What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[Lambano]

What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?​

I live my daily life trusting that what I do and think and say DOES matter. The moral choices I make in this life are mine, and God will one day hold me accountable for them.

But I am also aware that God is also a player in this game, and He "sees the end from the beginning". And He carries the bigger stick.

I maintain that both of these views are Biblical. We'll see how this works out in real life.

 

[GracePeace]

What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?​

I live my daily life trusting that what I do and think and say DOES matter. The moral choices I make in this life are mine, and God will one day hold me accountable for them.

But I am also aware that God is also a player in this game, and He "sees the end from the beginning". And He carries the bigger stick.

I maintain that both of these views are Biblical. We'll see how this works out in real life.

I think that's called "compatibility"?

So, does your awareness of God's involvement, and His having more "weight", give you a peace and a confidence? Also, what does that have to do with predestination? LOL

 

[Stumpmaster]

What is predestination?

How is predestination brought to bear upon your life? What evidence is there that you believe it? How has it affected your life, or how does it affect yourself life?

If it doesn't affect your life, would you say it's good that your life remains unaffected by Biblical doctrine?

I would like to hear from both sides (Monergists and Synergists).

Please make an effort to keep all discussion on topic and try to refrain from "flaming" other users who will disagree with you.

Our humanly volitional behaviour leads to divinely predestined consequences

 

[Lambano]

I think that's called "compatibility"?

So, does your awareness of God's involvement, and His having more "weight", give you a peace and a confidence? Also, what does that have to do with predestination? LOL

You made me look it up. Okay, the term is Compatibilism.

As I see space-time as God's own creation, with God standing outside it, God can manipulate circumstances inside space-time in order to make things pan out the way He wants, while still maintaining human responsibility and meaning.

Peace and confidence comes down to trust. That faith thing. But it's also important to believe your life has MEANING.

 

[GracePeace]

Our humanly volitional behaviour leads to divinely predestined consequences

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I would be apt to believe this (and there is a lot more substance I could add to the argument), excepting for the fact that it says those who are born of God are not born of the will of man... unless you argue that in order to become a child of God you have to put your will aside and cooperate with God?

 

[GracePeace]

You made me look it up. Okay, the term is Compatibilism.

As I see space-time as God's own creation, with God standing outside it, God can manipulate circumstances inside space-time in order to make things pan out the way He wants, while still maintaining human responsibility and meaning.

Peace and confidence comes down to trust. That faith thing.

OK I am trying out this "trust" thing. Jesus says, "You were with from the beginning", "In the beginning was the Word..." and "No one can snatch them out of My hand"--dollars to donuts, trust will bear more fruit.

 

[BlessedPeace]

What is predestination?

How is predestination brought to bear upon your life? What evidence is there that you believe it? How has it affected your life, or how does it affect yourself life?

If it doesn't affect your life, would you say it's good that your life remains unaffected by Biblical doctrine?

I would like to hear from both sides (Monergists and Synergists).

Please make an effort to keep all discussion on topic and try to refrain from "flaming" other users who will disagree with you.

I find I pay attention to how events in my present day link to something similar to my past. It's fascinating actually.

It's as if we repeat lessons we are suppose to learn until we do learn that lesson.

If I pay strict attention, I notice that. I'll recall the event and what I said or did when something very similar comes around. Then I'll change my response from earlier to address the new event,lesson. This far I've yet to have those lessons repeat again. I guess I got the point.

 

[GracePeace]

I find I pay attention to how events in my present day link to something similar to my past. It's fascinating actually.

It's as if we repeat lessons we are suppose to learn until we do learn that lesson.

If I pay strict attention, I notice that. I'll recall the event and what I said or did when something very similar comes around. Then I'll change my response from earlier to address the new event,lesson. This far I've yet to have those lessons repeat again. I guess I got the point.

Is that "predestination" related?

 

[Lambano]

OK I am trying out this "trust" thing. Jesus says, "You were with from the beginning", "In the beginning was the Word..." and "No one can snatch the out of My hand"--dollars to donuts, this will bear more fruit.

The flip side is that you don't know what decisions were made "before the foundation of the world". If your coin came up "tails", you're screwed, and any trust you have will be betrayed. Sucks to be you. You're gonna burn, baby, burn.

 

[GracePeace]

The flip side is that you don't know what decisions were made "before the foundation of the world". If your coin came up "tails", you're screwed, and any trust you have will be betrayed. Sucks to be you. You're gonna burn, baby, burn.

Well, if you know God, that's eternal life, and you had to be really one of His sheep to get to that point, and it sounds like John is saying that's a permanent thing--not only forward through time, but even back at the beginning of time, you have, in some sense, always been Christ's, and you always will be.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Is that "predestination" related?

I think so. We are told by God that he predestined all things for the purposes of his will and plan.

And we were admonished by him in how to pray in what is known as the Our Father prayer."...thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."

 

[Lambano]

Well, if you know God, that's eternal life, and you had to be really one of His sheep to get to that point, and it sounds like John is saying that's a permanent thing--not only forward through time, but even back at the beginning of time, you have, in some sense, always been Christ's, and you always will be.

Ah, but there's always a flip side, and in this case it's Matthew 7:21-23. Did the ones who cried, "Lord, Lord!" think that they knew Christ?

So nope, there's no peace and confidence in believing in predestination. There's only trusting Jesus.

 

[GracePeace]

Ah, but there's always a flip side, and in this case it's Matthew 7:21-23. Did the ones who cried, "Lord, Lord!" think that they knew Christ?

So nope, there's no peace and confidence in believing in predestination. There's only trusting Jesus.

1. Yeah, except Jesus says we know how to identify those guys: a bad tree bears bad fruit, and those false prophets were living in immorality, hatred, and all kinds of sin, including boasting (what other reason was there for them to be performing miracles if not for Christ?).

2. I do not know what "predestination", as presented in Paul's letters, is--Peter says he's hard to understand. That is why I am asking. I know that the word predestination is there, but I cannot reconcile the conventional understanding of that word with the rest of his teachings.
Those things I said all come from John's Gospel--I'm just talking about stuff John says right now. It really has helped me in the past to just accept stuff it says on face value. I used to get terrible visitations from satan worshippers (I first encountered them in a chat room they put in the Christian section, and I was offended by it, called "Lucifer's Light"). I just accepted something in John's Gospel on face value, without provisos and attempts to "reconcile" it with the rest of Scripture, and that basically ended 7 years of them visiting or threatening to visit me EVERY NIGHT in my dreams and then after I awoke. John's Gospel is powerful!

 

[GracePeace]

I think so. We are told by God that he predestined all things for the purposes of his will and plan.

And we were admonished by him in how to pray in what is known as the Our Father prayer."...thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven."

So, in your understanding, "predestination" is the conventional meaning of it? And does it give you peace?

 

[GracePeace]

So nope, there's no peace and confidence in believing in predestination. There's only trusting Jesus.

...but if Christ is the Word He teaches, and if He teaches you were always with Him "from the beginning", and He will not lose one, and no one can snatch you out of His hand... wouldn't trusting Christ mean trusting those things? IF He meant those things? lol

 

[GracePeace]

I just accepted something in John's Gospel on face value, without provisos and attempts to "reconcile" it with the rest of Scripture, and that basically ended 7 years of them visiting or threatening to visit me EVERY NIGHT in my dreams and then after I awoke. John's Gospel is powerful!

@Lambano Literally, God had to put me through that to get me to believe the truth, because it was torment--He turned the heat up to FORCE me to accept and confess the truth. LOL!

 

[Lambano]

2. I do not know what "predestination", as presented in Paul's letters, is--Peter says he's hard to understand. That is why I am asking. I know that the word predestination is there, but I cannot reconcile the conventional understanding of that word with the rest of his teachings.

One of the commentators, I can't remember which one, said Paul looks at "proorizo" as God's overall plan, but then we get bogged down with things like the pagan concept of Fate and the Calvinist/Arminian debates. The Bible still teaches that God has a plan, but it also teaches that we are responsible for our decision. Sometimes you have to say, "I don't know how this is going to work out" and trust God to take care of you. But that's not what you're looking for.

 

[GracePeace]

One of the commentators, I can't remember which one, said Paul looks at "proorizo" as God's overall plan, but then we get bogged down with things like the pagan concept of Fate and the Calvinist/Arminian debates. The Bible still teaches that God has a plan, but it also teaches that we are responsible for our decision. Sometimes you have to say, "I don't know how this is going to work out" and trust God to take care of you. But that's not what you're looking for.

I do not deny we will be repaid according to our works, but I think what I'm saying is that trusting God goes ahead of all of our decisions, and empowers us to make the right ones, as Christ says, "Sanctify them in the truth. Thy Word is truth." "You are clean through the Word I've spoken to you." So if we are trusting God, that will make us righteous--give us grace.

 

[Lambano]

...but if Christ is the Word He teaches, and if He teaches you were always with Him "from the beginning", and He will not lose one, and no one can snatch you out of His hand... wouldn't trusting Christ mean trusting those things? IF He meant those things? lol

True, trusting Jesus also means trusting that He won't let me go, and if I get lost, he'll look for me. But you also have the biblical warnings against apostasy in Hebrews and elsewhere that demand to be taken seriously. Always that flip side.

 

[GracePeace]

True, trusting Jesus also means trusting that He won't let me go, and if I get lost, he'll look for me. But you also have the biblical warnings against apostasy in Hebrews and elsewhere that demand to be taken seriously. Always that flip side.

Yup, but I'm playing a game of not reconciling John with the rest of Scripture right now--"What if all I had to go on was John's writings--his Gospel, his Epistles, his Revelation--what would I believe?" I'm seeing things from a different perspective for the moment, to see if it bears good fruit (it already has). I've already tried the other way.

If I lived in the ancient world, and I only knew John the Apostle, would that be sufficient?