Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

[Timtofly]

jeffweeder said:
LK 20
34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this [world and present] age marry and [the women] are given in marriage; 35 but those who are considered worthy to gain that [other world and that future] age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 and they cannot die again, because they are [immortal] like the angels (equal to, angel-like). And they are children of God, being participants in the resurrection.


Philipp 3
20 But [we are different, because] our citizenship is in heaven. And from there we eagerly await [the coming of] the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who, by exerting that power which enables Him even to subject everything to Himself, will [not only] transform [but completely refashion] our earthly bodies so that they will be like His glorious resurrected body.

Romans 6:9
because we know [the self-evident truth] that Christ, having been raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has power over Him.


Tim's reply

They are not the same body obviously.
We are then like the Angels who are immortal. If you disagree , then name one instance where we are told about an Angel dying.

We are like Jesus, never again to die...eternal life....remaining with him from hence forever and ever.
Adam on the other hand was warned not to sin lest he die.
Big difference between Adam's body and Jesus glorified body. We will all possess a body like his glorious body which can never die again.

Angels are the stars. They were created to shine light for as long as they were necessary. Angels are not a second group of beings alongside the sons of God.

Stars don't procreate with other stars and have baby stars.

Jesus never said we would become stars. Jesus said we would not procreate once we left this earth. There are several Scriptures that also state we will shine as the stars. How do you think that will even happen?

Adam was never created to die either. He was not created to sin. He was given one law or command. As long as Adam never disobeyed, his soul would never be placed into a body of death.

There is no difference between the body Adam was created with and the one Jesus was born with. Neither were mortal, of death, nor corruptible, of sin. Adam was in the image of the body Jesus was born with. So the exact same body. Jesus said, before Abraham, I am. Jesus is the alpha and the omega. Jesus will always have that physical body from the beginning until the end, and always in eternity. The only reason that body is glorious, is because that body is without sin.

Still nothing about having an immortal body. Is a building compared to a tent, immortal, or permanent as opposed to temporal?

2 Corinthians 5:1

 

[WPM]

Why don't you listen to what people post? I asked a question. I never claimed you said anything about Adam and Eve.

You obviously don't even know what it means to be glorified, or you would quote a verse to back up your opinion.

You would be in Adam's image even if Adam never sinned. There would be no sin nor death. You do invent a third type of body not found in Scripture. One either has the original body Adam was created with, or the one they have now. There is no third type as you propose that you named glorified and immortal.

We are not in God's image as a son of God, because we have the dead corruptible flesh handed down from Adam. Adam was in God's image a son of God. That is found directly in Luke's genealogy.

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

Adam physically died the instant he disobeyed God, and lost that incorruptible permanent physical body. His soul was placed in a body of death and corruption. Only two types of bodies.

Yes, but we are getting new incorruptible deathless bodies when Jesus comes. Adam did not have that. He had the capacity to sin. We will not. We will be perfected.

You have clearly no answer to the biblical evidence, that is why you keep avoiding it.

 

[WPM]

Exactly, right back into the physical body Adam had from the moment he was a living soul, until the instant he disobeyed God.

He obviously did not have a deathless body. Hello! He died.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, but we are getting new incorruptible deathless bodies when Jesus comes. Adam did not have that. He had the capaicty to sin. We will not. We will be perfected.

You have clearly no answer to the biblical evidence, that is why you keep avoiding it.

If you believe that, then the angels were created with the capacity to sin.

Has any of the angels been redeemed?

Adam only had the capacity to sin, after he was placed into a body of death, that did have the capacity to sin.

Romans 5:12 explains there was no sin, until Adam disobeyed. So what does it even mean to have the capacity to sin, if sin did not even exist in the world?

Do you think that as a future son of God there are no rules at all. One can just do anything they please, as God can do anything that pleases Him?

 

[Timtofly]

He obviously did not have a deathless body. Hello! He died.

He died, because God said he would die, hello! Are you calling God a liar, that God cannot give life or take life away?

God can kill a person that has an immortal body as you put it if that was God's will. Remember that the clay pot has no say in what the creator can or cannot do?

 

[WPM]

If you believe that, then the angels were created with the capacity to sin.

Has any of the angels been redeemed?

Adam only had the capacity to sin, after he was placed into a body of death, that did have the capacity to sin.

Romans 5:12 explains there was no sin, until Adam disobeyed. So what does it even mean to have the capacity to sin, if sin did not even exist in the world?

Do you think that as a future son of God there are no rules at all. One can just do anything they please, as God can do anything that pleases Him?

Not true! Quite the opposite. Stop twisting what I am saying. His body only began to die when he sinned.

When the angels fell, there was no way back. They were doomed. There was no redemption.

 

[Timtofly]

Not true! Quite the opposite. Stop twisting what I am saying. His body only began to die when he sinned.

When the angels fell, there was no way back. They were doomed. There was no redemption.

Adam was placed into a body of death. That was the purpose of redemption. Otherwise Adam would have just been bound in the pit with no redemption either.

Sin was the punishment of Adam's disobedience. Romans 5 explains the result of Adam's disobedience.

There was a physical change. The reversal of that change is back into the physical body of incorruption. Adam's disobedience caused the change between a body of incorruption into a body of corruption. Jesus' obedience produced the change from the body of corruption back into the body of incorruption.

 

[WPM]

Adam was placed into a body of death. That was the purpose of redemption. Otherwise Adam would have just been bound in the pit with no redemption either.

Sin was the punishment of Adam's disobedience. Romans 5 explains the result of Adam's disobedience.

There was a physical change. The reversal of that change is back into the physical body of incorruption. Adam's disobedience caused the change between a body of incorruption into a body of corruption. Jesus' obedience produced the change from the body of corruption back into the body of incorruption.

Where does it say: "Adam was placed into a body of death"? Death came upon Adam when he sinned.

Sin was NOT the punishment of Adam's disobedience, it is what disobedience is.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does it say: "Adam was placed into a body of death"? Death came upon Adam when he sinned.

Sin was NOT the punishment of Adam's disobedience, it is what disobedience is.

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

Only Adam could disobey God, and break that Law.

No one sinned like Adam, so Adam did not sin like the rest who were born into sin. Sin only entered as the punishment. Now you can call transgression, sin, or simply disobedience. But it was not the same as sin after that point.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin."

Sin was not sitting latent in Adam. Death and sin were never even a concept nor heard of in creation until Adam disobeyed. Obviously God as omniscient, knew about it. But Satan did not. None of the rebel angels, actually died. If they even rebelled prior to Adam's disobedience.

Adam was the figure of the Second Adam, Jesus. Only Jesus could redeem mankind through obedience to God. Not by just living a perfect life and keeping all the Law of Moses. Adam did not disobey God because Adam was a sinner with the capacity to sin. Adam disobeyed God by taking that first bite, that was the only law to be broken.

You are not interpreting Scripture with Scripture. You are just making stuff up. Adam physically died that instant, and became a sinner, because that is what God said would happen. He went from incorruption to corruption. The exact opposite of the redeemed who go from corruption to incorruption. To restore a situation is to reverse the process, not come up with a third option. Your third option is that Adam was created in a way that is different from the result of disobedience and the result of redemption. The restoration is back into the original condition Adam was created with. Only two conditions, one of life, and one of death.

 

[WPM]

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

Only Adam could disobey God, and break that Law.

No one sinned like Adam, so Adam did not sin like the rest who were born into sin. Sin only entered as the punishment. Now you can call transgression, sin, or simply disobedience. But it was not the same as sin after that point.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin."

Sin was not sitting latent in Adam. Death and sin were never even a concept nor heard of in creation until Adam disobeyed. Obviously God as omniscient, knew about it. But Satan did not. None of the rebel angels, actually died. If they even rebelled prior to Adam's disobedience.

Adam was the figure of the Second Adam, Jesus. Only Jesus could redeem mankind through obedience to God. Not by just living a perfect life and keeping all the Law of Moses. Adam did not disobey God because Adam was a sinner with the capacity to sin. Adam disobeyed God by taking that first bite, that was the only law to be broken.

You are not interpreting Scripture with Scripture. You are just making stuff up. Adam physically died that instant, and became a sinner, because that is what God said would happen. He went from incorruption to corruption. The exact opposite of the redeemed who go from corruption to incorruption. To restore a situation is to reverse the process, not come up with a third option. Your third option is that Adam was created in a way that is different from the result of disobedience and the result of redemption. The restoration is back into the original condition Adam was created with. Only two conditions, one of life, and one of death.

Where does it say: "Adam was placed into a body of death"?

 

[Timtofly]

Where does it say: "Adam was placed into a body of death"?

"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

They noticed a difference to their physical and spiritual makeup.

Besides the fact that Paul stated we put off the corruptible and put on the incorruptible. That is the soul moving from this body of death to the body of life.

 

[WPM]

"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

They noticed a difference to their physical and spiritual makeup.

Besides the fact that Paul stated we put off the corruptible and put on the incorruptible. That is the soul moving from this body of death to the body of life.

Ok. So, you have nothing? Adam was NOT "placed into a body of death," death entered into the body he had and he eventually died.

 

[Timtofly]

Ok. So, you have nothing? Adam was NOT placed into a body of death," death entered into the body he had and he eventually died.

So then Paul says life will enter the body of sin?

You are going to take your flesh body that death has entered into to heaven and keep it going by eating from the tree of life? Is that how you maintain this body of death, by entering life into it, because when Adam lived death entered?

What verse claims death enters into a God created body?

Are you saying the soul cannot leave one body, and enter into another body? Explain 2 Corinthians 5:1 with the ability to have only one body where evidently death or life can enter that one body.

 

[WPM]

So then Paul says life will enter the body of sin?

You are going to take your flesh body that death has entered into to heaven and keep it going by eating from the tree of life? Is that how you maintain this body of death, by entering life into it, because when Adam lived death entered?

What verse claims death enters into a God created body?

Are you saying the soul cannot leave one body, and enter into another body? Explain 2 Corinthians 5:1 with the ability to have only one body where evidently death or life can enter that one body.

Where does it say: "Adam was placed into a body of death"? Death came into the body that Adam possessed when he sinned.

Sin was NOT the punishment of Adam's disobedience, it is what disobedience is.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does it say: "Adam was placed into a body of death"? Death came into the body that Adam possessed when he sinned.

Sin was NOT the punishment of Adam's disobedience, it is what disobedience is.

You can keep saying that is what you believe, but you have no Scripture that states death came into a body. Paul states in all his writings on restoration, that the soul puts on a body so it is not naked. Now you can just call that symbolic, but no where does it say a physical body takes on death.

Adam was placed in a different body because his soul physically lost the permanent incorruptible physical body. He was created with. Adam new that because he saw a different body that was naked and no longer spiritually clothed in a white robe.

Now Adam would face the slow decay of a temporal corruptible physical body that would eventually turn to dust, and no longer exists as a recognizable structure.

If you think God just changes the same body, what is a resurrection for, or the distinction between corruptible and incorruptible? 2 Corinthians 5:1.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

What God gave to Adam when He breathed into him the breadth of life, was that building of God not made by hands. Adam passed down a different image, that was now, temporal and corruptible.

Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth."

This shows us that Adam did not have the same physical body to pass down to Seth, he was created with in God's image. Adam passed down that body made from human hands with sin and corruption. Two different images.

Why are you looking for that one proof text that spells it out for you as if you lacked faith in the total volume of Scripture? Most doctrine taken from a single verse, ends up contradicting other Scripture that gives a clearer picture of how God operates. Adam physically died, and as in all physical death, his soul left that body that God gave him, because the penalty for that one act of disobedience, brought death and sin onto all his descendants. Adam lost the spirit as well as that was the robe of white, John tells us in Revelation 6:11

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

The 5th Seal is when all the church at one time are restored to the image of God spiritually.

In these verses it does not even say Adam died. Did Adam die or not, like God said? Do you believe Satan, or God?

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Did they die like God said, or did God lie? The text does not even imply they died, much less explicitly point that out. You have to read the rest of the Bible to figure out what exactly happened.

It certainly does not say in those verses that death entered their bodies.

 

[WPM]

You can keep saying that is what you believe, but you have no Scripture that states death came into a body. Paul states in all his writings on restoration, that the soul puts on a body so it is not naked. Now you can just call that symbolic, but no where does it say a physical body takes on death.

Adam was placed in a different body because his soul physically lost the permanent incorruptible physical body. He was created with. Adam new that because he saw a different body that was naked and no longer spiritually clothed in a white robe.

Now Adam would face the slow decay of a temporal corruptible physical body that would eventually turn to dust, and no longer exists as a recognizable structure.

If you think God just changes the same body, what is a resurrection for, or the distinction between corruptible and incorruptible? 2 Corinthians 5:1.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

What God gave to Adam when He breathed into him the breadth of life, was that building of God not made by hands. Adam passed down a different image, that was now, temporal and corruptible.

Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth."

This shows us that Adam did not have the same physical body to pass down to Seth, he was created with in God's image. Adam passed down that body made from human hands with sin and corruption. Two different images.

Why are you looking for that one proof text that spells it out for you as if you lacked faith in the total volume of Scripture? Most doctrine taken from a single verse, ends up contradicting other Scripture that gives a clearer picture of how God operates. Adam physically died, and as in all physical death, his soul left that body that God gave him, because the penalty for that one act of disobedience, brought death and sin onto all his descendants. Adam lost the spirit as well as that was the robe of white, John tells us in Revelation 6:11

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

The 5th Seal is when all the church at one time are restored to the image of God spiritually.

In these verses it does not even say Adam died. Did Adam die or not, like God said? Do you believe Satan, or God?

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Did they die like God said, or did God lie? The text does not even imply they died, much less explicitly point that out. You have to read the rest of the Bible to figure out what exactly happened.

It certainly does not say in those verses that death entered their bodies.

You make it up as you go. You can provide no Scripture to support your speculations.

Adam died spiritually when he took the forbidden fruit. He did not die physically.

Where does it say that "Adam was placed in a different body because his soul physically lost the permanent incorruptible physical body"? Give us hard Scripture instead of your constant opinions.

 

[Timtofly]

You make it up as you go. You can provide no Scripture to support your speculations.

Adam died spiritually when he took the forbidden fruit. He did not die physically.

Where does it say that "Adam was placed in a different body because his soul physically lost the permanent incorruptible physical body"? Give us hard Scripture instead of your constant opinions.

You cannot even address the Scripture I do provide.

 

[WPM]

You cannot even address the Scripture I do provide.

The Scriptures you present do not support your claims. Answer my questions please that address your claims.

 

[Timtofly]

The Scriptures you present do not support your claims. Answer my questions please that address your claims.

Yes they do, because they describe the condition that all humans have been born into. There is no verse claiming what you claim either. God said Adam would die, and Adam died just as God said, otherwise, you are calling God a liar, and then you need proof that God did not lie. I am pointing out the Scripture that declares what happens at death.

 

[WPM]

Per Revelation 22, one of the major changes with the future new heavens and a new earth time, is then there will be NO MORE DEATH. That's huge!

Rev 21:1
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV


However, for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect beginning at His future return, we are told there will still exist the "second death", and what it is, i.e., the casting of the unsaved into the future "lake of fire" AFTER... the "thousand years" period.

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Those of the "first resurrection" of course mean the saved, Christ's elect that reign with Him.

Did you notice in that time there will exist the concept of a "SECOND DEATH", and that it is NOT for those of the "first resurrection"??

Use a little common sense now and ask yourself, since that "second death" is NOT for those who live and reign with Christ, then WHO is it for? For the UNSAVED, or course!!

Do you realize what that means for men's false theory of Amillennialism which believes all... the unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's return???

It means that Amillennialism theory is FALSE, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY FALSE!

And all it took was one simple little look at that concept of the "second death" for the wicked and unsaved, which is their casting into the "lake of fire" AFTER the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is over (see Rev.20).

The second death

When it comes to the meaning of “the second death” most evangelicals are in solid agreement that this is talking about eternal damnation. Revelation 20:14 tells us: “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

References to the term “the second death” are only found in the book of Revelation. Outside of our main references in Revelation 20, we find only two other mentions, in Revelation chapters 2 and 21. Revelation 21:6-8 outlines the nature of the second death and those that see it, and most important the type and way a person escapes it, saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

But what many Premillennialists do not consider is that if believers have not yet had their part in the first resurrection, and if, as Scripture teaches, it is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and it is still future, then the second death still has power over believers in this life. That means they have not already experienced eternal life in which they shall never die, and overcome eternal death, as Jesus and the New Testament writers continually promised happens upon salvation. They have not been delivered from darkness to light. They still don't possess an eternal hope. They have not yet defeated sin, death and Hades. They are not then seated in heavenly places. This reality is still future. This false teaching, negates numerous explicit New Testament passages. This is what Premillennialism produces – contradiction after contradiction.

There is another major contradiction in Premillennialism that many fail to consider, and that is, if the first resurrection is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and if it is yet future, and it relates to the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ, this means that the living in Christ do not partake in the only means by which we conquer the second death at the second coming. After all, they do not die, they are therefore not resurrected. They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

Only the Amillennialist explanation makes sense, is supported by numerous other Scripture, and recognizes the current ongoing realization of this great fulfillment. Only this interpretation embraces all the elect – which is the thrust of the teaching. The reality is, all God’s people have their part in Christ’s first resurrection and therefore escape eternal damnation.

This resurrection has to be spiritual “in Christ.” Notably, this promise in Revelation 20:6 is in the present tense, thus supporting the Amil interpretation. Basically, this is not simply a future hope, it is a present reality for the redeemed. When we get saved, all the redeemed of all times (without exception) partake in this glorious resurrection. This therefore gives them a current ongoing everlasting victory over eternal punishment (as repeatedly taught in Scripture).

The first resurrection

The first resurrection is shown throughout the Word to be Christ’s resurrection.

Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first [Gr. protos] that should rise [Gr. anastasis] from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (or prototokos) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

The word prototokos here is the combination of protos (Strong’s 4416) and tikto (Strong’s 5088). It means what it says.

Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (or prototokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first [Gr. protos] resurrection [Gr. anastasis]: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

This is evidence! This is corroboration!