Interesting, thanks.
Have you seen this forum topic, Would like your reaction to the OP.
Did Jesus tell the Pharisees that they were gods? - John 10:34
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Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
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Have you seen this forum topic, Would like your reaction to the OP.
Did Jesus tell the Pharisees that they were gods? - John 10:34
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Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]? - John 10:34 NIV
This interesting interchange between Jesus and his Jewish opponents (Pharisees?) leaves me wondering
what Jesus was trying to say about his Jewish opponents, or anyone for that matter. Seems as though Jesus answered their
blasphemy charge by saying they too were gods (sons of God), quoting Psalm 82:6 to make his point. (quoted below)
What do you make of this?
Here's the context of John 10:34
John 10:22-39 NIV
Then came the Festival of Dedication[a] at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade.
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying,
“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe.
The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[b];
no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them,
“I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,”
they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works,
that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
Psalm 82:6 NIV
“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
It’s said in concession.
This interesting interchange between Jesus and his Jewish opponents (Pharisees?) leaves me wondering
what Jesus was trying to say about his Jewish opponents, or anyone for that matter. Seems as though Jesus answered their
blasphemy charge by saying they too were gods (sons of God), quoting Psalm 82:6 to make his point. (quoted below)
What do you make of this?
Here's the context of John 10:34
John 10:22-39 NIV
Then came the Festival of Dedication[a] at Jerusalem. It was winter,
23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade.
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying,
“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe.
The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[b];
no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them,
“I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,”
they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works,
that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
Psalm 82:6 NIV
“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
It’s said in concession.
What do you mean?
What was Jesus conceding to?
I was hoping you would post your entire reply on the actual topic. But... (such is life) - LOL
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‘Said in concession’ isn’t the same as ‘Jesus conceded to’ (some thing, some one or a what).
Feel free to put @Phil on any topic.
Bill Judson
Member
John 14:23 - Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
It's silly to say one should not put what God says on the same level as God Himself.
God and His Word are ONE - you cannot separate the two.
It appears that those making this goofy bibliolatry are useful idiots for satan who is always seeking to get mankind to depart from what God says. It's very obvious they this is one of the devil's snares.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
The way I figure it, in the beginning was the word, and it was spoken by the Lord. Then the word was dictated to some with good penmanship, then printed and distibuted among us.
The book does not have power, the words of that which was spoken have power behind them. That power will not dissapate because of who spoke them. This was done that the word be made manifest in a spiritually fallen world. Something to see for those who have eyes to see with maybe not ears to hear?
Well... it was a bit more complicated than that. A little education may be in order.
Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101
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Truth is ineffable. Simpler than simple.
Perhaps humility is in order?
I don’t know.
Much love.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Wow... You are actually making the mistake that I was poking fun at.
When the Bible refers to "The Word," that is NOT a self-reference. It's talking about Jesus in His pre-existent and eternal state of Godhood, before the Incarnation and after the Resurrection. It is talking about the full contents of the Mind of God Almighty.
The Bible does NOT contain the full contents of the Mind of God.
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.
Yes.
"The Word" seems to me to be a terrible translation of the idea behind the Logos.
In the beginning was the Logos... the Logos BECAME flesh and dwelt among us.
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Hillsage
Well-Known Member
For years I have said; "Even Fundamentalists speak in tongues." I started saying that right after coming to my first ever CHRISTIAN FORUM. I'd never heard the words like Eisegesis, Exegesis, Mariology, Hermeneutics, Soteriology.....etc. etc. The 'topical' forum menu was just like the 'babble' in my ears. The same kind of 'babble' they accuse me of speaking, believing it's my spirit speaking through the yielded 'tongue of my flesh'.
Yep there's that 'babble' word again. But now I know 'their tongues' too.
I just wish they 'experientially' knew my tongues.They leave us and then say "YOU'RE DIVISIVE"!! I am grateful to have learned how to 'play the game' with most of the church. 6 years ago, after not going to a 'structured' "christian" church for 8 years, we actually went to a REFORMED PRESBYTERIAN BAPTIST whatever it was. Pastor was very much not into CHARISMATA but loved my wife and fellowshiped 'one on one' with me for 2 years. We were always 'iron sharpening iron'. He even knew I prayed in tongues during Sunday service 'at times' but, I told him, just not loud enough for anyone else to hear. He said; "That's OK, as long as you're doing it that way." He literally told me one time that he had to defend 'us' being in 'their church'....to his board of elders.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
This rings bells...
Some keep studying the manual and never drive the car.
Some keep studying the map and never walk on the Way.
But the deeper issue is that Satan still uses the quest for knowledge to draw folks off track as in the garden.
So I have sought to surrender to God the desire to know.
Intellectual humility is rare and beautiful.
We are called to fulfil a purpose and uniquely created for it.
Seek then just the understanding we need that pertains to our specific calling and nothing else.
Millions are spent on chasing the latest seminar - in terms of teaching in vs. fruit out this approach does not stack up.
So be a specialist in the knowledge of your calling and skip the rest.
This approach will make some folks mad at you - I have no calling to end times issues - folks hate it when I refuse to dialogue with them about it. My personal focus is on being where He wants me today and the future events will take care of themselves.
When I was in Israel I noticed the church was weak partly because of an obsession with end times.
Rant off
When I was an advertising copywriter, before I became a lawyer, I became acquainted with a famous little book called A Technique for Producing Ideas by advertising executive James Webb Young, Amazon.com. The technique is to wrestle with a problem until you are mentally exhausted, in a state of complete overload. Then just LET IT GO. Days later, when you are doing something completely different - maybe washing tha car - the solution will pop into your mind. The technique definitely works - even famous scientists have described the same thing.
I recently experienced something similar with Christianity. In my quest for a deep understanding, I spent decades so steeped in philosophy, theology and apologetics that I was practically brain-numb and cross-eyed. Quite recently, I just LET IT GO. I think the quest was a very valuable exercise - the overload that Webb describes. I'm not sure I would've had my recent epiphany without it. But the solution that popped into my mind was: NONE OF THIS MATTERS. 98% of what is hashed and rehashed on forums such as this DOESN'T MATTER. So now I focus on prayer and communion and my actual Christian walk - and I spend WAY less on books!
Our natural tendency in defense of “my knowledge is superior to your knowledge”, is akin to “eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.”
A ever better question even though there may be a bunch of “I do not know.” Is what is it that you are still trying to figure out on a certain subject pertaining to the Bible.
It’s so good to grow and sprout in the vine, as the vinedresser dresses and cuts them back from time to time. While the Bible be it true or not, it’s the only thing that helped me in understanding by the spirit.
Everyone has their own ideas, and they have their stances they will have. Some will break those stances. Some will never change.
What is true is that there is change in being washed in the word, or allowing what you read to be understandable the audience, time, happenstance. Similar to when I see that post about the “renewal of all things” that is in place today.
All of us need a great mind renewal; and reminders are welcome.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
How can you test and approve what Gods will is? Is the Bible useful to find information concerning that or is it just a bunch of phooy one has to ask themselves that question, right?
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
MA2444
Well-Known Member
So what does that thing do that you spoke of earlier? Measure the speed of a bird in flight?
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Things get interesting when we're talking about 'the human BEING' as well as 'the human DOING'. And what you just described reminds me of the three levels of the soul. When studying to be a doctor....YES CHIROPRACTORS are doctors;
We learned that the body really has 3 brains. The cephalic one in your skull, the cardiac Plexus in your heart, and Auerbach's plexus in your gut. Your cardiac plexus develops before your brain does. Who told it to grow and start beating to form blood vessels to start growing the brain? Anyway I break the 'soul' (mind, will, emotion) down to the three levels of consciousness. Conscious, Sub-conscious and Un-conscious. One of the definitions of 'heart' in the Hebrew and Greek is 'the center' and 'the middle'.Heb 3820 leb: the heart; also used (fig.) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything
Gr 2588 kardia: the heart, i.e. (fig.) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by anal.) the middle
The heart (subconscious) is in the center, or in the middle between the Head and Gut. It is oft considered the seat of our emotions (feelings). Long ago I read a scientific article where they discussed how, when they hooked someone up to an EKG and and EEG at the same time and then asked the client questions, they noticed something weird. There were some questions where 'the brain' and 'the heart' seemed to be battling each other. But WE know "out of the abundance of the HEART the mouth speaks."
As it turns out the heart sends twice as much information to the brain as the brain does to the heart.
So when you talked about your "quest for deep understanding", I am drawn to the brain that is in the GUT....it's the one you get 'gut feelings' from. And what did Jesus say? "out of the belly flow rivers of living water...the spirit" I believe "water" is symbolic for "words" as in "washing with the water of the word"
EPH 5:25 .....Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word/rhema,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
As we seek to hear His sanctifying RHEMA/word, I pray brethren that we all attain to that "high calling of/from God that's in Christ Jesus.
What Is Brain & Heart Coherence?
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