’m afraid the Gospel doesn’t make our spirit Born Again...only Gods Spirit can do that just as His word says.

Of course those without the Spirit would understand none of these spiritual words..they would be folly to them.

Hearing anyone preach the gospel does not make one’s spirit Born Again..that is a supernatural/spiritual act that only God can perform if it’s his will to do so..we are Born Again of Gods seed, that is by Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit....

Only the Father can draw us to Jesus by His Holy Spirit Power none can stop being chosen and predestined by God to become Born Again...mind Blowing!

My opinion/ testimony and belief.

And no Scripture references-for the gospel is the dunamis of God--
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

Let's break down the Greek words and morphology in this verse:

Gospel: In Greek, the word used here is "εὐαγγέλιον" (euangelion), which means "good news" or "good message." It refers to the message of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Power: The Greek word used is "δύναμις" (dynamis), which means power, ability, or might. It can refer to inherent power or miraculous power.

God: In Greek, "θεός" (theos) means God.

Salvation: The concept of salvation is conveyed by the phrase "εἰς σωτηρίαν" (eis soterian). "Σωτηρία" (soteria) means salvation or deliverance.

Believes: The verb "πιστεύοντι" (pisteuonti) is derived from "πιστεύω" (pisteuo), which means to believe, trust, or have faith.

Now, let's put it all together with the morphology:

"Οὐ γὰρ ἐπαισχύνομαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ Χριστοῦ, δύναμις γὰρ θεοῦ ἐστιν εἰς σωτηρίαν παντὶ τῷ πιστεύοντι, Ἰουδαίῳ τε πρῶτον καὶ Ἕλληνι." (Romans 1:16, Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament)

Translation: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

In this verse, Paul asserts that the gospel—the good news about Jesus Christ—is not just a message but a powerful manifestation of God's ability to bring salvation to all who believe, irrespective of their background or ethnicity. The gospel has the inherent power to transform lives and reconcile humanity to God through faith in Jesus Christ.

See for yourself how in a state of error you are by saying--

"I’m afraid the Gospel doesn’t make our spirit Born Again...only Gods Spirit can do that just as His word says."

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I see you have felt it too.. Now maybe you understand

Sorry, felt what?

 

[BlessedPeace]

You're a sinner.
You accept Christ as your Savior from sin.
You are reborn in Christ. A new creation washed clean by the blood of He who was propitiation for our sins, The Lamb of God . And God remembers your sins no more.

Yet, we are sinners still?

I edited the quote above to add the ? because that narrative is what I read some proposing of what it means to be a Christian.

 

[Ritajanice]

Show me in scripture where my soul does not go to heaven

and maybe you have a case.

well here. let me help

Revelation 6:9

Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs​

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Revelation 20:4

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years​

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

1 Peter 1:9

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Blessing and Admonition​

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

None of this scripture has anything to do with a Born Again ...what are you so desperately trying to prove to me...you say you are Born Again and that your soul is going to heaven...that’s your belief...it’s just not mine...so I’m not sure what you are trying to prove....

A New Heart and Spirit
…25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spiritwithin you; I will remove your heart of stoneand give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.…
Berean Standard Bible · Download



What does Gods word say...only a Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God....there you have it.

That scripture you posted is what you believe, that your soul is going to heaven,..I know where my spirit will be, with God as his Spirit indwells my spirit.

Your belief is different to mine....no problem, I post what I believe the word of God to be speaking to my heart.

I’m not sure who you think leads you through scripture...as you told me the Spirit doesn’t lead me through scripture.

So, who leads you through God’s spiritual book to bring it to your understanding in your spirit as that’s where we’re Born Again?

 

[Scott Downey]

You need to reconcile your view to the verbs which speak otherwise, as I've posted in detail.

Much love!

There is no conflict at all about when a person is born again.
You are born again, then you are a believer, will be a believer as you will have God granted faith in Christ.
You cannot prove a person is born again after they believe.

What is provable is unless someone is born again, they cannot see the kingdom , and seeing is not the same as entering, which they can't do that either unless first born again.

All those born again will believe and confess Christ as Lord to the glory of the Father, and is attributable to God's glory that you believe, it is not of yourself that you believed in Christ.

God granted you to believe in the Son of God for the sake of Christ.
Which means your being born again and your faith, God gave to you.
But your theology says that is false and cannot allow for these things.

Philippians 1

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

see, as in perceive with understanding Who Christ is.
ISV
Jesus replied to him, “Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
PHILLIPS
“Believe me,” returned Jesus, “a man cannot even see the kingdom of God without being born again.”
JUB
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a person be born again from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
AKJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
LSB
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
LEB
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless someone is born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.”
TLB
Jesus replied, “With all the earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never get into the Kingdom of God.”
MSG
Jesus said, “You’re absolutely right. Take it from me: Unless a person is born from above, it’s not possible to see what I’m pointing to—to God’s kingdom.”

 

[marks]

You cannot prove a person is born again after they believe.

Actually, this is the plain wording of John 1, that we believe, we receive, and THEN comes rebirth.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

Actually, this is the plain wording of John 1, that we believe, we receive, and THEN comes rebirth.

Much love!

That is how you have chosen to read it.
it plainly says it differently than how you have read it.

v13 qualifies the understanding of the preceding verses, as ' who were born ' is past tense, meaning it already happened prior as in came before verses 10-12.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[BlessedPeace]

You sound just like a pro-abortion supporter.

I agree.
They claim dead babies and infants don't go to Heaven. Yet they also say they don't know where they go.

That is not logical.

What do the following tell you? Where did Jesus mention Born Again regarding children?

Matthew 19:13-14
Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Mark 10:13-16
And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.
( Seems like children do not need to be.)
Luke 18:15-17
And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
(As above)

Matthew 18:2-5
And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 9:36-37
Taking a child, He set him before them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, “Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”

Luke 9:47-48
But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”

Matthew 18:10

“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14

So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Amen.

 

[BlessedPeace]

How does God save those who believe?

Much love!

You asked that of yourself there.

Your testimony is your testimony?
If it is not supported by scripture it is opinion.

 

[marks]

You asked that of yourself there.

Your testimony is your testimony?
If it is not supported by scripture it is opinion.

Yep, everyone seems to have their opinions. We seem to be big on opinions on this thread.

Meanwhile I'm seeing some very clear Scriptures being overlooked, not paid attention to.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8

King James Version

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[marks]

That is how you have chosen to read it.
it plainly says it differently than how you have read it.

v13 qualifies the understanding of the preceding verses, as ' who were born ' is past tense, meaning it already happened prior as in came before verses 10-12.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"were begotten" is the aorist tense, are you familiar with the different uses of this tense? It can serve as a simple past tense, but it may also be punctiliar as well.

Without believing, without receiving, one does not receive the power to become God's children, so this passage is clear that believing and receiving are prerequisite to rebirth.

Much love!

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yep, everyone seems to have their opinions. We seem to be big on opinions on this thread.

Meanwhile I'm seeing some very clear Scriptures being overlooked, not paid attention to.

Much love!

Well,if Holy Spirit is showing the errors in your opinions now that's a good thing. :)

 

[Johann]

Yep, everyone seems to have their opinions. We seem to be big on opinions on this thread.

Meanwhile I'm seeing some very clear Scriptures being overlooked, not paid attention to.

Much love!

A big Amen to this!

 

[Scott Downey]

"were begotten" is the aorist tense, are you familiar with the different uses of this tense? It can serve as a simple past tense, but it may also be punctiliar as well.

Without believing, without receiving, one does not receive the power to become God's children, so this passage is clear that believing and receiving are prerequisite to rebirth.

Much love!

So many other verses point to the will and purpose of God that our salvation has been predestined for some and not others, that our faith is granted to us, and I am not the one twisting the meaning of John 1 to explain a mistaken theology.

 

[marks]

So many other verses point to the will and purpose of God that our salvation has been predestined for some and not others, that our faith is granted to us, and I am not the one twisting the meaning of John 1 to explain a mistaken theology.

I'm just showing you the grammar in the passage. No need to get personal.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well,if Holy Spirit is showing the errors in your opinions now that's a good thing. :)

Of course it is! We should all be welcoming the correction from the Holy Spirit. It's how we grow, and learn.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

As also here

1 PETER 1:2
KJ21
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you and peace be multiplied.
ASV
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
AMP
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father by the sanctifying work of the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace [that special sense of spiritual well-being] be yours in increasing abundance [as you walk closely with God].
AMPC
Who were chosen and foreknown by God the Father and consecrated (sanctified, made holy) by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and to be sprinkled with [His] blood: May grace (spiritual blessing) and peace be given you in increasing abundance [that spiritual peace to be realized in and through Christ, freedom from fears, agitating passions, and moral conflicts].
BRG
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
CSB
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient and to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
CEB
God the Father chose you because of what he knew beforehand. He chose you through the Holy Spirit’s work of making you holy and because of the faithful obedience and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. May God’s grace and peace be multiplied to you.
CJB
chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and set apart by the Spirit for obeying Yeshua the Messiah and for sprinkling with his blood: Grace and shalom be yours in full measure.
NIV
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
NIVUK
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
NKJV
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
NLV
You were chosen by God the Father long ago. He knew you were to become His children. You were set apart for holy living by the Holy Spirit. May you obey Jesus Christ and be made clean by His blood. May you be full of His loving-favor and peace.

 

[Ritajanice]

We should all be welcoming the correction from the Holy Spirit. It's how we grow, and learn

Amen!!

 

[BlessedPeace]

Of course it is! We should all be welcoming the correction from the Holy Spirit. It's how we grow, and learn.

Much love!

Good. Keep going you're doing well in moving away from the ichoose doctrine.