Soul Sleep yes or no?

[Hobie]

None of that refutes anything that I posted

But it doesn't help either..

 

[The Learner]

What do you mean what did I post? You referenced me. Why?

memory problems brother, friend

 

[The Learner]

Are we playing the denial game to avoid the points of others?

 

[Hobie]

For those who are in Christ Jesus, the Bible stipulates: "To be absent from the body is to present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8.
That is, there is a separation of body and spirit where the spirit goes to heaven to be with the Lord. while his body returns to the dust to await resurrection on the last day.

On the other hand, those NOT in Christ Jesus, their body, soul, and spirit will return to the dust. We read in Psalms 115:16-18
16 The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
17 The dead (spiritually dead) praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.

To God Be The Glory

That is putting your pre-conceived idea into the text, it means what says, and repeats it in many other text.

 

[Hobie]

That might be the way you explain it....but how does the Bible explain it? I though it was the Bible that gave us our beliefs?
Have I not provided enough scripture for you? Do you need more? I can understand why it is hard to get your head around what the Bible says....but you have to understand that immortality of the soul is not a Bible teaching. It is just a perpetuation of the lie satan told the woman in Eden.

It was the sudden death of my father that got me searching for the truth about what happens to the dead....
I figured that if he had gone to heaven, how could he be happy when we were miserable, missing him...so how could he not be missing us? How can heaven be a happy place if people are snatched away from the people they love?
It felt so wrong that the platitudes offered by my church just made me angry. Where was the Bible? No one mentioned what the Bible had to say about it. I wanted to know why death felt so bad when it was supposed to be a happy time for the person who had left.

If you have lost anyone close in death, sat with them when they breathed their last breath, you understand the finality of death.
The comfort comes in knowing that death is not as final as it appears.....resurrection is assured because Jesus' sacrifice has rescued them from being held prisoner by it. Nothing can harm them...they are in the safest place imaginable.

Well you have good company, if one really looks on the belief of soul-sleep we find this view has been held throughout church history. The early church held to this at the time of the apostles as it was the original Christian teaching and later theological arguments based on this belief were also used to contest the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory and masses for the dead. The Ana-Baptists believed in this in the 1500's. Martin Luther has many quotes that point to his belief in it and was among one of the more notable advocates of conditional immortality. On October 31, 1517, Luther posted his famous Theses on the church door in Wittenberg.

In his 1520 published Defence of 41 of his propositions, Luther cited the pope's immortality declaration, as among "those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals" (proposition 27). In the twenty-seventh proposition of his Defence Luther said: " However, I permit the Pope to establish articles of faith for himself and for his own faithful-- such are: That the bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament; that the essence of God neither generates nor is generated; that the soul is the substantial form of the human body that he [the pope] is emperor of the world and king of heaven, and earthly god; that the soul is immortal; and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals--in order that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such also his faithful, and such his church, and that the lips may have suitable lettuce and the lid may be worthy of the dish." Martin Luther, Assertio Omnium Articulorum M. Lutheri per Bullam Leonis X. Novissimam Damnatorum (Assertion of all the articles of M. Luther condemned by the latest Bull of Leo X), article 27, Weimar edition of Luther's Works, vol. 7, pp. 131, 132 (a point-by-point exposition of his position, written Dec. 1, 1520, in response to requests for a fuller treatment than that given in his Adversus execrabilem Antichristi Bullam, and Wider die Bulle des Endchrists).

 

[Hobie]

Lets look at how the word is used in the Bible:

In Jeremiah 31:26 After this I awoke and looked around, and my sleep was sweet to me. Also in Daniel 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
The word used here is shenah corresponding to 8142, now compare:

Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The word for sleep here is not the same as one sleeping in everyday use. yashen ( from 3462; sleepy: KJV-- asleep, (one out of) sleep slept.

What does sleep mean in this context? The Bible uses this term when speaking of death. The primary verses we find showing the dead have no thoughts or consciousness are:
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, "For the living know they shall die: but the dead know not any thing," and Ecclesiastes 12:7, "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." Also Psalm 146:4, "His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish". Or Psalm 115:17, "The dead do not praise the Lord, nor any who go down into silence" or Psalm 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of Thee; in the grave who shall give Thee thanks? And of course, there is Ezekiel 18:4, "the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

We find much text that give us context on this..
Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?"

1 Samuel 3:3 Samuel was laid down to SLEEP;

1 Samuel 28:3 Now SAMUEL was DEAD, and all Israel had lamented him, and BURIED HIM in RAMAH,

Psalm 104:29
Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

In the book of Job it is stated: "But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he?... So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep... If a man dies, shall he live again?" (Job 14:10,12,14a NKJV)

and also what is happening when we are dead:

Deuteronomy 31:16 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12 - And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

1 Kings 1:21 - Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Job 7:21 - And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Psalms 13:3 - Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Psalms 30:9 "What will you gain from my death? What profit from my going to the grave? Are dead people able to praise you? Can they proclaim your unfailing goodness?

Psalms 76:6 - At thy rebuke, O God of Jacob, both the chariot and horse are cast into a dead sleep.

Isaiah 57:2 Those who live good lives find peace and rest in death.

Jeremiah 51:39 - In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 51:57 - And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt....

Clearly its what we are being given from the scriptures, not some deviation or private interpretation...

 

[Hobie]

And even in the New Testament we see more of the same:
Matthew 9:24 - He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Mark 5:39 - And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

Luke 8:52 - And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

John 11:11-14 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Act 2:31-32 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 7:59 -60 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 13:36 - For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Ephesians 5:14 - Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

1 Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 - For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

2 Peter 3:4 - And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

And when we will come out of the grave.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Acts 4:2
Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

And what Christ himself tells us will happen to those who have died, the resurrection of the just, and the resurrection of damnation for the wicked.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

These text clearly show the soul does not continue on after death or the dead do not float in spirit bodies and dwell in Gods presence. The focus clearly is on resurrection at the Second Coming to eternal life for the believer (and to destruction for the unbeliever).

 

[Hobie]

And we see clearly is laid out in 1 Corinthians as the sleeping saints are raised at the resurrection...
1 Corinthians 15

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.....

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Hobie]

Now lets look at what Paul says here in 1 Corinthians 15..

1 Corinthians 15:12-23
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Here Paul is saying that resurrection from the dead is assured to all Christians, because Christ was the "firstfruits" of those asleep in death, and His resurrection from the dead is the guarantee that He is the one whose voice will be heard on the Day of Resurrection and Judgment, calling them out of their graves.

We see that death is clearly spoken of as a 'sleep' in verse 6, "6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.". Some of the witnesses to Christ's bodily resurrection had, by the time Paul wrote that letter, died or "fallen asleep". They had died and lay in the grave rotting or already dust, and were for all intents and purposes what one would find as to someone that was asleep in terms of awareness.

Paul then details the order of the resurrection and goes back to Christ, raised as the "firstfruits" of a bodily resurrection. Now, Christ himself raised Lazarus from the grave after dying days earlier, the key to understanding here is the "firstfruits". Looking at the Old Testament on "firstfruits" of the harvest, we see the meaning, which was a sheaf of ripe grain, ready before all the rest of the grain had ripened, was gathered and waved as an offering to God. A set number of days later, the harvest proper took place. Exodus 23:16

Here we see Christ was that "firstfruits", and after Christ will come those who are the "dead in Christ" at his coming, those "sleeping" in their graves.

 

[Jethro2]

Clearly its what we are being given from the scriptures, not some deviation or private interpretation...

Well. Scripture may be quoted.

Was quote "soul sleep" or even "soul sleeping" found in Scripture ?

And even in the New Testament we see more of the same:

More Scripture, but still no "soul sleep" nor "soul sleeping".

And we see clearly is laid out in 1 Corinthians as the sleeping saints are raised at the resurrection...
1 Corinthians 15

Okay, good. This is better.....

 

[The Learner]

this thread is putting me to sleep

 

[Hobie]

Well. Scripture may be quoted.

Was quote "soul sleep" or even "soul sleeping" found in Scripture ?

More Scripture, but still no "soul sleep" nor "soul sleeping".

Okay, good. This is better.....

Everywhere it says the dead will sleep or lay sleeping in the dust or grave..

 

[Hobie]

Here is something I came across on Martin Luther..
However, the best known advocate of soul sleep was Martin Luther (1483–1546). [Froom 1966, p. 74: “Archdeacon Blackburne's incisive summation of Luther's position was this: ‘Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then he made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and Saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment of his life.]

In writing on Ecclesiastes, Luther says:

Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute. [Martin Luther, "An Exposition of Salomon's Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher" (translation 1573)]

Elsewhere Luther states: As soon as thy eyes have closed shalt thou be woken, a thousand years shall be as if thou hadst slept but a little half hour. Just as at night we hear the clock strike and know not how long we have slept, so too, and how much more, are in death a thousand years soon past. Before a man should turn round, he is already a fair angel.[Luther, Martin, "WA", 37.191.]

Here is more from my buddy Amo of others...
The 17th Century
Richard or Robert Overton, scholar, soldier and pamphletier, published in 1643, Man's Mortality, in which the title page reads:

"A Treatise wherein `T is proved, both theologically and Philosophically. That as whole man sinned, so whole man died; contrary to the common distinction of Soul and Body: And that the present going of the Soul into heaven or hell, is a meer Fiction. And that at the Resurrection is the beginning of our immortality; and then actual Condemnation and Salvation, and not before." [R. Overton, Man's Mortality, 1643]

John Milton (1608-1674), was a well known or even the greatest of the sacred poets. Milton taught the totally unconscious sleep of man in death until the coming of Christ and resurrection, and wrote: "Inasmuch as the whole man uniformly said to consist of body, and soul (whatever may be the distinct provinces of these divisions), I will show, that in death, first, the whole man, and
secondly, each component part,
suffers privation of life. ... The grave is the common guardian of all till the day of judgment." [John Milton, Treatise of Christian Doctrine, Vol. 1, ch. 13.]

George Wither (1588-1667), contended for conditional immortality in which the soul is asleep in death.[Produced an English translation of Nemesius, early Bishop of Emesa, 1636.]

John Jackson (1686-1763), was the Rector of Rossington school and wrote several titles in which he confutes and condemns the doctrine of eternal torment.[John Jackson, A Dissertation on Matter and Spirit, 1735.;]

John Canne (1590-1667) was a pastor of the Broadmead Baptist Church in Bristol and printer of R. Overton's work and held essentially the same view as Overton.[John Canne, Reference Bible, 1682.]

Archbishop John Tillotson (1630-1694) of Canterbury states
"I do not find that the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is anywhere expressly delivered in Scripture, but taken for granted." [John Tillotson, Works, 1683.]

Dr. Isaac Barrow (1630-1677), professor of Greek at Cambridge University maintained that eternal life is conditional and believed in the final destruction of the wicked.[Isaac Barrow, `Duration of Future Punishment' in Works.]

Dr. William Coward (1657-1725) was a practicing physician in London. He states
"Second thoughts concerning the human soul, demonstrating the notion of human soul, as believed to be a Spiritual and Immortal Substance, united to a Human Body, to be plain Heathenish Invention, and not Consonant to the principles of Philosophy, Reason or Religion." [Wm. Coward, A Survey of the Search After Souls, ca. 1702.]

Henry Layton (1670-1706) was a member of the Anglican Faith and the author of 12 books on conditionalism in which he contends that
"... during life, we live and move in Christ; and when we die we rest and sleep in Him, in expectation of being raised at His second coming. [Henry Layton, Arguments and Replies, in dispute concerning the nature of the soul, 1703]

Joseph Nicol Scott M.D. (1703-1769) was also a minister who assisted his father, Thomas Scott and maintained that
"... life is for the righteous only, with destruction for the wicked." [Joseph N. Scott, Sermons Preached in Defence of All Religion, 1743.]

Bishop Edmund Law (1703-1787) was the master of St. Peter's College, archdeacon of Staffordshire and bishop of Carlisle. He challenged the doctrine of a conscious intermediate state; held death to be a sleep, a negation of all life, thought, or action - a state of rest, silence and oblivion. [Edmund Law, Considerations on ... the Theory of Religion, 1749.' The State of the Dead, 1765, See Appendix.]

Dr. William Whiston (1667-1752) was a Baptist theologian and professor of mathematics at Cambridge University and
"... denied the doctrine of eternal torment and held that the wicked would be totally destroyed." [William Whiston, The Eternity of Hell-Torments Considered, 1740.]

Dr. William Thomson (1819-1890) was the archbishop of York. He wrote:
"Life to the godles must be the beginning of destruction since nothing but God and that which pleases Him can permanently exist." [William Thomson, The Thought of Death, Bampton Lecture, 1862.]

Dr. Edward White (1819-1887) was a Congregationalist pastor at St. Paul's Chapel and chairman of the Congregational Union. For over forty years he was a leading advocate of conditional immortality [Edward White, Life in Christ, 1846]. In 1883 he made it known:
"I steadfastly maintain, after 40 years of study of the matter, that it is the notion of the infliction of a torment in body and soul that shall be absolutely endless, which alone gives a foot of standing ground to Ingersol in America, or Bradlaugh in England. I believe more firmly than ever that it is a doctrine as contrary to every line of the Bible as it is contrary to every moral instinct of humanity." [Introduction to J. H. Pettingell's The Unspeakable Gift, 1884, p. 22.]

In the following year he adds:
"The Old Testament is consistent throughout with the belief of eternal life of the servants of God, and of the eternal destruction of the wicked. And it is consistent, when taken in its simple sense with no other belief ..."
"The Gospels and Epistles with equal pertinacity adhere almost uniformly to language respecting the doom of the unsaved which taken in its simple sense, teaches, as does the Old Testament, that they shall die, perish, be destroyed, not see life, but suffer destruction, everlasting destruction, `destruction,' says Christ, `of body and soul in Gehenna.' [J.H. Pettingell, Homiletic Monthly (England), march, 1885.]

Archbishop Richard Whately (1787-1863) was archbishop of Dublin, Ireland and a professor at Oxford and principal. He taught the final destruction of the wicked and believed "The wicked are never spoken of as being kept alive, but as forfeiting life." [ Richard Whitley, A View of the Scriptural Revelations Concerning a Future State.]

Dr. Robert W. Dale (1829-1895) was a Congregationalist pastor of Carr's Lane Church in Birmingham. He was editor of The Congregationalist magazine; chairman of the `Congregational Union of England and Wales'; and president of the `First International Council of Congregational Churches in 1891'. He announced his acceptance of conditionalism in a paper before the Congregational Union of 1874.
"Eternal life, as I believe, is the inheritance of those who are in Christ. Those who are not in Him will die the Second Death from which there will be no resurrection ...
I am not conscious that they [the positions of Conditionalism] have at all impaired the authority in my teaching of any of the great central doctrines of the Christian faith.
The doctrine of the Trinity remains untouched; and
the doctrine of the incarnation, and
the doctrine of the atonement in its evangelical sense, and
the doctrine of justification by faith, and
the doctrine of judgment by works, and
the doctrine of regeneration
have received, I believe, from these conclusions a new and intenser illustration." [Freer's `Edward White', His Life and Work, 1902, pp. 354-355.]

Frederick W. Farrar (1831-1903) was the canon of Westminster Abbey and the dean of Canterbury. he denounced the
"... dogma of endless, conscious suffering and could not find a single text in all Scripture that, when fairly interpreted, teaches the common views about endless torment." [ Frederick Farrar, Eternal Hope, 1877]

William E. Gladstone (1809-1898) was a British Prime Minister and Theologian. In a searching criticism of Bishop Butler's Analogy and its defense of innate immortality, Gladstone contended:
"[It is only] from the time of Origen that we are to regard the idea of natural, as opposed to that of Christian, immortality as beginning to gain a firm foothold in the Christian Church." [William E. Gladstone, Studies Subsidiary to the Works of Bishop Butler, (1896 ed.), p. 184.]

So its a belief that has been held by many Christian scholars and ministers and preachers since the Reformation and in the Early Church before the Greek pagan beliefs entered in..

 

[Hobie]

and even more...
Dr. R. F. Weymouth (1822-1902) was the headmaster of Mill Hill School and translator of New Testament in Modern Speech. He said:
"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to destroy or destruction, are explained to mean `maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.' To translate black as white is nothing to this." [Edward White in Life in Christ, (1878), p. 365.]

In his book in a note on 1.Corinthians 15:18 he says:
"By `perish' the Apostle here apparently means `pass out of existence'."

On Hebrews 9:28 we read:
"The use in the N.T. of such words as `death', `destruction', `fire', `perish', to describe Future Retribution, point to the likelihood of fearful anguish, followed by extinction of being, as the doom which awaits those who by persistent rejection of the Saviour prove themselves utterly, and therefore irremediably bad." {Ibid.,]
On Revelation 14:11:
"There is nothing in this verse that necessarily implies an eternity of suffering. In a similar way the word `punishment' or `correction' in Matthew 25:46 gives itself no indication of time."
On Revelation 20:10:
"The Lake of fire implying awful pain and complete, irremediable ruin and destruction." [Ibid.,]

Dr. Lyman Abbott (1835-1922) was a Congregationlist pastor and editor of Christian Union and The Outlook. He wrote:
"Outside of the walls of Jerusalem, in the valley of Gehenna, was kept perpetually burning a fire, on which the offal of the city was thrown to be destroyed. This is the hell fire of the New Testament. Christ warns his auditors that persistence in sin will make them offal to be cast out from the holy city, to be destroyed. The worm that dieth not was the worm devouring the carcasses, and is equally clearly a symbol not of torture but of destruction." [Lyman Abbott, That Unknown Country, 1889.]

"The notion that the final punishment of sin is continuance in sin and suffering is also based in part on, what seems to me, a false philosophy of man. This philosophy is that man is by nature immortal. The conviction has grown on me, that according to the teaching of both of science and Scripture, man is by nature an animal, and like all other animals mortal; that immortality belongs only to the spiritual life; and that spiritual life is possible only in communion and contact with God; that, in short, immortality was not conferred upon the race in creation whether it would or not, but is conferred in redemption, upon all those of the race who choose life and immortality through Jesus Christ our Lord." [Ibid., ]

Dr. Edward Beecher (1803-1895) was a Congregationalist theologian and president of Illinois College. He stated:
"If [the Bible] does not recognize, nay, it expressly denies the natural and inherent immortality of the soul. It assures us that God only hath immortality. (1.Timothy 6:16). By this we understand that He has immortality in the highest sense - that is, inherent immortality. All existence besides Himself He created, and He upholds. Men are not, as Plato taught, self-existent, eternal beings, immortal in their very nature. ... There is no inherent immortality of the soul as such. What God created He sustains in being, and can annihilate at will." [Edward Beecher, Doctrine of Scriptural Retribution, p. 58.]

 

[The Learner]

Here is something I came across on Martin Luther..
However, the best known advocate of soul sleep was Martin Luther (1483–1546). [Froom 1966, p. 74: “Archdeacon Blackburne's incisive summation of Luther's position was this: ‘Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then he made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and Saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment of his life.]

In writing on Ecclesiastes, Luther says:

Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute. [Martin Luther, "An Exposition of Salomon's Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher" (translation 1573)]

Elsewhere Luther states: As soon as thy eyes have closed shalt thou be woken, a thousand years shall be as if thou hadst slept but a little half hour. Just as at night we hear the clock strike and know not how long we have slept, so too, and how much more, are in death a thousand years soon past. Before a man should turn round, he is already a fair angel.[Luther, Martin, "WA", 37.191.]

Here is more from my buddy Amo of others...
The 17th Century
Richard or Robert Overton, scholar, soldier and pamphletier, published in 1643, Man's Mortality, in which the title page reads:

"A Treatise wherein `T is proved, both theologically and Philosophically. That as whole man sinned, so whole man died; contrary to the common distinction of Soul and Body: And that the present going of the Soul into heaven or hell, is a meer Fiction. And that at the Resurrection is the beginning of our immortality; and then actual Condemnation and Salvation, and not before." [R. Overton, Man's Mortality, 1643]

John Milton (1608-1674), was a well known or even the greatest of the sacred poets. Milton taught the totally unconscious sleep of man in death until the coming of Christ and resurrection, and wrote: "Inasmuch as the whole man uniformly said to consist of body, and soul (whatever may be the distinct provinces of these divisions), I will show, that in death, first, the whole man, and
secondly, each component part,
suffers privation of life. ... The grave is the common guardian of all till the day of judgment." [John Milton, Treatise of Christian Doctrine, Vol. 1, ch. 13.]

George Wither (1588-1667), contended for conditional immortality in which the soul is asleep in death.[Produced an English translation of Nemesius, early Bishop of Emesa, 1636.]

John Jackson (1686-1763), was the Rector of Rossington school and wrote several titles in which he confutes and condemns the doctrine of eternal torment.[John Jackson, A Dissertation on Matter and Spirit, 1735.;]

John Canne (1590-1667) was a pastor of the Broadmead Baptist Church in Bristol and printer of R. Overton's work and held essentially the same view as Overton.[John Canne, Reference Bible, 1682.]

Archbishop John Tillotson (1630-1694) of Canterbury states
"I do not find that the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is anywhere expressly delivered in Scripture, but taken for granted." [John Tillotson, Works, 1683.]

Dr. Isaac Barrow (1630-1677), professor of Greek at Cambridge University maintained that eternal life is conditional and believed in the final destruction of the wicked.[Isaac Barrow, `Duration of Future Punishment' in Works.]

Dr. William Coward (1657-1725) was a practicing physician in London. He states
"Second thoughts concerning the human soul, demonstrating the notion of human soul, as believed to be a Spiritual and Immortal Substance, united to a Human Body, to be plain Heathenish Invention, and not Consonant to the principles of Philosophy, Reason or Religion." [Wm. Coward, A Survey of the Search After Souls, ca. 1702.]

Henry Layton (1670-1706) was a member of the Anglican Faith and the author of 12 books on conditionalism in which he contends that
"... during life, we live and move in Christ; and when we die we rest and sleep in Him, in expectation of being raised at His second coming. [Henry Layton, Arguments and Replies, in dispute concerning the nature of the soul, 1703]

Joseph Nicol Scott M.D. (1703-1769) was also a minister who assisted his father, Thomas Scott and maintained that
"... life is for the righteous only, with destruction for the wicked." [Joseph N. Scott, Sermons Preached in Defence of All Religion, 1743.]

Bishop Edmund Law (1703-1787) was the master of St. Peter's College, archdeacon of Staffordshire and bishop of Carlisle. He challenged the doctrine of a conscious intermediate state; held death to be a sleep, a negation of all life, thought, or action - a state of rest, silence and oblivion. [Edmund Law, Considerations on ... the Theory of Religion, 1749.' The State of the Dead, 1765, See Appendix.]

Dr. William Whiston (1667-1752) was a Baptist theologian and professor of mathematics at Cambridge University and
"... denied the doctrine of eternal torment and held that the wicked would be totally destroyed." [William Whiston, The Eternity of Hell-Torments Considered, 1740.]

Dr. William Thomson (1819-1890) was the archbishop of York. He wrote:
"Life to the godles must be the beginning of destruction since nothing but God and that which pleases Him can permanently exist." [William Thomson, The Thought of Death, Bampton Lecture, 1862.]

Dr. Edward White (1819-1887) was a Congregationalist pastor at St. Paul's Chapel and chairman of the Congregational Union. For over forty years he was a leading advocate of conditional immortality [Edward White, Life in Christ, 1846]. In 1883 he made it known:
"I steadfastly maintain, after 40 years of study of the matter, that it is the notion of the infliction of a torment in body and soul that shall be absolutely endless, which alone gives a foot of standing ground to Ingersol in America, or Bradlaugh in England. I believe more firmly than ever that it is a doctrine as contrary to every line of the Bible as it is contrary to every moral instinct of humanity." [Introduction to J. H. Pettingell's The Unspeakable Gift, 1884, p. 22.]

In the following year he adds:
"The Old Testament is consistent throughout with the belief of eternal life of the servants of God, and of the eternal destruction of the wicked. And it is consistent, when taken in its simple sense with no other belief ..."
"The Gospels and Epistles with equal pertinacity adhere almost uniformly to language respecting the doom of the unsaved which taken in its simple sense, teaches, as does the Old Testament, that they shall die, perish, be destroyed, not see life, but suffer destruction, everlasting destruction, `destruction,' says Christ, `of body and soul in Gehenna.' [J.H. Pettingell, Homiletic Monthly (England), march, 1885.]

Archbishop Richard Whately (1787-1863) was archbishop of Dublin, Ireland and a professor at Oxford and principal. He taught the final destruction of the wicked and believed "The wicked are never spoken of as being kept alive, but as forfeiting life." [ Richard Whitley, A View of the Scriptural Revelations Concerning a Future State.]

Dr. Robert W. Dale (1829-1895) was a Congregationalist pastor of Carr's Lane Church in Birmingham. He was editor of The Congregationalist magazine; chairman of the `Congregational Union of England and Wales'; and president of the `First International Council of Congregational Churches in 1891'. He announced his acceptance of conditionalism in a paper before the Congregational Union of 1874.
"Eternal life, as I believe, is the inheritance of those who are in Christ. Those who are not in Him will die the Second Death from which there will be no resurrection ...
I am not conscious that they [the positions of Conditionalism] have at all impaired the authority in my teaching of any of the great central doctrines of the Christian faith.
The doctrine of the Trinity remains untouched; and
the doctrine of the incarnation, and
the doctrine of the atonement in its evangelical sense, and
the doctrine of justification by faith, and
the doctrine of judgment by works, and
the doctrine of regeneration
have received, I believe, from these conclusions a new and intenser illustration." [Freer's `Edward White', His Life and Work, 1902, pp. 354-355.]

Frederick W. Farrar (1831-1903) was the canon of Westminster Abbey and the dean of Canterbury. he denounced the
"... dogma of endless, conscious suffering and could not find a single text in all Scripture that, when fairly interpreted, teaches the common views about endless torment." [ Frederick Farrar, Eternal Hope, 1877]

William E. Gladstone (1809-1898) was a British Prime Minister and Theologian. In a searching criticism of Bishop Butler's Analogy and its defense of innate immortality, Gladstone contended:
"[It is only] from the time of Origen that we are to regard the idea of natural, as opposed to that of Christian, immortality as beginning to gain a firm foothold in the Christian Church." [William E. Gladstone, Studies Subsidiary to the Works of Bishop Butler, (1896 ed.), p. 184.]

So its a belief that has been held by many Christian scholars and ministers and preachers since the Reformation and in the Early Church before the Greek pagan beliefs entered in..

who were the people you are quoting? I am guessing many of us don't know who they are.

 

[The Learner]

and even more...
Dr. R. F. Weymouth (1822-1902) was the headmaster of Mill Hill School and translator of New Testament in Modern Speech. He said:
"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to destroy or destruction, are explained to mean `maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.' To translate black as white is nothing to this." [Edward White in Life in Christ, (1878), p. 365.]

In his book in a note on 1.Corinthians 15:18 he says:
"By `perish' the Apostle here apparently means `pass out of existence'."

On Hebrews 9:28 we read:
"The use in the N.T. of such words as `death', `destruction', `fire', `perish', to describe Future Retribution, point to the likelihood of fearful anguish, followed by extinction of being, as the doom which awaits those who by persistent rejection of the Saviour prove themselves utterly, and therefore irremediably bad." {Ibid.,]
On Revelation 14:11:
"There is nothing in this verse that necessarily implies an eternity of suffering. In a similar way the word `punishment' or `correction' in Matthew 25:46 gives itself no indication of time."
On Revelation 20:10:
"The Lake of fire implying awful pain and complete, irremediable ruin and destruction." [Ibid.,]

Dr. Lyman Abbott (1835-1922) was a Congregationlist pastor and editor of Christian Union and The Outlook. He wrote:
"Outside of the walls of Jerusalem, in the valley of Gehenna, was kept perpetually burning a fire, on which the offal of the city was thrown to be destroyed. This is the hell fire of the New Testament. Christ warns his auditors that persistence in sin will make them offal to be cast out from the holy city, to be destroyed. The worm that dieth not was the worm devouring the carcasses, and is equally clearly a symbol not of torture but of destruction." [Lyman Abbott, That Unknown Country, 1889.]

"The notion that the final punishment of sin is continuance in sin and suffering is also based in part on, what seems to me, a false philosophy of man. This philosophy is that man is by nature immortal. The conviction has grown on me, that according to the teaching of both of science and Scripture, man is by nature an animal, and like all other animals mortal; that immortality belongs only to the spiritual life; and that spiritual life is possible only in communion and contact with God; that, in short, immortality was not conferred upon the race in creation whether it would or not, but is conferred in redemption, upon all those of the race who choose life and immortality through Jesus Christ our Lord." [Ibid., ]

Dr. Edward Beecher (1803-1895) was a Congregationalist theologian and president of Illinois College. He stated:
"If [the Bible] does not recognize, nay, it expressly denies the natural and inherent immortality of the soul. It assures us that God only hath immortality. (1.Timothy 6:16). By this we understand that He has immortality in the highest sense - that is, inherent immortality. All existence besides Himself He created, and He upholds. Men are not, as Plato taught, self-existent, eternal beings, immortal in their very nature. ... There is no inherent immortality of the soul as such. What God created He sustains in being, and can annihilate at will." [Edward Beecher, Doctrine of Scriptural Retribution, p. 58.]

start quoting people we know.

 

[The Learner]

I have no interest in reading him,

EDWARD BEECHER - HISTORY OF OPINIONS ON THE SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE OF RETRIBUTION

At this time there are at least four positions assumed as to the destinies of the wicked : 1. That they are to be ultimately annihilated. 2. That they are to be ultimately restored to holiness and happiness. 3. That their punishment is endless. 4.

www.academia.edu

 

[Hobie]

start quoting people we know.

Lets look....

William Tyndale (1494–1536) argued against Thomas More in favour of soul sleep:
"And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection… And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good a case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?"

Anglicans such as E. W. Bullinger, and churches/groups such Christadelphians and man others, do not hold the conscious existence of the soul after death, believing the intermediate state of the dead to be unconscious “sleep”.

Martin Luther clearly did as in writing on Ecclesiastes, Luther says:
"Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute."

Elsewhere Luther states:
"As soon as thy eyes have closed shalt thou be woken, a thousand years shall be as if thou hadst slept but a little half hour. Just as at night we hear the clock strike and know not how long we have slept, so too, and how much more, are in death a thousand years soon past. Before a man should turn round, he is already a fair angel."

Throughout his life Luther maintained that it was not false doctrine to believe that a Christian’s soul sleeps after it is separated from the body in death and we see where this came from in this study:
"Having received his B. D., with skills not only in Latin but also in Hebrew and Greek, Luther was encouraged by Staupitz, vicar of the Augustinian Order, to study for a doctorate. This accomplished, he was summoned in 1512 to teach at the new University of Wittenberg, where scholastic philosophy was being replaced by Biblical theology. Luther came to react intensely against the speculative postulates of tradition and philosophy. By this time he was regarded as one of the most highly trained theologians of the Augustinian Order, having been made Doctor of Divinity ad Biblia (Doctor of Holy Scriptures). And now, appointed Professor of the Holy Bible, he vowed to defend the Sacred Book and its doctrines against all errors. The Word was set forth in his classroom as the final authority above council, church, and pope...

Luther's stand at the Diet of Worms was based on that concept, as he took his stand on the platform of Holy Scripture. His defense before the brilliant assembly of 210 high churchmen, princes, and nobles from every country of Europe was a truly imposing spectacle—one of the heroics of history, as this lone monk, in coarse brown frock, rose to the occasion, answering for his faith first in Latin and then in German, and brought his declarations to a climax with:

"Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason—I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each cither—my conscience is captive to the Word of God, I cannot and Iwill not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."

 

[Hobie]

...

"Immortal Soul" Concept Derived From "Roman Dunghill of Decretals"​

On November 29, 1520, Luther published a defense of the forty-one propositions that had been condemned by the bull Exsurge Domini, of June 15. This he titled Assertion of All the Articles Wrongly Condemned in the Roman Bull, thus publicly justifying his Theses. On the twenty-seventh item he states the general principle: "It is certain that it is not in the power of the church or the Pope to establish articles of faith, or laws for morals or good works." And he immediately gives as the reason that all true articles of faith are already established in the Word of God.

1. "IMMORTAL SOUL" INCLUDED AMONG POPE'S "MONSTROUS OPINIONS."—With ironical permission Luther grants to the pope the right and power to make special "articles of faith" for himself and his own followers. He lists five in the series, including the "immortality of the soul" as the fifth, all and each of which Luther expressly rejects. The significance of including "the soul is immortal ["animam esse immortalem"]" in what he denominates "monstrous opinions" and "Roman corruptions," is, of course, obvious. And he added immediately that these "all" came out of the "Roman dunghill of decretals"4—thus harking back to the pope's bull of December 19, 1513, wherein he declared the natural immortality of the soul to be a doctrine of the Catholic Church.5 Here are Luther's exact words:

"But I permit the Pope to make articles of faith for himself and his faithful, such as The Bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament. [2] The essence of God neither generates, nor is generated. [3] The soul is the substantial form of the human body. [4] The Pope is the emperor of the world, and the king of heaven, and God upon earth. [5] THE SOUL IS IMMORTAL, with all those monstrous opinions to be found in the Roman dunghill of decretals, that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such his disciples, and such his church, that the mouth may have meat suitable for it, and the dish, a cover worthy of it."

The implication is clear: These were distinctive Catholic doctrines, expressing the Roman faith, and consequently consistent with Catholic dogmas. But they were at variance with the Protestant scripturalism proclaimed by Luther, for the Biblical concept of the nature and the destiny of man had been woefully warped by the Papacy...

VI. Counters Purgatory With Unconscious Sleep of Soul​

The oppressive papal dogma of Purgatory, with its inseparable corollary of the conscious torment of anguished souls therein, was the immediate cause of Luther's counterposition on the sleep of the soul. As we will now see by direct quotations, he repeatedly contended that during death the soul is at rest, devoid of consciousness or pain. He stated many times that the Christian dead are unaware of anything, for they see not, feel not, understand not. They are asleep, oblivious of all passing events.17 More than one hundred times, scattered over the years Luther declared death to be a sleep.18 and repeatedly asserted that in death there is total unconsciousness and consequent unawareness of the passage of time.19 He presses the point that death is a sound, sweet sleep.20 And furthermore, the dead will remain asleep until the day of resurrection,21 which resurrection embraces both body and soul, when both will he brought together again.22 Here are sample statements:

1. DEAD ARE UNCONSCIOUS OF PASSING TIME.—First, there is Luther's clear comment based on Ecclesiastes 9:10:

"Another proof that the dead are insensible. Solomon thinks, therefore, that the dead are altogether asleep, and think of nothing. They lie, not reckoning days or years, but, when awakened, will seem to themselves to have slept scarcely a moment."23

2. DEATH A "DEEP, STRONG, SWEET SLEEP."—The same thought was interwoven by Luther into the prescribed funeral service for the Christian:

"But we Christians, who have been redeemed from all this through the precious blood of God's Son, should train and accustom ourselves in faith to despise death and regard it as a deep, strong, sweet sleep; to consider the coffin as nothing other than our Lord Jesus' bosom or Paradise, the grave as nothing other than a soft couch of ease or rest. As verily, before God, it truly is just this; for he testifies, John 11:21: Lazarus, our friend sleeps; Matthew 9:24: The maiden is not dead, she sleeps.

"Thus, too, St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, removes from sight all hateful aspects of death as related to our mortal body and brings forward nothing but charming and joyful aspects of the promised life. He says there (vv. 42 ff.): It is sown in corruption and will rise in incorruption; it is sown in dishonor (that is, a hateful, shameful form) and will rise in glory; it is sown in weakness and will rise in strength; it is sown in natural body and will rise a spiritual body."24

3. SLEEPS IN UNCONSCIOUS REST AND PEACE.—Luther explains that, unconscious of passing time or surrounding events, the sleeping soul will awake at the call of the Life-giver:

"Thus after death the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping it does not realize its sleep, and God preserves indeed the awakening soul. God is able to awake Elijah, Moses, and others, and so control them, so that they will live. But how can that be? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, a rest, and a peace. He who sleeps naturally knows nothing of that which happens in his neighbor's house; and nevertheless, he still is living, even though, contrary to the nature of life, he is unconscious in his sleep. Exactly the same will happen also in that life, but in another and better way."25

4. RESTS SECURELY TILL AWAKENER CALLS.—Death, Luther repeatedly asserts, means lying down in rest, with surcease from life's cares, until the one great awakening call of all the saints at the resurrection, when they all come from the grave together. Thus:

"We should learn to view our death in the right light, so that we need not become alarmed on account of it, as unbelief does; because in Christ it is indeed not death, but a fine, sweet and brief sleep, which brings us release from this vale of tears, from sin and from the fear and extremity of real death and from all the misfortunes of this life, and we shall be secure and without care, rest sweetly and gently for a brief moment, as on a sofa, until the time when he shall call and awaken us together with all his dear children to his eternal glory and joy.

"For since we call it a sleep, we know that we shall not remain in it, but be again awakened and live, and that the time during which we sleep, shall seem no longer than if we had just fallen asleep. Hence, we shall censure ourselves that we were surprised or alarmed at such a sleep in the hour of death, and suddenly come alive out of the grave and from decomposition, and entirely well, fresh, with a pure, clear, glorified life, meet our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the clouds. . . .

"Scripture everywhere affords such consolation, which speaks of the death of the saints, as if they fell asleep and were gathered to their fathers, that is, had overcome death through this faith and comfort in Christ, and awaited the resurrection, together with the saints who preceded them in death,"26

 

[Lambano]

I have no interest in reading him,

EDWARD BEECHER - HISTORY OF OPINIONS ON THE SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE OF RETRIBUTION

At this time there are at least four positions assumed as to the destinies of the wicked : 1. That they are to be ultimately annihilated. 2. That they are to be ultimately restored to holiness and happiness. 3. That their punishment is endless. 4.

www.academia.edu

But at least I've heard of Beecher, if only because of his more famous brother Henry and sister Harriet. Piece of trivia my mind latched onto from a course on US Cultural History I took in college.