Precedent Faith

[Netchaplain]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved. It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book. It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved! Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn. If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

We see the buildup of concern for God the older we get, and things begin to come together more all the time that are related to God. Then He sends to you the one who will have the most effect on you about salvation, and before you know it—you realize you believe in God and Christ, and receive the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Then you find you have more concern for the Word of God and for being with other Christians. You’re reading and studying it as much as you can. Then comes the times of trials and temptations God sends to strengthen your faith by exercising it in trusting Him to “work” everything out for your “good” (Ro 8:28).

It is as you unceasingly grow in the Lord Jesus (Eph 4:15), that you will find your craft of life taking you onward and upward via the trials and temptations that continue to “increase” the strength and vitality of your “faith” (Luk 17:5). As you continue to “endure” the “hardness” of the on-and-off testing of your faith (2Ti 2:3), you see yourself in the most important light; that of being “conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

 

[Randy Kluth]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

I'm sorry if I come across as a critique artist--that is who I've become after years of messing up by following people and teaching blindly. I learned to critique everything. No matter how much I may differ from you in some less important areas, my heart is with your focus on genuine spiritual concerns. Sometimes our differences are so marginal as to not want to spend time on it, as if it should take up too much time.

Nevertheless, if you understand this you can probably handle some of the small differences I indulge in due to my own particular interests--no matter how irrelevant they may appear to be? I'm not sure but I personally think that the "Book of Life" is a book written from the beginning, before the Fall of Man, including the full number of humanity in its rolls. Everybody was called to live!

So when people are struck from the Book of Life it would've been at the point where Adam and Eve sinned, barring them from the Tree of Life. However, God's mercy immediately became evident in the hope that somehow this verdict would be overturned and Man would be able to live again.

And so, all of humanity was once again enrolled in the Book of Life based on our original calling to live in God's image. Today, those who are struck from the Book of Life are those who reject God's mercy and the atonement that Christ provided for those who wish to be kept in that book.

I'm a Predestinarian and believe that God originally planned a set number of people who were to remain in that book. However, God gives all of humanity the benefit of the doubt, enrolling everybody in that book until that willfully choose to not be in that book. They don't wish to believe in Christ and in his atonement such that they by default reject eternal life with God.

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved. It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book. It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved! Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn. If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

Yes, God is the one who planned us. It is He who can keep us. However, the importance of free will cannot be understated since none of this is real if real choices are not made. Not only so, but beyond Salvation there are many free will issues that determine the quality of our lives. And God is certainly concerned with social justice, as well as with eternal Salvation.

I must say that part of our "free will" is God's interest in determining how we choose to cooperate in giving Him glory. He is anxious to see how we choose to participate in His glory by working with Him and rejecting sin. When we give up the pagan world for His will He is glorified and we are glorified with Him. Without free will, this would be meaningless.

I'm not at all suggesting we disagree on this. I'm just adding my own personal thoughts on the subject, whether they are correct or not. Its just for anybody's consideration.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I do not think our prayers can save people. But i think it will promote opportunity for others to find God. Whether they stay with what opportunity comes their way depends on them and God personally. We can lead a horse to the water but not force it to drink. Leading is a direction of God and who offers the ability quench their thirst, but they are the ones who must be courageous enough and persistent enough to drink and keep drinking.

 

[Netchaplain]

I'm sorry if I come across as a critique artist--that is who I've become after years of messing up by following people and teaching blindly. I learned to critique everything. No matter how much I may differ from you in some less important areas, my heart is with your focus on genuine spiritual concerns. Sometimes our differences are so marginal as to not want to spend time on it, as if it should take up too much time.

For the past nearly 50 years in my Christian walk, your scenario here is pretty much the way I've learned truth--the Berean technique of critiquing everything by the Word of God.

I'm not sure but I personally think that the "Book of Life" is a book written from the beginning, before the Fall of Man, including the full number of humanity in its rolls. Everybody was called to live!

So when people are struck from the Book of Life it would've been at the point where Adam and Eve sinned, barring them from the Tree of Life.

The Book of Life is everyone who will definitely be saved, and their name cannot be stricken from it. That would infer that God is not omniscient (not saying that's what you meant).

 

[Randy Kluth]

For the past nearly 50 years in my Christian walk, your scenario here is pretty much the way I've learned truth--the Berean technique of critiquing everything by the Word of God.

The Book of Life is everyone who will definitely be saved, and their name cannot be stricken from it. That would infer that God is not omniscient (not saying that's what you meant).

I guess there is two ways to look at this, and I don't really know what the truth is--never have. I don't know what the determining basis would be for deciding this?

1) All people are in the Book of Life, saved and unsaved, to start with. As I said before, Adam and Eve began with life even though they had not embraced the Tree of Life yet. They got removed from the garden where the Tree of Life was. But they had not yet been removed from the Book of Life.

People may have sinned and will die, as all sinners do. But they still are given the promise of restoration to God and eternal life in the future, when Christ provides his atonement for their sins.

However, they are struck from the Book when they choose not to be saved or to leave what knowledge of salvation they have.

2) Or, the Book of Life is a book we're entered into only when we're saved. We cannot be removed from that Book once we're truly saved--otherwise we would not be truly saved at all.

When the Bible says that God will never remove the saved from the Book of Life it sounds as if some people can be removed. I think that may be true, but that those who are removed are removed because they have rejected salvation.

They therefore begin in the Book of Life, either because they've accepted the message of the Gospel without fully understanding it or because all people begin with the opportunity to live in Christ, once they accept him.

 

[Nancy]

God sure does blot some people out of the Book of Life:

"After God delivered Israel in a miraculous victory over Amalek, God instructed Moses to write the account in the book and to recite to Joshua that God would blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven (Exodus 17:14). After Israel sinned by worshiping the golden calf, Moses asked God to either forgive them or to blot out his own name from God’s book (Exodus 32:32). God responds by saying that only those who sinned He would blot out from His book (Exodus 32:33), and then He immediately acts on that promise. He punished those who did evil by smiting them (Exodus 32:34–35). This book, also mentioned in several other places (including Deuteronomy 29:20), is not called the book of life, but seems to simply reference the history that God was having Moses record. God asserts that people can be blotted out from under heaven and from that book (Exodus 32:33; Deuteronomy 29:20). In other words, the people blotted out or removed were killed. They were no longer living “under heaven.”

Got Questions

 

[Netchaplain]

All people are in the Book of Life, saved and unsaved, to start with.

I believe it's a bit difficult to understand God's omniscience, it is His most awesome attribute. Even prior to creation God already knew everyone who would choose His way. Since He knows everything He has already worked everything out for the good of the believers.

Concerning the beginning of mankind's place before God, it is against Him, and man must choose to be right with Him, which will be few, in comparison to those who will not choose Him (Mat 7:13, 14). If we numbered the saved and the lost, the saved would be "few" compared to the number of those who will not be saved!

 

[Netchaplain]

God sure does blot some people out of the Book of Life:

Hi, and appreciate your reply! Concerning this issue, we must realize the meaning of God's omniscience. He knew everyone who would choose to be right with Him before creation. It wouldn't seem sensible for Him to write a name in the Book and then remove it. I like the commentary Gill wrote on this.

John Gill: whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book; not that anyone that is really in the book of life is ever blotted out, or that anyone predestinated or ordained to eternal life ever perish: but some persons may think themselves, and they may seem to be written in that book, or to be among the number of God's elect, but are not, and turn out obstinate impenitent sinners, and live and die in impenitence and unbelief; when it will appear that their names were never written in it, which, is the same thing as to be blotted out of it, see Psalm 69:28. Now by this answer the Lord does not absolutely refuse the request of Moses with respect to the people, though he does with regard to himself, and the blotting his name out of his book; and it is plain, by what follows, he meant to show mercy to the people, since he bids Moses go and lead them on towards Canaan, and promises an angel to go before them."

Exodus 32 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Study Exodus 32 using John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning.

www.christianity.com

 

[Randy Kluth]

I believe it's a bit difficult to understand God's omniscience, it is His most awesome attribute. Even prior to creation God already knew everyone who would choose His way. Since He knows everything He has already worked everything out for the good of the believers.

Concerning the beginning of mankind's place before God, it is against Him, and man must choose to be right with Him, which will be few, in comparison to those who will not choose Him (Mat 7:13, 14). If we numbered the saved and the lost, the saved would be "few" compared to the number of those who will not be saved!

In my opinion, Jesus spoke of the "few" in connection with those who succeed in living for the Kingdom--not necessarily of those who would be saved for eternity. It was a matter of being connected with God's Kingdom on earth before Israel had fallen. Those who had gone apostate were to be cut off from Israel, according to the Law.

Jesus was stating what had been true historically, that Israel, though starting out as a full nation, ultimately had been reduced to small remnant of faithful with an apostate nation. So those who had gone apostate were to be cut off from God's Kingdom in Israel and were sent out into exile, whereas God kept the faithful remnant near Him even while they were in exile.

I do believe God knows the full number of His saved elect, but who among them are faithful is determined by us, who have free choice. God never coerces people to be lost, to choose separation from Himself.

The lost are lost because they choose to reject God's word that is held out to them by God. But they belong to a number that extended beyond the original number of elect people God had originally planned for. This resulted from Man's doing, who went beyond God's word and plans.

Yes, God's omniscience is difficult to comprehend. So we should guard how far we go in declaring facts based on that understanding. It's largely speculative. So we should go light on differences on such matters, in my opinion. So far as I can tell we agree on important elements of this nevertheless.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God sure does blot some people out of the Book of Life:

"After God delivered Israel in a miraculous victory over Amalek, God instructed Moses to write the account in the book and to recite to Joshua that God would blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven (Exodus 17:14). After Israel sinned by worshiping the golden calf, Moses asked God to either forgive them or to blot out his own name from God’s book (Exodus 32:32). God responds by saying that only those who sinned He would blot out from His book (Exodus 32:33), and then He immediately acts on that promise. He punished those who did evil by smiting them (Exodus 32:34–35). This book, also mentioned in several other places (including Deuteronomy 29:20), is not called the book of life, but seems to simply reference the history that God was having Moses record. God asserts that people can be blotted out from under heaven and from that book (Exodus 32:33; Deuteronomy 29:20). In other words, the people blotted out or removed were killed. They were no longer living “under heaven.”

Got Questions

Yes, they were removed from living in Israel by death. God ordered Israel to remove apostates from His Kingdom, which under the Law resided within the Kingdom of Israel. Apostates were to be removed from Israel and sent "packing."

God Himself sent Israel "packing" when He became frustrated with Israel's intransigence and addiction to sin. He sent the entire nation into exile to give the land "rest" from their sins. They were removed from the "Book of Israel," or from the rolls of Israeli membership in God's Kingdom. They were restored later, after they had "done their time" in exile.

The "Book of Life" may reference our membership in God's Kingdom as well, although it in the New Testament may refer to Salvation in God's heavenly Kingdom. But just like in Israel people can claim membership in that Kingdom by calling themselves a "Christian," and can be struck from that record by living inconsistently with what that membership calls for.

Living for Christ calls for more than just "claiming" membership, or "believing" in the Gospel message. It calls for living the Gospel.

As the Apostle John argues in 1 John 2, 3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Thank you for your many kind "likes." You truly have a "kindred spirit." I know we as Christians can never 100% agree on everything. But being "agreeable" is part and parcel of being a true Christian. And I know that's true of you. :)

 

[Netchaplain]

In my opinion, Jesus spoke of the "few" in connection with those who succeed in living for the Kingdom--not necessarily of those who would be saved for eternity.

It's my understanding that He was referring to the entirety of mankind in Matthew 7:13, 14, which seems obvious to me since the majority of mankind has always chose their own way; and it's not going to ever be any different in my opinion.

Thanks for the replies and God bless!

 

[Netchaplain]

It’s my understanding that individuals must decide for themselves to choose to be right with God. Can you imagine how many more would be saved if God caused everyone who was prayed for to be saved? I believe once one desires God enough to choose Him, He causes them to come to salvation; and He also causes them to “desire and perform of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13).