What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Romans 8:29 - 30
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5
having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Ephesians 1:11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
So it appears we were predetermined to be conformed to the image of God, To be adopted as his son, and to recieve an inheritance.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Romans 3: the wage of sin is death, The gift of God is life.
Is 59: Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened,
That it cannot save;
Nor His ear heavy,
That it cannot hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.
Do you think you are more worthy than any other person who has sinned? God demands a punishment for sin, He came to pay that price. do you think if we reject his salvation. he will give us a free pass?
I'll try again.
I'm not planning to continue this discussion. Nor other discussions. But if you want to discuss some passage of Scripture, this one, another one, post the passage, post your comment or question, and a new conversation will begin, based on a particular passage in the Bible. We can look at what it says, we can look at the grammar and word usage, we can have a discussion of a particular passage, and to see exactly what it says.
Concerning predestination as used in this passage, I've already answered what that means.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I did not guess, I was asked a question and responded.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
God has a plan for each of us, if you are calling that predestination. Perhaps his plan for John Doe is to be a concert pianist. Perhaps the plan depends on John walking with the Lord.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
It would be foolish to turn down God's offer of salvation. Still, is eternal torture a just sentence?
Just tangentially, I was asking God why one is called a "wage" (death in Adam--as a result of his trespass, we were born naturally slaves to sin, leading to our "paycheck" of death), but the other one is called a "gift" (eternal life in Christ--as a result of Christ's obedience, we who are born again are naturally slaves to God, leading to holiness, and then eternal life due us... as a "gift").
I think, here, the idea is that Sin "pays" us death ("him who had the power of death"), whereas God "gives" us life (what He "has"--"If anyone has this world's goods, but does not share them with a brother in need, how does God's love abide in Him?", but God gave what He "had")--these are two different sources (like Adam was told "you'll die if you sin"--death comes from bowing to Sin, bc Sin "pays" you what Sin has). Is that coherent? But I wonder why one is a "paycheck" where the other is a "gift" when both are the result of works being worked in us by another and not ourselves (eg, "If I do what I disagree with, it is no longer I who sin but Sin in me").
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@Eternally Grateful Maybe the difference is that Adam did nothing to be alive, but he did do something to die?
But how does that correspond to our context when the explanation for our having been "gifted" eternal life is not on those grounds, but on "being found in Him", where good works are being worked in us (Ro 8:2), and we're being repaid (as a "gift") eternal life for the resulting holiness?
Maybe because Adam's initial state was given to him, Adam having done nothing to effect it, whereas his death was effected by his deeds--inferring that his initial state (with regard to how he was righteous, which was how he could know God/have spiritual life, before his sins separated him from God, before his death) was already "God Is Our Righteousness" (Jer 23:6), which Christ restores?
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Yes.
We can never lose what we did not work for. If God can gift us his Sabbath and irrevocable eternal saving grace,he can insure we keep it. Just as he said. Eternalife is eternal salvation.
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
Wages = punishment. It's the punishment you're rightly owed for sin.
Salvation is a gift is because Jesus paid the price for that sin which was rightly owed to you - Jesus stood before all the wrath of God in your stead so you didn't have to.
You know your sin was paid in full and can be assured all is accomplished because Christ rose again from the dead (if He had any sin in Him He would not have risen victorious over death after paying the price for sin)
So wages = punishment
Gift = Jesus Christ, without spot or blemish, took the punishment for us so that we might be saved. His righteousness, without spot or blemish, is our righteous before God, and because we didn't earn it, it's a gift from God.
But maybe I should shut up? Lol..
No, there's another potential reason for the apparent discrepancy: "predestined" is not being defined correctly, and/or it has dynamics (whose "outline" can be groped for and detected in all those passages warning believers of the potential of falling away) that we are unaware of (which, fishing for those, was the reason I opened this thread) or are not considering, or are refusing to consider. We've discussed this before--when someone's name is blotted out of God's Book, for sinning, their righteousness is forgotten, so it is as though they never were saved (so it is still true that "if they were of us, they would have remained with us").
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I was referring to the language used in Ro 5,6, and the reason eternal life is afforded us (referred to as a "gift") there is in response to our natural state/gift of slavery to God in Christ that results in holiness.
So you don't think Sin paid us death, but it was God? But also satan has to ask God to do anything, so, in a roundabout way, as with Job ("you moved Me to destroy him without cause"), it always comes back to God. I would think of Sin as the one "paying" us, not God (though it ultimately goes back to God).
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