Blind Guides and Deluded Followers

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus had to die and be resurrected , after that we are then able to become Born Again.

It was because of Jesus death and resurrection that our spirit can become Born Of His Spirit.

That’s our life saving card back to God...which only Gods Living witness can do...The Holy Spirit, is the only one who can bring our spirit from death into newness Of Life.

Spirit gives birth to spirit....that is the Living/ supernatural / spiritual birth.

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.....

Absolutely! but these glorious facts have nothing to do with when the church was born.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You don't understand what I say, that's for sure. You are misrepresenting my view. When I said "I will build my church..." that was obviously before His death and resurrection. What I have been saying is that the OT saints were added to His church upon His death and resurrection. So, I have not said that He was already building His church before that. You either have poor reading comprehension skills or you make things up. I'm not sure which.

So show teh verse or verses that say that these saved people who were not part of the church prior to Pentecost were suddenly added to teh bride of christ.

If that is the case who are the guests of the bride at the wedding feast? for these are saved people. and sorry but guest and bride are not interchangeable, unless you show a verse that either explicitly or strongly implies they may be interchangeable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So show teh verse or verses that say that these saved people who were not part of the church prior to Pentecost were suddenly added to teh bride of christ.

If that is the case who are the guests of the bride at the wedding feast? for these are saved people. and sorry but guest and bride are not interchangeable, unless you show a verse that either explicitly or strongly implies they may be interchangeable.

I don't know what you're trying to say here. I assume you are referring to Jesus's parable in Matthew 22:1-14? The guests are not guests of the bride, they are guests of the king. And do you understand that it's not talking about an actual bride and actual wedding? It's a parable relating to God's call to people to accept His offer of salvation. It's not meant to be compared exactly to an actual wedding where there obviously is just one person who is the bride while the guests are those who witness the wedding between the bride and the bridegroom. In the case of the parable the guests with wedding garments on represent the bride of Christ.

Matthew 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, 2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, 3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. 4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. 5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: 6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. 7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Who are those that are chosen? The guests who accept the wedding invitation and have their wedding garments on, right? Who do those people represent? Christians, right? Are Christians not part of the bride of Christ? Of course we are. So, can you see how your understanding of who the guests are is flawed? The guests with wedding garments on are part of the bride while any guests who don't have their wedding garments on are not part of the bride and are cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

 

[Davidpt]

The guests are not guests of the bride, they are guests of the king.

I have to admit, I have been puzzled by this for decades now, as to how guests can also be the bride. And it was right there in front of my nose the entire time. Makes sense what you are saying here. Never even thought of it like that.

 

[Keraz]

Back to the OP:

The root cause of the inability of Christian people to agree on the truths of the Prophetic Word, is that God has hidden it from them.
Scriptures such as: Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, Deuteronomy 32:28-29, Matthew 11:25-26, _ confirm this.

My thoughts on why He does this, is because He wants what He has planned to be a surprise, a great test of our faith and a shock to the world.

However: Daniel 12:10b tells us that a few wise people will understand. They will have to be ones who clear their minds of mans teachings and who carefully study all of the Prophetic Word, making proper sense out of allegories and coming to a logical, sensible sequence of events.

Folks; we are in for a ride, a fantastic unfolding of Gods master plan for His creation! Be ready for it; but most of all; keep strong in our faith and trust the Lord for His protection through all that must happen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have to admit, I have been puzzled by this for decades now, as to how guests can also be the bride. And it was right there in front of my nose the entire time. Makes sense what you are saying here. Never even thought of it like that.

Thanks, David. I had some trouble understanding that for awhile, too. It definitely can be confusing without digging a bit deeper into it. Realizing that it's a parable and not reality helps. I mean, of course it's representing something in reality, but not a real wedding. Obviously, a bride is normally one person so making a direct comparison of what a normal wedding entails to the bride of Christ being wed to Christ is not even possible. We have to recognize that it's a parable and not meant to be taken literally in the sense of making a direct correlation between that and a normal wedding.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

However: Daniel 12:10b tells us that a few wise people will understand.

Where does it say that?

Daniel 12:10 (NIV): Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

Daniel 12:10 (KJV): Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Daniel 12:10 (ESV): Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

Daniel 12:10 (NASB): Many will be purged, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

I don't see that in any of these translations of the verse or in a few others I looked at. How does the verse read in your translation? Is the word "few" there?

In these translations, it indicates that many people will be purified and it says that none of the wicked understand and that the wise do understand. It says nothing about only a few wise people understanding. It does say many will be purified. Wouldn't those many people who are purified be the wise people who understand? It says there are many, not few. Without giving an exact number, of course. It could be few relative to the overall number of people, I suppose.

 

[Keraz]

Where does it say that?

Daniel 12:10b .....only the wise leaders will understand. REBible.
Only the wise leaders, that is: just a few people.

Shown to be correct by the proliferation of theories and doctrines abounding today.
Usually when I present the Prophetic Word on a forum, the response is such that even a normal understanding is far from most people.

The truths of what God plans, are hidden and incomprehensible to many. Basically; God sends a spirit of stupor, Isaiah 29:10, to anyone who chooses to believe false theories or doctrines without proper scriptural support. Belief in those wrong ideas, is not so bad, just the end times will come as a surprise to them.
It is people who teach those false theories, who will receive a more severe Judgment. James 3:1

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Who are those that are chosen? The guests who accept the wedding invitation and have their wedding garments on, right? Who do those people represent? Christians, right? Are Christians not part of the bride of Christ? Of course we are. So, can you see how your understanding of who the guests are is flawed? The guests with wedding garments on are part of the bride while any guests who don't have their wedding garments on are not part of the bride and are cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

No they represent the OT and tribulation saints. Only the church is the bride of Christ and all the other saints outside of the church age (Pentecost to the rapture) are the guests of the wedding supper at the onset of the millenial kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 12:10b .....only the wise leaders will understand. REBible.
Only the wise leaders, that is: just a few people.

And how do you know that? It doesn't say that it's just a few people. So, it's just your assumption.

Shown to be correct by the proliferation of theories and doctrines abounding today.

You can't just go by what you see on a forum like this. A forum like this attracts people who have views all to themselves and think they need to educate everyone else with their lone wolf doctrines. There's plenty of people who know the truth who don't post on Internet forums.

Usually when I present the Prophetic Word on a forum, the response is such that even a normal understanding is far from most people.

See above. You can't make a conclusion about all Christians just based on what you see on forums like this one. Most Christians do not post on forums.

The truths of what God plans, are hidden and incomprehensible to many.

Sure, but that doesn't mean only few understand. Of course, I don't even know for sure what you mean by few. How few exactly? Relatively few compared to all? Sure.

Basically; God sends a spirit of stupor, Isaiah 29:10, to anyone who chooses to believe false theories or doctrines without proper scriptural support. Belief in those wrong ideas, is not so bad, just the end times will come as a surprise to them.
It is people who teach those false theories, who will receive a more severe Judgment. James 3:1

I can agree with that. I just think you're overestimating how many people are like that because you're basing it on this forum, but I don't think this forum accurately represents how Christians are, overall.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No they represent the OT and tribulation saints.

Which question were you answering here? My first question? Are you saying you think the OT and tribulation saints represent the ones who are chosen when Jesus said "many are called, but few are chosen"?

Only the church is the bride of Christ and all the other saints outside of the church age (Pentecost to the rapture) are the guests of the wedding supper at the onset of the millenial kingdom.

You clearly have no understanding of Matthew 22:1-14 at all. That parable is about the gospel first being preached to the Jews who then rejected it and killed Jesus (represented in the parable by the son of the king) which resulted in their city being burned and destroyed, which is exactly what happened in 70 AD. Because of them rejecting the gospel (not all, but most) the gospel then went out to the Gentile nations which are represented in the parable by "the highways".

So, when Jesus said "many are called, but few are chosen", He was talking about many people being invited to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, but relatively few being chosen to be part of His bride/church. In the parable, the guests with their wedding garments on are believers who are part of the church and those without their wedding garments are unbelievers. Nowhere does scripture teach that God has multiple groups of people divided into OT saints, the church, tribulation saints and millennium saints. That is nonsense. We (believers from all-time) are all one in Christ Jesus in one body. That is what scripture teaches repeatedly.

 

[Keraz]

I can agree with that. I just think you're overestimating how many people are like that because you're basing it on this forum, but I don't think this forum accurately represents how Christians are, overall.

I realize that on the forums, I am talking with just a small group of people like me; with time on their hands and beliefs to promote.
I do know that there are many who read these threads and who never post, so my job is to refute the false and unbiblical theories and present the scriptural Truth.
Actually most Christians are careless about what God has told us of His plans for our future. Which i view as a sin; the sin of discounting a large portion of Gods Word.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Which question were you answering here? My first question? Are you saying you think the OT and tribulation saints represent the ones who are chosen when Jesus said "many are called, but few are chosen"?


You clearly have no understanding of Matthew 22:1-14 at all. That parable is about the gospel first being preached to the Jews who then rejected it and killed Jesus (represented in the parable by the son of the king) which resulted in their city being burned and destroyed, which is exactly what happened in 70 AD. Because of them rejecting the gospel (not all, but most) the gospel then went out to the Gentile nations which are represented in the parable by "the highways".

So, when Jesus said "many are called, but few are chosen", He was talking about many people being invited to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, but relatively few being chosen to be part of His bride/church. In the parable, the guests with their wedding garments on are believers who are part of the church and those without their wedding garments are unbelievers. Nowhere does scripture teach that God has multiple groups of people divided into OT saints, the church, tribulation saints and millennium saints. That is nonsense. We (believers from all-time) are all one in Christ Jesus in one body. That is what scripture teaches repeatedly.

So you are saying like the Watchtower that the bride of Christ is only a small portion of those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior?

NO I understand Matt.22 well enough.

So if the church are the wedding guests, who then is the bride of jesus? {Paul clearly taught that NT believers are the bride. See Ephesians and corinthians.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you are saying like the Watchtower that the bride of Christ is only a small portion of those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior?

No, I am not saying that. This is clearly a waste of time because you have trouble understanding anything that you read.

NO I understand Matt.22 well enough.

You clearly don't. You don't even recognize that the guests who accept the invitation and have their wedding garments on represent Christians who have accepted the gospel. Which means they are part of the bride since that's exactly who makes up the bride: Christians.

So if the church are the wedding guests, who then is the bride of jesus? {Paul clearly taught that NT believers are the bride. See Ephesians and corinthians.

LOL. Did you read anything I said? I already covered this. The wedding guests with their wedding garments on are part of the bride and the ones who don't are cast "into outer darkness". You are trying to compare Matthew 22:1-14 too much to a normal wedding where the guests are there to watch the bride get married. But, that involves only one person who is the bride. So, Jesus wasn't making an exact comparison in that way. The wedding guests with their wedding garments on are all part of the bride since the bride is obviously not just one person, as is the case in a normal wedding.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You clearly don't. You don't even recognize that the guests who accept the invitation and have their wedding garments on represent Christians who have accepted the gospel. Which means they are part of the bride since that's exactly who makes up the bride: Christians.

So to you Christians are both the bride and the guests? Which Christians get to be the bride and which Christians are just the guest?

And please don't tell me bride and guest are interchangeable for they are different words with different definitions.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL. Did you read anything I said? I already covered this. The wedding guests with their wedding garments on are part of the bride and the ones who don't are cast "into outer darkness". You are trying to compare Matthew 22:1-14 too much to a normal wedding where the guests are there to watch the bride get married. But, that involves only one person who is the bride. So, Jesus wasn't making an exact comparison in that way. The wedding guests with their wedding garments on are all part of the bride since the bride is obviously not just one person, as is the case in a normal wedding.

So show how one can be a guest of the bride and groom and be the bride at the same time.

See Jesus used words as people understand their meanings:

bride​

noun​

ˈbrīd

Synonyms of bride
: a woman just married or about to be married

guest​

1 of 2

noun​

ˈgest

Synonyms of guest
1
a
: a person entertained in one's house
b
: a person to whom hospitality is extended

I await you rshowing how these are the same.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So to you Christians are both the bride and the guests?

Do you see in the parable that it describes guests as having wedding garments on but also refers to one guest who does not?

Matthew 22:12 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless. 13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

So, you can see what happens to any guests who don't have their wedding clothes on, right? They are condemned. What about those who do have their wedding clothes on? They are not condemned, they are saved. That refers to Christians. Are Christians not part of the bride of Christ? Of course they are, right? So, yes, the guests with wedding clothes on are part of the bride.

Which Christians get to be the bride and which Christians are just the guest?

All Christians are the bride. They are the guests with wedding clothes on, as I explained above. The guests without wedding clothes on are not actually Christians. They must be people like what Jesus described here:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

And please don't tell me bride and guest are interchangeable for they are different words with different definitions.

There is are two kinds of guests there which it seems you somehow didn't notice before.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So show how one can be a guest of the bride and groom and be the bride at the same time.

See Jesus used words as people understand their meanings:

bride​

noun​

ˈbrīd

Synonyms of bride
: a woman just married or about to be married

guest​

1 of 2

noun​

ˈgest

Synonyms of guest
1
a
: a person entertained in one's house
b
: a person to whom hospitality is extended

I await you rshowing how these are the same.

Do you know that scripture must be spiritually discerned according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:9-16? What spiritual discernment are you using here? It's a parable. Why are you taking it so literally?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So, you can see what happens to any guests who don't have their wedding clothes on, right? They are condemned. What about those who do have their wedding clothes on? They are not condemned, they are saved. That refers to Christians. Are Christians not part of the bride of Christ? Of course they are, right? So, yes, the guests with wedding clothes on are part of the bride.

This is incorrect. The first Christians began with Pentecost and ends with the rapture. All saved outside of that time period, are saved, but they are not part of the bride. For the marriage supper, they are the guests. Even John the Baptist recognized this when he understood he was not part of the bride, but a friend of the groom. Those without the proper clothing are most likely the goats described in Matt. 25 though I cannot be sure.

All Christians are the bride. They are the guests with wedding clothes on, as I explained above. The guests without wedding clothes on are not actually Christians. They must be people like what Jesus described here:

Know one thinks of the bride as a gust that is foolish.

And I agree it may be Matt. 7 folk

There is are two kinds of guests there which it seems you somehow didn't notice before.

There is only one kind of guest. The one w/o a wedding garment is not a guest.

Do you know that scripture must be spiritually discerned according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:9-16? What spiritual discernment are you using here? It's a parable. Why are you taking it so literally?

So you believe normal words can be redefined. You are one of legions who "spiritually discern" by retranslating the words. Many disagree with you. Why should I accept you right and them wrong, or why should I not accept Jesus using words in their normal ubderstanding.

Who knows maybe Jesus did not physically rise from the dead as many of your other "spiritual discerners" write. Spiritual discernment means we have a heavenly view and must apply faith to the words. Not redefine words to fit our own biases.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Who knows maybe Jesus did not physically rise from the dead as many of your other "spiritual discerners" write. Spiritual discernment means we have a heavenly view and must apply faith to the words. Not redefine words to fit our own biases.

Act 2:29-32 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. (30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; (31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. (32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Anyway, quick study about approved garments and metaphors concerning them in the Bible:

Garments and clothing are rich metaphors in the Bible, symbolizing various spiritual themes. Here are some notable examples:

1. Garments of Salvation and Righteousness:
   • Isaiah 61:10 says, “I will rejoice greatly in the Lord, my soul will exult in my God; for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.” This verse portrays God’s gracious act of clothing us with salvation and righteousness.
   • White garments often symbolize purity and righteousness, while filthy rags represent our sinful nature and need for redemption1.
2. Spiritual Warfare and Transformation:
   • In Colossians 3:5-14, Paul uses clothing imagery to describe the transformation of believers. He encourages them to “put on” virtues like compassion, kindness, humility, and love. This metaphor emphasizes the process of spiritual renewal and sanctification2.
3. Social Status and Identity:
   • Clothing also reflects social status and identity. For instance, John the Baptist’s coarse camel hair clothing (Mark 1:6) conveyed his prophetic role and countercultural lifestyle. His attire symbolized humility and detachment from worldly wealth3.
4. Original Glory and Brokenness:
   • At creation, Adam and Eve were clothed in the reflected glory of God. However, sin led to their nakedness and shame (Genesis 3:7). The Bible traces this theme from the fall to redemption, where Christ’s righteousness becomes our covering4.

These metaphors remind us of God’s grace, transformation, and our identity as His redeemed children. [Copilot]