What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[Bob Estey]

My comment was only meant to demonstrate a reason I don't accept the conventional understanding of "predestine"; I'm still looking for peoples' opinions on "predestine".

Or maybe I didn't find your "answers" particularly informative or helpful?

Once again, you said, "Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, 'predestined' to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief."

I tried to explain that to you, and your reply was, "Just asking what people think 'predestined' means, and do not need or want unrelated info or conversation."

I'm not getting paid to teach you what I have learned.

 

[GracePeace]

I do not quite know what to make of the teaching of "predestination".

If it is the case that people are foreknown, therefore predestined, therefore called, therefore believe, this, taken in a vacuum, would go hand in hand with other Scriptural doctrines (you didn't choose Me, I chose you; I will lose none; no one can snatch them out of My hand ; if they were of us, they would've remained with us); but, since this seemingly conflicts with the teaching that believers, whom God has "grafted in" due to their faith (so they really have saving faith--they didn't "trick" God), can also become unbelievers and be cut off (Ro 11:17+), could it not be the case that the "predestined" language and doctrines apply to those who are believers, yet it somehow no longer applies to those who fall away?

This would agree with my position that the fact that God "forgets righteousness" (Ez), as mentioned in other threads, manifests itself in God blotting names out of the Lamb's Book of Life, and, thus, their righteousness being "forgotten", it is as if they were never saved... leading to the paradox of "if they were of us they would've remained with us" being preserved by the fact that they are accounted as having never been saved in the first place (if they are "blotted out", "forgotten").

However, this would seem to undermine the certitude , the confidence (eg, expressed by Monergist types here), the entire effect, that, aside from it actually being true, believing in the teaching of predestination seems to be aimed at producing.

 

[GracePeace]

Once again, you said, "Paul warns those who had believed unto justification and salvation (who were, therefore, 'predestined' to that) that they themselves could be cut off for unbelief."

I tried to explain that to you, and your reply was, "Just asking what people think 'predestined' means, and do not need or want unrelated info or conversation."

I'm not getting paid to teach you what I have learned.

You are free to not engage. I'm not dying to hear your thoughts.

 

[Bob Estey]

You are free to not engage. I'm not dying to hear your thoughts.

When I want to learn from someone, I humbly ask.

 

[GracePeace]

When I want to learn from someone, I humbly ask.

Go away.

 

[ScottA]

I don't know why only Monergist types have found this question easily answerable, whereas Synergist types have come out with guns blazing, and typically arrogantly trying to attack a view I never espoused.

If the light of truth is thought to be an "attack"--you should probably close your eyes and only open them ever so slowly. In which case it is not advisable to speculate or teach or make accusations...at least until you have seen the whole truth without going up in smoke.

 

[Bob Estey]

Go away.

Okay, but let me have the last word:

If you want people to teach you, ask them, humbly, to do so.

 

[GracePeace]

If the light of truth is thought to be an "attack"--you should probably close your eyes and only open them ever so slowly. In which case it is not advisable to speculate or teach or make accusations...at least until you have seen the whole truth without going up in smoke.

Lol I merely asked for peoples' opinions on predestination, and how it affects their lives--because it (what ever it means--I'm not saying it means anything in particular) is found in Scripture--yet people come in thinking I am holding to a particular view, and attack that view, rather than just describe what they make of the teaching and sharing how it affects their lives.

There is no right or wrong answer--I'm just collecting opinions.

 

[ScottA]

Lol I merely asked for peoples' opinions on predestination, and how it affects yourself lives--because it (what ever it means) is found in Scripture--yet people come in thinking I am holding to a particular view, and attack that view, rather than just describe what they make of the teaching and how it affects their lives.

There is no right or wrong answer--I'm just collecting opinions.

Okay, that's fine.

Mine was not an attack, nor was it opinion.

 

[Bob Estey]

If the light of truth is thought to be an "attack"--you should probably close your eyes and only open them ever so slowly. In which case it is not advisable to speculate or teach or make accusations...at least until you have seen the whole truth without going up in smoke.

He keeps saying that he's just collecting opinions. It seems to me he's offering a few of his own.

 

[GracePeace]

Okay, that's fine.

Mine was not an attack, nor was it opinion.

I don't remember you even sharing how it (whatever it means) affects your life.

 

[marks]

I don't know why only the Monergist types have found this question easily answerable, whereas the Synergist types have come in with guns blazing trying to "debunk" me (when I'd put no definition forth). "Methinks they doth protest much."

Thanks.

Are you thinking of me as monergist? Like Calvinism?

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

He keeps saying that he's just collecting opinions. It seems to me he's offering a few of his own.

1. Go away. I had let you have the last word.

2. I shared my reason for having begun this thread--ie, my inability to reach coherence on the topic. I'm allowed to share that tangent in my own thread.

 

[ScottA]

I don't remember you even sharing how it (whatever it means) affects your life.

Knowing the truth regarding this topic gives me peace, a light unto my path.

 

[GracePeace]

Are you thinking of me as monergist? Like Calvinism?

Much love!

I know you've denied it in the past, but you're basically Monergist (a general term--perhaps not all Monergists are Calvinists, whereas all Calvinists would be Monergists) from what I can tell.

 

[GracePeace]

Knowing the truth regarding this topic gives me peace, a light unto my path.

OK thank you.

Would you please briefly share what your understanding of "predestined" is?

 

[marks]

If the foreknowledge precedes and precipitates the faith unto justification, isn't it causation of faith, not only addressing a destiny for believers (conformity to Christ's image)?

Yes, if foreknowledge precipitates the faith -

precipitate /prĭ-sĭp′ĭ-tāt″/

intransitive verb​

1. To cause to happen, especially suddenly or prematurely.
   "an announcement that precipitated a political crisis."

- then yes, it is causation of faith.

I would ask, where are you reading that knowing something ahead of time causes it to happen?

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

1. Go away. I had let you have the last word.

2. I shared my reason for having begun this thread--ie, my inability to reach coherence on the topic. I'm allowed to share that tangent in my own thread.

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to ScottA.

 

[marks]

I know you've denied it in the past, but you're basically Monergist (a general term--perhaps not all Monergists are Calvinists, whereas all Calvinists would be Monergists) from what I can tell.

News to me!

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

1. Go away. I had let you have the last word.

2. I shared my reason for having begun this thread--ie, my inability to reach coherence on the topic. I'm allowed to share that tangent in my own thread.

And if you have a tangent to share, I assume we are allowed to comment on your tangent.