No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

[GracePeace]

Since there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), why is the sinning Christian "condemned" (Ro 14:23)?

My way of reconciling these is simply recognizing that not all remain in Christ: remaining requires obeying God's commands (i. believe, and ii. walk in love (Jn 15; 1 Jn 3:23,24)), but the believer in Ro 14:23 is sinning, so he's not remaining "in Christ", where there is "no condemnation".

Past failed attempts at reconciling the two have included:
1. Romans 14:23 doesn't refer to a sinning believer
2. Believers don't sin at all
3. Thinking Ro 8:1 needs reconciliation with Ro 14:23 proves you're not born of God.

What is your way of reconciling Ro 8:1 with Ro 14:23?

 

[GracePeace]

No takers!?
No one who delights in Scripture above their own thoughts!?

 

[Peterlag]

Since there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), why is the sinning Christian "condemned" (Ro 14:23)?

My way of reconciling these is simply recognizing that not all remain in Christ: remaining requires obeying God's commands (i. believe, and ii. walk in love (Jn 15; 1 Jn 3:23,24)), but the believer in Ro 14:23 is sinning, so he's not remaining "in Christ", where there is "no condemnation".

Past failed attempts at reconciling the two have included:
1. Romans 14:23 doesn't refer to a sinning believer
2. Believers don't sin at all
3. Thinking Ro 8:1 needs reconciliation with Ro 14:23 proves you're not born of God.

What is your way of reconciling Ro 8:1 with Ro 14:23?

I write a lot about this, but on this subject I'm not sure if the Christian can sin. I'm leaning left that they can. What I do believe I have correct is the Christian does not sin when they are in Christ. It's the "in him" that is not understood on this forum. Folks here think "in Christ" and "Christ in" you are the same. They are not. One is son-ship and the other is the walk. Where I loose everyone is how do we walk "in him." This I believe is a lost art because the churches teach walking in the spirit is obeying the Bible by being good and trying to get God to like you. Think about that for a good long minute. Has anybody except Jesus ever been able to accomplish that?

 

[GracePeace]

I write a lot about this, but on this subject I'm not sure if the Christian can sin. I'm leaning left that they can. What I do believe I have correct is the Christian does not sin when they are in Christ. It's the "in him" that is not understood on this forum. Folks here think "in Christ" and "Christ in" you are the same. They are not. One is son-ship and the other is the walk. Where I loose everyone is how do we walk "in him." This I believe is a lost art because the churches teach walking in the spirit is obeying the Bible by being good and trying to get God to like you. Think about that for a good long minute. Has anybody except Jesus ever been able to accomplish that?

There are people on this forum who abide in Christ. They know the God of Scripture, but not the Scripture of the God they know, thus they issue unhelpful explanations of Scripture. I can't live with myself twisting my brain into a pretzel like that.

 

[Peterlag]

There are people on this forum who abide in Christ. They know the God of Scripture, but not the Scripture of the God they know, thus they issue unhelpful explanations of Scripture. I can't live with myself twisting my brain into a pretzel like that.

I would bet you my car (Mercedes) that a good 99 percent of the folks on here do not abide in Christ. They are born again because they have Christ in them. They are not in Christ. And they do not even know there's a difference.

 

[GracePeace]

I would bet you my car (Mercedes) that a good 99 percent of the folks on here do not abide in Christ. They are born again because they have Christ in them. They are not in Christ. And they do not even know there's a difference.

I'm not saying "everyone on this forum abides in Christ", just that there are some who do, but, invariably, there're defects in their understanding of Scripture, so they're unhelpful.

 

[Peterlag]

I'm not saying "everyone on this forum abides in Christ", just that there are some who do, but, invariably, there're defects in their understanding of Scripture, so they're unhelpful.

We agree on there's all kinds of people on here. One sees a glow around the preacher's head only when he's preaching and she also sees a dark cloud with a tornado in front of the cloud only when another guy is preaching. She says this is a gift from God. I said it's probably the devil playing with her and either she or the staff removed me from that post.

 

[GracePeace]

We agree on there's all kinds of people on here.

It's good that you see the obvious.

 

[GracePeace]

I write a lot about this, but on this subject I'm not sure if the Christian can sin. I'm leaning left that they can. What I do believe I have correct is the Christian does not sin when they are in Christ. It's the "in him" that is not understood on this forum. Folks here think "in Christ" and "Christ in" you are the same. They are not. One is son-ship and the other is the walk. Where I loose everyone is how do we walk "in him." This I believe is a lost art because the churches teach walking in the spirit is obeying the Bible by being good and trying to get God to like you.

Of course Christians can sin. 1 Corinthians 10 says our salvation was like the salvation of the Jews from Egypt--THEREFORE, let us not sin, as they sinned, and bring God's wrath, which we had been saved from, down on ourselves, thus, fail to inherit the Promised Land ("fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on the eternal life to which you were called"--and the Israelites were "given", "gifted", the Promised Land, but, Scripture says, "I have given you this land. Go in and take possession..." (Deut 1:8)), which is walking in Christ, Who has "become a life giving spirit" (1 Co 15), and, being positioned rightly, continue to receive the Holy Spirit (1 Jn 3:23,24), because the Promise is "eternal life", but that life is only "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:10,11).

 

[Peterlag]

Of course Christians can sin. 1 Corinthians 10 says our salvation was like the salvation of the Jews from Egypt--THEREFORE, let us not sin, as they sinned, and bring God's wrath, which we had been saved from, down on ourselves, thus, fail to inherit the Promised Land ("fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on the eternal life to which you were called"--and the Israelites were "given", "gifted", the Promised Land, but, Scripture says, "I have given you this land. Go in and take possession..." (Deut 1:8)), which is walking in Christ, Who has "become a life giving spirit" (1 Co 15), and, being positioned rightly, continue to receive the Holy Spirit (1 Jn 3:23,24), because the Promise is "eternal life", but that life is only "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:10,11).

What verse in 1 Corinthians 10?

 

[GracePeace]

What verse in 1 Corinthians 10?

They were under the cloud = the Holy Spirit (the cloud was the cloud of the Presence Ex 34:5; Nu 12:5).
They were baptized into Moses = baptism into Christ
They ate and drank spiritual food and drink = the Lord's supper

Obviously, what preceded this was the Passover, when they were saved by the blood of lambs, which, Scripture says, corresponds to the blood of "Christ, our Passover Lamb"--"Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out." Jn 12:31, and the wrath of God was on Egypt, to judge its gods, and the firstborn, those born of Adam, would have had to die, but we were spared by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Peterlag]

They were under the cloud = the Holy Spirit (the cloud was the cloud of the Presence Ex 34:5; Nu 12:5).
They were baptized into Moses = baptism into Christ
They ate and drank spiritual food and drink = the Lord's supper

Obviously, what preceded this was the Passover, when they were saved by the blood of lambs, which, Scripture says, corresponds to the blood of "Christ, our Passover Lamb"--"Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out." Jn 12:31, and the wrath of God was on Egypt, to judge its gods, and the firstborn, those born of Adam, would have had to die, but we were spared by the blood of the Lamb.

You lost me. I have no idea what you are saying. Is there no verse in 1 Corinthians 10?

 

[GracePeace]

You lost me. I have no idea what you are saying. Is there no verse in 1 Corinthians 10?

1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

 

[Peterlag]

1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

I wonder what part of the Scripture Paul was referring to when he penned...

1 Corinthians 3:1-2
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

 

[Peterlag]

Whichever part, assuming he is referring to having spoken with them about Scripture during that previous meeting, it will have had no bearing on the fact that 1 Co 10 teaches our salvation was typed by that of the Jews from Egypt.

Whoever wants to be like Paul, as he follows Christ, should follow Paul's logic.

Are you saying you think Christ is not the Passover Lamb--that the Passover wasn't a type and shadow of Christ that has allusions to Christ and what Christ would and would not accomplish (ie, people, not understanding the plain teaching of Scripture, tend to stretch the definition of what Christ accomplished, wanting to include all the blessings that followed, all the way to inheriting the Promised Land)?

I don't follow Christ or any of the Old Testament Laws. I'm a Galatians guy...

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[GracePeace]

I wonder what part of the Scripture Paul was referring to when he penned...

1 Corinthians 3:1-2
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Whichever part, assuming he is referring to having spoken with them about Scripture during that previous meeting, it will have had no bearing on the fact that 1 Co 10 teaches our salvation was typed by that of the Jews from Egypt.

Whoever wants to be like Paul, as he follows Christ, should follow Paul's logic.

Are you saying you think Christ is not the Passover Lamb--that the Passover wasn't a type and shadow of Christ that has allusions to Christ and what Christ would and would not accomplish (ie, people, not understanding the plain teaching of Scripture, tend to stretch the definition of what Christ accomplished, wanting to include all the blessings that followed, all the way to inheriting the Promised Land)?

Even if, against reason, you wanted to argue that 1 Co 10 was part of that discussion he'd had with them in the past, during that time he had come to them in the past, if you want to say "1 Corinthians 10 is merely milk", it has no bearing on whether it is true.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't follow Christ or any of the Old Testament Laws. I'm a Galatians guy...

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians was written by Paul--same author of Corinthians.
No one said to follow the OT Laws--if you think I did, show me where I did.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't follow Christ or any of the Old Testament Laws. I'm a Galatians guy...

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

In fact, I've recently argued against the idea that believers are under the Law, so why would I ever have said that you are to follow the OT Laws? I wouldn't have--and didn't.

No Law : Under Grace

NO NEED for a "broader context" PUSHED into the Romans 3:25 verse. Paul meant exactly what he said, "for the remission of sins that are PAST". That means all sins prior to our first belief and baptism on Jesus Christ. Future sins still need to be repented of to Jesus Christ, asking Him...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Peterlag]

Galatians was written by Paul--same author of Corinthians.
No one said to follow the OT Laws--if you think I did, show me where I did.

Okay. I'm writing to a few different guys at the same time. Some are saying we still have Laws to follow. Others are saying we need to have a Sabbath. I'm saying I walk in Christ where there is no Law and no Sabbath.

 

[Peterlag]

In fact, I've recently argued against the idea that believers are under the Law, so why would I ever have said that you are to follow the OT Laws? I wouldn't have--and didn't.

No Law : Under Grace

NO NEED for a "broader context" PUSHED into the Romans 3:25 verse. Paul meant exactly what he said, "for the remission of sins that are PAST". That means all sins prior to our first belief and baptism on Jesus Christ. Future sins still need to be repented of to Jesus Christ, asking Him...

www.christianityboard.com

Oh you're the one with 1 Corinthians 10 and the rules there.