Yes, and I'm talking about that some of that continuity, which you are ignoring. Did you even read Romans 3? Sheesh.
I just cant listen to your preposterous and heretical nonsense any more.
Eternal Life is Now!
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I just cant listen to your preposterous and heretical nonsense any more.
In our country the northern people are called Inuit...or Dene ....not Eskimo. ;)
Am I hard on spoiled carnal people who refuse to get off their own self-interest? Is it OK to rebuke a self-seeker in order to wake them up to the truth? Or are we all to just sleep quietly into eternal judgment? What does the devil want us to do? What would Jesus do? No one likes to be awakened from a deep sleep. Was Lazarus happy to be raised from the dead? Maybe not right away...
I'm in it for the long game. Short term unpleasantness for eternal rejoicing.
Are you also just looking for temporal pleasures and quick ego boosts? Or are you really a seeker of God?
Have you read Romans 4 yet...do you understand it?...or is this a carnal attack on whatever is beyond you...as in..anything or anyone that is farther ahead than you needs to be put down to the same level you are at??? Very petty and immature indeed. The things I have to put up with...some people resist the truth and life as if it was an evil thing
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Certainly do agree we need to die to self and self-interest and selfishness and pride etc.......my flesh is never justified. But you don't need to wrest scripture and become a heretic to glean those truths.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Amen!
Colossians 2:6-7New King James Version (NKJV) As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
You seem to agree but you also seem to disagree. You want assurances before you understand the text you are reading...so then you are reading TO FIND that assurance, rather than reading to understand. You are divided in your intent.
A heretic divides the truth into what serves him/her. Any self-interested reading of the bible is by definition heretical...as it throws out the context in order to get to the bottom line...which is self-interest. there are no selfless heretics.
If you can move beyond a dogmatic ideological white-knuckled grasp of the bible...you will see that such a self-interested bent is condemned as carnal. All I do here is expose that. Why??? By seeing SO MUCH of it. I would rather confirm and encourage faith...but where is it?
Soooo.....I guess this means you don't intend to address Romans 3 at all. (You do know that God didn't put in those chapter numbers I hope.)
Just be careful sis.......the devil likes to dangle some truth in front of us as bait to lure us into his maze of untruths.
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Alright then, so while we're still waiting for Episkopos to address Romans 3........since he has already given us his take on Romans 4, think I'll just post this from Romans 4 which by itself clearly disproves his assertion that this chapter isn't about Christian believers:
Rom 4:13-24
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Anyone who isn't blinded by false doctrine can see that Paul is not in these chapters contrasting believers with unbelievers, he's addressing faith as opposed to Law, and as well, Jew and Gentile....saying that salvation by faith is open to not only Jews but Gentiles as well. (And if I'm reading these with any self interest at all, it's just to gratefully know that salvation by faith in Messiah/Christ is available to me too, since I'm a Gentile without the Law.)
Rom 4:13-24
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Anyone who isn't blinded by false doctrine can see that Paul is not in these chapters contrasting believers with unbelievers, he's addressing faith as opposed to Law, and as well, Jew and Gentile....saying that salvation by faith is open to not only Jews but Gentiles as well. (And if I'm reading these with any self interest at all, it's just to gratefully know that salvation by faith in Messiah/Christ is available to me too, since I'm a Gentile without the Law.)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You tell me, Why do you hate me so much?
What good is it if you are saved from this world. But still lost in your sins?
Your salvation is no salvation at all.. Your still dead in your sin if your not born again.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
interpretation.
We disagree with Epi so we are not growing
I rest my case..
ps. You have not corrected anyone that I have seen
Justifying ourselves.
This is your gospel Epi.. Youi attack those who preach justification in the cross.. and say they must justify themselves..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
oh so I do not have to be born again and recieve christ to become his child and walk in him?
Rita you should stop. Your so out to prove me wrong you are not seeing the words you are saying.. For someone who is supposed to be part of an encounter team, You should set a higher standard for yourself. I know I would.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I stand on the Living word of God..he cannot be muzzled.
You said....” ME” was Born Again...not biblical.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I do stand on the living word
I just proved it..
If your not born again, You are still dead in your sin. Period.
If you do nto believe this,, Well then my fears are just further shown to be coming true
I'm expecting a new pistol. If I dont have some unexpected expenses, I hope I'll have it by the end of this month.
Do we hope for things already obtained?
1Peter 1:3,
- blessed by the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope(expectation) by the ressurection of Jesus Christ from the dead
Titus 1:2,
- in hope(expectation) of eternal life, which God that cannot lie promised before the world began
Eternal life is now or hoped for in the future? What sayeth the Scriptures?
Do we hope for things already obtained?
1Peter 1:3,
- blessed by the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope(expectation) by the ressurection of Jesus Christ from the dead
Titus 1:2,
- in hope(expectation) of eternal life, which God that cannot lie promised before the world began
Eternal life is now or hoped for in the future? What sayeth the Scriptures?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
“ME” is not biblical.
Only the Spirit can prove Gods Living word as truth...he is our witness that indwells our spirit...
He is the one who bears the truth of Gods word to our spirit...no human can do any of that.
Jesus Spirit Lives And His Spirit indwells my spirit.
Praise His Holy Name!!
Praise His Holy Name!!
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. New Living Translation Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. English Standard Version For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, Berean Standard Bible For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, Berean Literal Bible because Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for theunrighteous, so that He might bring you to God, having been put to death indeed in the flesh, but having been made alive in thespirit, |
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Paul didn't expect that his writings would be seen as scripture...of course there is a difference between the prophetic nature of the OT and the testimonial revelations of the NT.
But sure..I'll lay out Romans 3. It is a little longer...but bear with me...;)
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
IOW...the truth although first revealed to them, doesn't stop at them...it's not a matter of WHO believes the truth.The truth is truth in its own right.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
This is an important idea. It doesn't matter what we do for God if our motives aren't pure. The truth is a double-edged sword...it can condemn us even as we preach the truth...or an aspect of it. So often we will preach one half of the truth and be condemned by the other half that we are transgressing against. For the Jews...it is preaching righteousness at the expense of true holiness. For we Christians it is preaching holiness at the expense of righteousness (where even the holiness we preach is misunderstood). God will judge.
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Many misunderstand the grace of God...which is the POWER of God to fulfill His commandments. NOT a way of escaping judgment or responsibility for our sins. The Holy Spirit makes us MORE responsible not less so.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
We are all entraped by the sin nature of the flesh...until we are freed by the power of the cross. We all need a Saviour.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
This is the condition of all men....including born again believers who have been saved from the world...but not yet saved from the power of the flesh. No one can manufacture the kind of fear that only actual faith in God can produce. A fool rages and is confident.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
No one can declare himself righteous by what he does...or what he believes. In God's sight no living person can justify themselves. Only God can justify...not a bible or a bible reader.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
The upward calling of Christ is part of the law...walking in the light of the Lord in His power and covering righteousness. God justifies both on a human level AND on a holy level. Be perfect as God is perfect.
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
God is not a respecter of persons. The faith OF Christ translates people into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. That's how we know we have been justified...by walking in an eternal life and power.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
No one is ready for holiness in their own strength.
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Being IN Christ we walk as Jesus walked. In Him is no sin. The justification that is in Christ is holy...without any spot or wrinkle of sin.
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
God is merciful...on 2 levels...for the righteous AND for those who enter into Christ in both forgiveness AND atonement (cleansing). Jesus takes away the sins of the world. What people here will mix up is that it is not by faith in His blood.....as if we have to believe in His blood. But rather "in His blood (life)" by faith. Here we see that the LIFE of Jesus takes away our sins.
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in (from) Jesus.
If we stand in Christ and believe FROM Christ (in HIS faith) then we have the kind of justification that was fully outside the followers of the law who walked in their own strength.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
The law of faith takes us (flow chart) to heaven. We begin with a human faith....that pays the price (ALL) to win Christ. From there we are given the faith to be translated into the higher walk in holiness.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Definitely one of the ways that God justifies with. This way has no limit. Faith can do the impossible. Works can only do what is possible. Faith is about what God can do. Works about what WE can do. If we walk in His power than our God- empowered works will be as gold and silver...bringing a reward based on a higher level of righteousness.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The gospel is to all...regardless of human status.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
This is to show that faith fulfills the law. Human faith in a PHYSICAL application of the law (like the Jews do). And the faith OF Christ that fulfills the spiritual requirements of the law (No sin at all..not even in thought or in the subconscious....just as pure as God). The law of God is spiritual...at the standard of perfection in holiness. Without Christ to empower us....we can only ever hope to not break the PHYSICAL requirements of the law. (By the fear of the Lord)
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As in..look I'm not reading this for self-interest.....but hey look, my self-interest is satisfied anyway! Isn't that special?!?
The flesh can't help itself...
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Not referring to Lizbeth here.
Just talking about self.
Epi, our self is obsessed with it self...it needs to be brought under control by the Spirit.
Nothing Biblical, just my thoughts.xx
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