Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[MA2444]

No - it is measuring the direction and speed of the wind. :)

I dont understand why you called it a bird anemometer then. I used to use anemometers in my work so am pretty familiar with them. WHat's different about yours? That you added a compass to it for direction?

You dont have to answer if it would release previously unreleased info though. You just have piqued my curiosity thats all.

 

[St. SteVen]

We learned that the body really has 3 brains. ...

Wow.
Fascinating information. Explains a lot.

I have noticed that just a whim of an anxious thought can send me to the toilet for brief diarrhea.
The brain talking to the gut, I suppose. Or perhaps the heart talking to the gut? Not sure.

/

 

[Spyder]

It is sometimes shocking to find that, no matter what we were taught in our past, the brain, the heart, and the gut can agree. That happens when Yahweh gives us the understanding that we have been asking for. I have found that there is no escaping it - even when I pleaded with God to take it back. It can turn one's church-world upside down.

 

[MA2444]

Things get interesting when we're talking about 'the human BEING' as well as 'the human DOING'. And what you just described reminds me of the three levels of the soul. When studying to be a doctor....YES CHIROPRACTORS are doctors; We learned that the body really has 3 brains. The cephalic one in your skull, the cardiac Plexus in your heart, and Auerbach's plexus in your gut. Your cardiac plexus develops before your brain does. Who told it to grow and start beating to form blood vessels to start growing the brain? Anyway I break the 'soul' (mind, will, emotion) down to the three levels of consciousness. Conscious, Sub-conscious and Un-conscious. One of the definitions of 'heart' in the Hebrew and Greek is 'the center' and 'the middle'.

Heb 3820 leb: the heart; also used (fig.) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything
Gr 2588 kardia: the heart, i.e. (fig.) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by anal.) the middle

The heart (subconscious) is in the center, or in the middle between the Head and Gut. It is oft considered the seat of our emotions (feelings). Long ago I read a scientific article where they discussed how, when they hooked someone up to an EKG and and EEG at the same time and then asked the client questions, they noticed something weird. There were some questions where 'the brain' and 'the heart' seemed to be battling each other. But WE know "out of the abundance of the HEART the mouth speaks."

As it turns out the heart sends twice as much information to the brain as the brain does to the heart.

So when you talked about your "quest for deep understanding", I am drawn to the brain that is in the GUT....it's the one you get 'gut feelings' from. And what did Jesus say? "out of the belly flow rivers of living water...the spirit" I believe "water" is symbolic for "words" as in "washing with the water of the word"

EPH 5:25 .....Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word/rhema,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

As we seek to hear His sanctifying RHEMA/word, I pray brethren that we all attain to that "high calling of/from God that's in Christ Jesus.

What Is Brain & Heart Coherence?

Call to learn more about what brain and heart coherence is and how it can help improve your mental health and manage your symptoms.

alleviant.com

Good night ALL. And may the COHERENCE be with you.

That is very interesting. I have read all of this stuff before and that is exactly how I understand it!

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
I had a gut feeling...
I think...

I've learned to pay attention to who's talking inside of me! Which part of me. My spirit speaks in words and perceptions. (Intuition). It helps and is easy once you get used to it. They said in that literature that they can pick up the wireless signals of the brain and the heart from a remote, and that the heart is (4X?) stronger than our mind. That it significant.

No wonder the demons always knew that Jesus was coming!

 

[Ziggy]

The Id, The Ego, and The Superego.

Hugs

 

[MA2444]

The Id, The Ego, and The Superego.

Hugs

Hmm, I hadnt thought of that. That could be I think! Let me ask you something...is our Imagination a function of our heart? I'm about convinced it is but am not sure.

 

[MA2444]

When scripture tells us to meditate upon the scriptures, that means to use our imagination with it. Right? We are to see ourselves doing the things in the scriptures in our imagination.

Jesus said, All these things I do, you will do and even more. And if our imagination is centered in ur heart, that is what scriptures say to guard very diligently!

Have you ever imagined that you raised someone from the dead? I havent. Perhaps I should.

 

[Ziggy]

Hmm, I hadnt thought of that. That could be I think! Let me ask you something...is our Imagination a function of our heart? I'm about convinced it is but am not sure.

Something about lusts, desires, imaginations...
Jesus says such things come from the heart I believe.
But the heart and mind are connected.
Heart is feeling, mind is thinking, soul is doing.

So what then we think it or we feel it and the body follows the orders of the , emotions or intellect?

Which rules which, the mind or the heart?
I believe you can reason and rationalize with the mind, but the heart, once it gets set on a course, the emotions can even override rationizing.

I know Im going to get burned if I go in the house on fire, but I love my family and will go in to save them.

I am so angry I could kill someone, but I know if I do there will be consequences to pay.

I guess it depends on which is stronger.
But if both are in unison, don't kill anybody, but go save those people... that's where we have to connect the dots, or God connects them.
The body just does whatever its told.

Hugs

 

[MA2444]

Something about lusts, desires, imaginations...
Jesus says such things come from the heart I believe.
But the heart and mind are connected.
Heart is feeling, mind is thinking, soul is doing.

So what then we think it or we feel it and the body follows the orders of the , emotions or intellect?

Which rules which, the mind or the heart?
I believe you can reason and rationalize with the mind, but the heart, once it gets set on a course, the emotions can even override rationizing.

I know Im going to get burned if I go in the house on fire, but I love my family and will go in to save them.

I am so angry I could kill someone, but I know if I do there will be consequences to pay.

I guess it depends on which is stronger.
But if both are in unison, don't kill anybody, but go save those people... that's where we have to connect the dots, or God connects them.
The body just does whatever its told.

Hugs

Well we are presented the choice in thought and the soul decides whether or not to make the body act?

Our heart feeds us pictures and feeling in the form of intuition. The heart does not think like the soulish mind does. SO what do we have so far?
Soul = Mind, Will and Emotions.
Spirit =Fellowship, Intuition, and Conscience.
Body = Action, Food, Water?

 

[MA2444]

You see, I tink that our imagination plays a much more significant part in everything than people give it credit for. I tried to talk about this on another forum once and they kept on with the same scripture, the heart is evil and wicked above all things, so...crush your imagination. I don't buy that. It depends on what you think about, what you dwell on, what you meditate on, are they evil thoughts? Then evil will get into your heart. Are they good thoughts? Then you will walk the Lord's path because out of the abundance of the heart (Whatever it is full of (!!) will overfllow into my mouth, or the mouth speaks.

So the imagination is a good thing, but yes, we have to control our thoughts. To dwell on lust or something evil would be detrimental to our heart. Better to be submersed in scripture 12 hours a day instead of 12 hours of porn. (Not that I am in to porn but many are). My last porn was the Playboy magazines under my bed when I was about 10 years old lol.

What we think about we dwell on. What we dwell on we connect with. What we connect with gets into our heart and becomes who we are as a man.

 

[Hillsage]

You see, I tink that our imagination plays a much more significant part in everything than people give it credit for. I tried to talk about this on another forum once and they kept on with the same scripture, the heart is evil and wicked above all things, so...crush your imagination. I don't buy that. It depends on what you think about, what you dwell on, what you meditate on, are they evil thoughts? Then evil will get into your heart. Are they good thoughts? Then you will walk the Lord's path because out of the abundance of the heart (Whatever it is full of (!!) will overfllow into my mouth, or the mouth speaks.

So the imagination is a good thing, but yes, we have to control our thoughts. To dwell on lust or something evil would be detrimental to our heart. Better to be submersed in scripture 12 hours a day instead of 12 hours of porn. (Not that I am in to porn but many are). My last porn was the Playboy magazines under my bed when I was about 10 years old lol.

What we think about we dwell on. What we dwell on we connect with. What we connect with gets into our heart and becomes who we are as a man

I've heard that Jeremiah verse for years being used just like you did.

JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

My problem with that was this; what do you do with this verse in the NT?

MAT 12:34-35 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. :35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

You share that it brought you to the same conclusion I finally came to. When I heard that verse in Jeremiah which was being 'beat to death'. With the light of the NT, I went back to the OT to search out those 2 Hebrew words have different renderings.

6121 Heb "deceitful" `aqob: in the orig. sense, a knoll (as swelling up); in the denom. sense (trans.) fraudulent or (intrans.) track: crooked, deceitful, POLLUTED.

0605 "wicked" 'anash: to be frail, feeble, or (fig.) melancholy: incurable, SICK, woeful

So now re-read that same verse and tell me if scripture doesn't support OT and NT agreement.

JER 17:9 The heart is POLLUTED above all things, and desperately SICK: who can know it?

Yes, a polluted and sick heart, how did it get that way? Also, who can know that subconscious soul/mind of man? I believe it is the spirit man that dwells in us. IOW the spirit of Christ,. That is the spirit that will help you know the things of God, but only IF, IF, IF you have truly been born again AND not just raised up in a church or denomination where the 'religious spirit' is the one who knows your mind best, because he has been the one who programmed your conscious soul/head brain.

1CO 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Ss-pirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the s-pirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I'm not sure about where the IMAGINATION comes from. Any scripture to back your opinion?

 

[MA2444]

I've heard that Jeremiah verse for years being used just like you did.

JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

My problem with that was this; what do you do with this verse in the NT?

MAT 12:34-35 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. :35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

You share that it brought you to the same conclusion I finally came to. When I heard that verse in Jeremiah which was being 'beat to death'. With the light of the NT, I went back to the OT to search out those 2 Hebrew words have different renderings.

6121 Heb "deceitful" `aqob: in the orig. sense, a knoll (as swelling up); in the denom. sense (trans.) fraudulent or (intrans.) track: crooked, deceitful, POLLUTED.

0605 "wicked" 'anash: to be frail, feeble, or (fig.) melancholy: incurable, SICK, woeful

So now re-read that same verse and tell me if scripture doesn't support OT and NT agreement.

JER 17:9 The heart is POLLUTED above all things, and desperately SICK: who can know it?

Yes, a polluted and sick heart, how did it get that way? Also, who can know that subconscious soul/mind of man? I believe it is the spirit man that dwells in us. IOW the spirit of Christ,. That is the spirit that will help you know the things of God, but only IF, IF, IF you have truly been born again AND not just raised up in a church or denomination where the 'religious spirit' is the one who knows your mind best, because he has been the one who programmed your conscious soul/head brain.

1CO 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Ss-pirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the s-pirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I'm not sure about where the IMAGINATION comes from. Any scripture to back your opinion?

You said a mouthful! And...I think I do have a scripture or two, gimme a few...

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you say? (topic link below)

Is Revenge a Sin?

/

 

[Ziggy]

You see, I tink that our imagination plays a much more significant part in everything than people give it credit for. I tried to talk about this on another forum once and they kept on with the same scripture, the heart is evil and wicked above all things, so...crush your imagination. I don't buy that. It depends on what you think about, what you dwell on, what you meditate on, are they evil thoughts? Then evil will get into your heart. Are they good thoughts? Then you will walk the Lord's path because out of the abundance of the heart (Whatever it is full of (!!) will overfllow into my mouth, or the mouth speaks.

So the imagination is a good thing, but yes, we have to control our thoughts. To dwell on lust or something evil would be detrimental to our heart. Better to be submersed in scripture 12 hours a day instead of 12 hours of porn. (Not that I am in to porn but many are). My last porn was the Playboy magazines under my bed when I was about 10 years old lol.

What we think about we dwell on. What we dwell on we connect with. What we connect with gets into our heart and becomes who we are as a man.

When you consider the parables Jesus spoke. You have to use your imagination to picture what he is saying.
I think it's when we imagine our own ideas..
I was driving home from the hospital today and I was thinking about the Goddess Diana. And the whole world went after this one.
Why? What was their reasoning? What was the purpose? What was her function?
What did they imagine this Dianna was capable of doing for them?

So imagination can work for good or evil. I agree with meditating. Thinking about, pondering something.
But when those imaginations manifesr physically into something that opposes God, like swords and guns, then we went too far.
We should of stuck with bows and arrows.
Actually we shouldn't have imagined anything that would take the life of another.
So with imagination goes intentions. What do you intend to do with the imaginations?

I have a post somewhere, I don't remember where, not long ago maybe a week or two, where I was connecting the Id, Ego, and Superego
If I see it again, I'll link it. But it had to do with Man's spirit (Ego) vs God's Spirit (Superego) and the Id which is the instinct, or base.

In the ego psychology model of the psyche, the id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual desires; the superego plays the critical and moralizing role; and the ego is the organized, realistic agent that mediates between the instinctual desires of the id and the critical superego

So we begin with instinct, food, water, survival. That's the Id. Like the flesh just doing what it needs to survive.
The superego is where the critical morals are, the shall and shall not's. To me this is the Spirit of God leading us.
But the ego is our own desires and wants that come between God's spirit and the body of flesh.
It's this animosity between doing God's will and your own will.

I'm not much into psychology but I did have to take a course in Psych 101 years ago when I was trying to get a degree in business management. Business got in the way of education as I had to decide if I wanted to keep my job or go to school.
Not enough hours in the day for both, plus raising a family.
But for some reason this teaching of Freud stuck with me over the last 4 decades lol.

I believe God plants little seeds of truth everywhere, it's just how we apply it that matters.
Whether it's for God's will or our own diploma, lol

So the imagination would fall in either the ego or the superego depending if the image in the mind leans towards God or Man's will.

How can you read without imagination? Everything I read forms a picture in my mind.
My last husband couldn't do this. He could read a manual on engines and know exactly what to do.
But when it came to imagination he couldn't apply the pictures to the words.
I think they call that an analytical mind. And I have an emperical mind?

Analytical
as in reasonable
according to the rules of logic
vs.
Emperical
as in observational
based on observation or experience

I had to google it, lol

Funny how some minds think alike and others are worlds apart. LOL
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

What do you say? (topic link below)

Is Revenge a Sin?

/

I read it both ways:

Eze 25:15
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the Philistines have dealt by revenge, and have taken vengeance with a despiteful heart, to destroy it for the old hatred;

2Co 7:11
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

2Co 10:6
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

So, in the first verse despiteful heart and old hatred.. these aren't good to begin with.

The second verse, I'm not sure if Paul isn't being somewhat sarcastic. They approved themselves. Are we supposed to be approving ourselves or seeking God's approval?

Need more context for the 3rd one.

2Co 10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Co 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

So revenge if done to others by our own desires I believe is sin.
But revenge that is done inwardly and through God's spirit, is not.
Flesh vs spirit. Outward vs inward.

Depends on how it's applied.

That's how I read it.
Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

I read it both ways:

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)

If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

/

 

[Ziggy]

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God.
For us, but not for God?

Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to?
Many would bristle at that question. Why?

We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly behavior. (Matthew 5:44-48)

If revenge is a sin, then perhaps we are misunderstanding this scripture about the wrath of God.
(notice verse 21) Overcome evil with good.

Romans 12:18-21 NIV
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath,
for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[b]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

/

David talks about God taking revenge on his enemies for him.

I don't believe God is vengeful, I believe he uses Justice. But God's Justice is also merciful. A just weight, a right measure, balancing of the scales.

And the way God applies His justice is usually to allow us to walk ourselves off the nearest cliff.
But man applies their own ideas what justice and revenge looks like to them and then they project those thoughts onto God.

So, when I read the Bible. I believe every word in it is true. Even the ones that God himself don't agree with.
What I mean is, God himself through the prophets even speaks of people saying things he never said, like passing children through the fire, or why are you treading my courts with sacrifices.
He even says he never said some things and yet we see it written that God said.
So how do we separate who said what?

You have to get to know God.

I show you one that bothers me all the time. Because I don't believe God said what is says God says.
It's regarding Jacob and Esau.

I don't have any problem with the book of Malachi, I just state that for the record. But in the opening verses it says:

Mal 1:1
The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
Mal 1:2
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

So I go back to the origen.

Gen 25:28
And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

So this is also explained in Romans:

Rom 9:10
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

God never said to Rebecca that he hated Esau and loved Jacob. It was the burden of the word of the Lord that Malachi was writing.
And the love and hate began with Jacob and Rebecca.

So is this to say that God has no mercy or compassion for Esau even though he was born according to the will of God?
Because God purposed the elder to serve the younger does this mean God had to hate Esau for this to happen?


Something don't sound right.

Jer 2:8
The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

So I believe every word in the bible is true, but not everyone who wrote the words in the bible were truthful.
And if you do some digging you eventually find the truth.

In the end of Jacobs life both Esau and Jacob came together and mourned their father.

Gen 35:29
And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.

God gave Esau land for a possesion:

Deu 2:4
And command thou the people, saying, Ye are to pass through the coast of your brethren the children of Esau, which dwell in Seir; and they shall be afraid of you: take ye good heed unto yourselves therefore:
Deu 2:5
Meddle not with them; for I will not give you of their land, no, not so much as a foot breadth; because I have given mount Seir unto Esau for a possession.

Jos 24:4
And I gave unto Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave unto Esau mount Seir, to possess it; but Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.

But then we come to this...

 

[Ziggy]

Oba 1:6
How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!
Oba 1:7
All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.
Oba 1:8
Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
Oba 1:9
And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
Oba 1:10
For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
Oba 1:11
In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
Oba 1:12
But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
Oba 1:13
Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
Oba 1:14
Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

What did Esau do that was worse than what happened between Israel and say Benjamin?

Jdg 20:12
And the tribes of Israel sent men through all the tribe of Benjamin, saying, What wickedness is this that is done among you?
Jdg 20:13
Now therefore deliver us the men, the children of Belial, which are in Gibeah, that we may put them to death, and put away evil from Israel. But the children of Benjamin would not hearken to the voice of their brethren the children of Israel:
Jdg 20:14
But the children of Benjamin gathered themselves together out of the cities unto Gibeah, to go out to battle against the children of Israel.

Jdg 20:18
And the children of Israel arose, and went up to the house of God, and asked counsel of God, and said, Which of us shall go up first to the battle against the children of Benjamin? And the LORD said, Judah shall go up first.
Jdg 20:20
And the men of Israel went out to battle against Benjamin; and the men of Israel put themselves in array to fight against them at Gibeah.
Jdg 20:21
And the children of Benjamin came forth out of Gibeah, and destroyed down to the ground of the Israelites that day twenty and two thousand men.

Did God hate Benjamin?

Paul himself was of the tribe of Benjamin.

So I'm confused about the wording of Esau have I hated, seeing scripture tells us that Jacob loved Esau.
And it was Jacob and Rachel that devised plans against Esau to begin with. Supplanted

The story gets curiouser and curiouser..

Gen 27:34
And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.
Gen 27:35
And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.
Gen 27:36
And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me?
Gen 27:37
And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son?
Gen 27:38
And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.
Gen 27:39
And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
Gen 27:40
And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
Gen 27:41
And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

And then:
Isa 58:6
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:9
Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

trying to find the truth and rightly dividing the word is something that takes time and study.
Somethings are written so you can see the truth, and some things are written so you can see the lies.
But unless you know God and his Spirit, His character if you will, You end up reading with eyes of flesh and carnal knowledge and that's as far as it goes. But you have to dig deeper.
Maybe I haven't seen enough yet to settle it in my own heart, so I keep digging and praying until it becomes clear.

I'm not always right you know.. LOL
Sometimes I'm way out in left field. And the more I dig the more is uncovered, the more questions I have, lol

I think to say with a definate yea or nay without really thrashing it out is negligent.
And sometimes I think it's better to do the digging for yourself and let the Spirit guide you.
Everyone has there own ears to hear as God gives them to hear. What's good for the goose, isn't always the same for the gander.
You might need to hear something different at that moment in time. And with time the hearing can change to hear other things.

So this is my method and it suits me

Hugs

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't believe God is vengeful

Romans 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

 

[Ziggy]

Romans 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

So I see God's vengence the way Solomon and Jesus described it.

Pro 25:21
If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
Pro 25:22
For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

Mat 5:43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luk 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

The power of Love, the power to Do Good, and the power of Prayer.
These are the weapons of vengence we are given, but the power of those weapons comes from God. He will repay.

And it is very enticing when the world throws obstacles in your way for you to want to take up your own weapons and fight fire with fire.
But as Jesus told the sons of thunder, ye know not what spirit ye are of.
And I'm working to get to know better which side I'm on.

When the children in the wilderness were whining because they was hungry and was tempting God,
God didn't withold food or water from them. He gave them meat until it killed them.
Psa 78:25
Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
Psa 78:26
He caused an east wind to blow in the heaven: and by his power he brought in the south wind.
Psa 78:27
He rained flesh also upon them as dust, and feathered fowls like as the sand of the sea:
Psa 78:28
And he let it fall in the midst of their camp, round about their habitations.
Psa 78:29
So they did eat, and were well filled: for he gave them their own desire;
Psa 78:30
They were not estranged from their lust. But while their meat was yet in their mouths,
Psa 78:31
The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
Psa 78:32
For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.
Psa 78:33
Therefore their days did he consume in vanity, and their years in trouble.

I think I figured out what this Angel's food was that God fed them.

Psa 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

God gave them what they desired, what their lust desired.
And the manna they recieved from God, is not the manna we recieve from Jesus.
Theirs couldn't keep them from death, Jesus' gives us life.

Is God vengeful? I think he gives people exactly what they desire and deserve.
Is this vengence?
Maybe..

First God gave them mercy and peace and when they were not satisfied he gave them oppression and war.
Not because he chose it for them, but because they chose it for themselves.

That's how I see it.
Hugs