Matthew 24

[rwb]

Christ did not tell them to look for the budding of the fig tree andall trees, but to his elect through the apostles.

The evil and adulterous generation of little serpents would increase greatly as this world comes to its end.

Christ didn't speak the parable of the fig tree that they might know when Christ would come again, that for certain! But He did tell His disciples living in the first century AD that when they saw new life growing on the fig tree (Israel in unbelief; remnant) as they preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, they would understand the Kingdom of God is NOT physical because it is a spiritual Kingdom that is found within whoever is born again through the Spirit of Christ in them.

It's true evil people will always be found in this age to the end of days. Yes, they shall wax greater and greater as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is preached unto all the nations of the world. But it was not the increase of evil people, especially near the end of the age that Christ wanted His disciples to be focused on. Christ wanted them and all His disciples to be focused on building the spiritual Kingdom of God through the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. As they and we see new disciples coming into the Kingdom of God they and we shall know the spiritual Kingdom of God, even though we cannot physically see it, is indeed growing and will continue to grow and finally be complete, despite the workers of evil, then the end of this age shall come.

Sir, you have it wrong. Jesus used the fig and all tree, to teach us when those trees bring to put forth buds then we all know that summer is nigh at hand~so likewise, when we see those things which Jesus said would come to pass in Matthew 24 up until he spoke those words of the budding of the trees, then KNOW his coming is very near, even at the doors.

I must run for an appointment....later

Sorry, but I do not agree! Christ was not giving this parable that they might know the second coming of Christ. This would not be until long after they are gone from this earth. How would new growth on fig trees and all trees be that comes year after year be a sign that we might know the nearness of Christ coming again? That makes no sense! He spoke the parable that they/we might know the spiritual Kingdom of God has not only come but is near/at hand to whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

What does make sense is telling them the first new life they would see would be on the fig tree (Israel) and all trees (Gentiles too) as they hear the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and come in to the spiritual Kingdom of God through the Spirit in them. That's why Christ wanted them to take their focus off a physical city, temple and buildings, because that which is physical would not last.

 

[rwb]

There's a problem with that understanding~it fails the test of the context under consideration.

Go back and consider carefully Jesus' words starting at verse 5 down to verse 25. Who is under consideration in those verses for the main part? False prophets and their followers. Also, who are under consideration after verse 34? Read verses 37-51. Especially so 37-39.

Thank you for your consideration of those scriptures, I pray they would help you to get a better understanding of the message in Matthew 24,25, etc.

How does warning the disciples of evil all around and within as they take the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to all the nations of the world, change the fact that the "chosen generation" shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled? Your problem is that you're trying to force the Olivet Discourse to be only about the second coming of Christ. But these signs and warnings of physical assault coming against the Kingdom of God are written that the Church throughout time would know the spiritual Kingdom of God has come and continues to grow long as believers are alive on earth to faithfully proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through the power of the Holy Spirit. There will always be "great tribulation" for any that are faithful to Christ, but we are not to despair because even under much affection and martyrdom, the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be complete through the Gospel. And after it has been preached unto all the nations of the world then the end will come when Christ shall come again and all will see the signs of His coming again.

 

[rwb]

Brother, I agree with most you said here except that the kingdom of God is within you.

I know where you take that phrase from, but if you go there and read the context carefully then you would never used that phrase again in this sense.


Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, and they demanded when the kingdom of God should come ~ follow Jesus' words carefully and you will see that he said it does not come with observation: neither shall they say, lo here! or, lo there, for the kingdom of God is within you...that is, within their very mist, in the person of Jesus Christ and his teachings concerning how to please God~Jesus certainly did not teach that it was within their hearts, but the kingdom of God was indeed within their very mist and they sought to killed the prince of glory for their hatred of his teachings, and his godly life living in the spiritual kingdom of God that all born again children of God live in by loving God and seeking to do his will. More on this later, maybe.

I agree, Jesus is not telling them they have the Kingdom of God within them. He is however telling them that is where the Kingdom of God is. If they or any man desires to see the Kingdom of God, we should not look for it to appear on this earth because it will not be a physical Kingdom, but a spiritual Kingdom. The way that man might know and enter the Kingdom of God they MUST be born again of the Spirit. That is how all of Christ's disciples KNOW the Kingdom of God that came with Christ is not in this world physical, and that message was especially important for first century Jewish disciples to know and believe, that they not become discouraged but continue in the faith.

If the Kingdom of God were merely in their midst, why is the only way to know and enter the Kingdom of God is to be born again of the Spirit? I know there are translations with apparent bias that have changed the Words of Scripture from "within you" to "within their midst". I will stick with the translations that write "within you" because the Spirit of Christ is "in you" and without the Spirit giving us life from above we can neither know the Kingdom of God nor enter it. IOW it is through the Spirit of Christ that we enter the Kingdom of God, not a physical Kingdom these Pharisees of Old hoped for, but a spiritual Kingdom we can only know and enter when we are born again.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Ronald, that's a true statement, yet, it is true also, that we all are here teaching what we believe God has revealed to us as his truth, so, our duty who profess to be his children, is to obey 1st John 4:1, and test them with the word of God to see if they are of God or not, on the particular subject under consideration.

We have to do better though, we have to be able to teach his "truths" not our truths via our understandings. You see, I had the same understanding as you for 30 plus years, but when God called me to reevaluate, because of an answered prayer as to why the church is so confused on al things end times, we have 100s of understandings of The Beast. the 144,000, the Harlot etc. and so as I prayed I got this from the holy spirit "Ron, you guys already know it all" and I knew instantly that God was telling me we the church rely on "MEN'S TRADITIONS" too much, so much so we could not see Hs truths because we had erected roadblocks that hindered His truths. So, I started forcing myself to never accept even a minor contradiction, I refused to leave a subject that did not make full sense until God gave me the answer,. and lo and behold, by wrestling with God, like Jacob, He always gave me the answers.

Like the 144,000 there is nowhere in the bible that says they are 144,000 Jewish preachers, its its become a factoid, when its just a code (144,000) for the 1/3 Jews who repent and flee Judea, look at the passage, its in between the 6 Seals which are Prophetic in nature only, not judgments, and the 7th seal over in Rev. 8 which brings us the 7 Trump Judgments. Now read Rev. 7 again, we see God says HOLD BACK the four winds (judgment) until the 144,000 are sealed, (protected in Christ) and HURT NOT, the Earth, Sea nor Trees until this happens (Two-witnesses get them to repent and the the flee Judea). So, what hurts the Earth, Seas and Trees? Well, the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments burn 1/3 of the worlds trees (which I think means the New World which is 1/3 of the Landmass on earth), it hits in the Sea in Trump #2 so it its obvious what is being held up, so the 144,000 (5 Million Jews = 1/3) are protected Jews, and we see in Rev. 12 h0w God protects them. So, why use a code? God did not want to give His full truths unto Satan ahead of time, thus Gd knew but Satan inly knew 1/3 not the real number. The number 12 = Fulness the number 10 = Completeness so 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 represents ALL Israel who repents, not 144,000, just like the 10 virgin brides represent the Complete Church right?

Matt. 24 was thus easy for me to overcome, instead of buying what even most preachers today say points unto the End Time Events, I saw it pointed unto the 1st Century Disciples fate. Verses 7-8 were throw away line by Jesus, he used those two verses to SHOW WHY verse 6 could not be the END TIMES, yet you and many others think verses 4-13 is all about the end times, its not. Now I agree, verses 15-31 are indeed End Time Events, but verses 4-13 were meant by Jesus as a survival guide for the Disciples and the Church.

Verses 4-6 is ONLY 70 AD Events, the end (70th week) is by and by. Verses 7-8 merely demonstrate that, verses 9-13 warn the Disciples of their coming deaths, and that they must endure until the end [of their lives] then in verse 14 we get the Rapture. Them immediately we go into the 70th week via vs 15 which happens 1290 days before the second coming, and 30 days before the Beast conquers Israel at the 1260 middle of the week event.

The IMMEDATELY AFTER in vs. 29 is pointing unto the Sun & Moon going dark, not Jesus' return in vs. 30 and 31 which is 1260 days after vs. 29, caused by an Asteroid strike, in the middle of the week. The Parable of the Fig Tree is also misdiagnosed by most people. They see THAT GENERATION as being the generation after Israel is reborn, so they count 40 and 70 years, but THAT GENERATION is juxtaposed against the Jews who see the LAST SIGN, go reread it. And who would that be? Well, the LAST SIGN is the Sun and Moon going dark in verse 29, then THAT GENERATION will see verses 30-31 come to pass 1260 days later. The Pre Trib. Rapture can be seen in verses 36-51.

Matt. 25 is the Wedding in Heaven, yes I think Matt. 24:36-51 may go with Matt. 25. There were no verses and chapters in the original texts, men added them in.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Sir, that's pure Jewish fables promoted mostly by the Scofield Reference bible that the fundamentalist of the Independent Baptist and Pentecostals have latched on to.

Watch for my post on 2nd Thess 2, later in the day and then add your comments if you desire.

Lol
Recent excavations are from scofield and baptists????
Those excavations are huge.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Anytime i hear "Scofield" or other dead men invoked by "experts" like yourself, it always follows the comic assumptions from thin air you guys feast on.
IOW your weak arguments are so anemic , you need some form of character belittlement to deflect.
Scofield????
That's your pillar?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

We have to do better though, we have to be able to teach his "truths" not our truths via our understandings. You see, I had the same understanding as you for 30 plus years, but when God called me to reevaluate, because of an answered prayer as to why the church is so confused on al things end times, we have 100s of understandings of The Beast. the 144,000, the Harlot etc. and so as I prayed I got this from the holy spirit "Ron, you guys already know it all" and I knew instantly that God was telling me we the church rely on "MEN'S TRADITIONS" too much, so much so we could not see Hs truths because we had erected roadblocks that hindered His truths. So, I started forcing myself to never accept even a minor contradiction, I refused to leave a subject that did not make full sense until God gave me the answer,. and lo and behold, by wrestling with God, like Jacob, He always gave me the answers.

Like the 144,000 there is nowhere in the bible that says they are 144,000 Jewish preachers, its its become a factoid, when its just a code (144,000) for the 1/3 Jews who repent and flee Judea, look at the passage, its in between the 6 Seals which are Prophetic in nature only, not judgments, and the 7th seal over in Rev. 8 which brings us the 7 Trump Judgments. Now read Rev. 7 again, we see God says HOLD BACK the four winds (judgment) until the 144,000 are sealed, (protected in Christ) and HURT NOT, the Earth, Sea nor Trees until this happens (Two-witnesses get them to repent and the the flee Judea). So, what hurts the Earth, Seas and Trees? Well, the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments burn 1/3 of the worlds trees (which I think means the New World which is 1/3 of the Landmass on earth), it hits in the Sea in Trump #2 so it its obvious what is being held up, so the 144,000 (5 Million Jews = 1/3) are protected Jews, and we see in Rev. 12 h0w God protects them. So, why use a code? God did not want to give His full truths unto Satan ahead of time, thus Gd knew but Satan inly knew 1/3 not the real number. The number 12 = Fulness the number 10 = Completeness so 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 represents ALL Israel who repents, not 144,000, just like the 10 virgin brides represent the Complete Church right?

Matt. 24 was thus easy for me to overcome, instead of buying what even most preachers today say points unto the End Time Events, I saw it pointed unto the 1st Century Disciples fate. Verses 7-8 were throw away line by Jesus, he used those two verses to SHOW WHY verse 6 could not be the END TIMES, yet you and many others think verses 4-13 is all about the end times, its not. Now I agree, verses 15-31 are indeed End Time Events, but verses 4-13 were meant by Jesus as a survival guide for the Disciples and the Church.

Verses 4-6 is ONLY 70 AD Events, the end (70th week) is by and by. Verses 7-8 merely demonstrate that, verses 9-13 warn the Disciples of their coming deaths, and that they must endure until the end [of their lives] then in verse 14 we get the Rapture. Them immediately we go into the 70th week via vs 15 which happens 1290 days before the second coming, and 30 days before the Beast conquers Israel at the 1260 middle of the week event.

The IMMEDATELY AFTER in vs. 29 is pointing unto the Sun & Moon going dark, not Jesus' return in vs. 30 and 31 which is 1260 days after vs. 29, caused by an Asteroid strike, in the middle of the week. The Parable of the Fig Tree is also misdiagnosed by most people. They see THAT GENERATION as being the generation after Israel is reborn, so they count 40 and 70 years, but THAT GENERATION is juxtaposed against the Jews who see the LAST SIGN, go reread it. And who would that be? Well, the LAST SIGN is the Sun and Moon going dark in verse 29, then THAT GENERATION will see verses 30-31 come to pass 1260 days later. The Pre Trib. Rapture can be seen in verses 36-51.

Matt. 25 is the Wedding in Heaven, yes I think Matt. 24:36-51 may go with Matt. 25. There were no verses and chapters in the original texts, men added them in.

This is pure baloney.
It is 144,000.
The bible authenticates it precisely.
12000 out of each of the 12 tribes.
You chose a random starting place and just wildly ascribed all kinds of stuff to it.

 

[Ritajanice]

I agree, Jesus is not telling them they have the Kingdom of God within them. He is however telling them that is where the Kingdom of God is. If they or any man desires to see the Kingdom of God, we should not look for it to appear on this earth because it will not be a physical Kingdom, but a spiritual Kingdom. The way that man might know and enter the Kingdom of God they MUST be born again of the Spirit. That is how all of Christ's disciples KNOW the Kingdom of God that came with Christ is not in this world physical, and that message was especially important for first century Jewish disciples to know and believe, that they not become discouraged but continue in the faith.

If the Kingdom of God were merely in their midst, why is the only way to know and enter the Kingdom of God is to be born again of the Spirit? I know there are translations with apparent bias that have changed the Words of Scripture from "within you" to "within their midst". I will stick with the translations that write "within you" because the Spirit of Christ is "in you" and without the Spirit giving us life from above we can neither know the Kingdom of God nor enter it. IOW it is through the Spirit of Christ that we enter the Kingdom of God, not a physical Kingdom these Pharisees of Old hoped for, but a spiritual Kingdom we can only know and enter when we are born again.

Wahooooo!!!....Praise the Lord!!!...full of spiritual knowledge and understanding....food to my soul/ heart/ Spirit.....Gods word spoken in his truth...not mans truth.

 

[covenantee]

I do believe the record that God gave of his Son, who was born in the likeness of sinful flesh, for sin and condemned sin in the flesh by his perfect obedience to the law of God in thoughts, words, and deeds from conception until death.

Why would anyone deny is truth? If they do, they are not of God, but have a antichrist spirit.

I probably believe it more than you, since I hold to Jesus' complex nature being fully God and fully man, conceived in time (two thousand years ago) not in eternity past. The great mystery of the Godhead is that Jesus is not only the Son of God who took on flesh, but that he is also the everlasting Father of all things per Isaiah 9:6. Enough on that subject, since it is not part of this thread.

"born in the likeness of sinful flesh"

Scripture?

Is that literal flesh?

Is that the same as "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"? 1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7

If so, why did you not simply quote those Scriptures?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

This is pure baloney.
It is 144,000.
The bible authenticates it precisely.
12000 out of each of the 12 tribes.
You chose a random starting place and just wildly ascribed all kinds of stuff to it.

Are the 10 Virgin Brides 10 women? Or does 10 = Completion? Look at Rev. 2:10 Smyrna will have 10 days of tribulation, it means they will have troubles for the Complete Church Age. John. 16:33 says all time on this earth is tribulation.

Now, do you think God is a Calvinist in thinking, I guess you might, sarcastically speaking, because God picking a PERFECT NUMBER should send up a red flag, we are the ones who have to accept the free gift, the Jews are the same, each man must work out his own salvation, yet you think God simply chose a PERFECT NUMBER, which makes zero sense. But since the book of Revelation is chock full of metaphors, codes and symmetry, the 144,000 being a CODE should make sense, to those who understand prophecy. The 10 in the 7 Headed Beast simply means the Complete E.U. reunited again, not 10. God uses 10 over and over for completion, the 10 commandments, the 10 virgin brides, the 10 plagues.

12 x 10 = Fulness x Completeness. What's the real number? Well., Zech. 13:8-9 tells it is 1/3 of all end time Jews and Jews simply means Judeans, and all 12 tribes had lived in Judea from the time the Assyrians toted off the Northern Kingdoms until Jesus' time and 70 AD. Then they were toted off as Jews and brought back as Jews but they are all 12 Tribes. So, we see in Zech. 13:8-9 that 1/3 of the Jews repent and then in the very next verse (go look at Zech. 14:1) we see the Day of the Lord ARRIVES, and Jerusalem gets conquered at the 1260 event by the A.C./Beast and we then see Jesus returns 1260 days later in vs. 3.

Its too funny you can understand the 10 Virgin Brides = the Complete Church but you can not see that the 144,000 = 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 which = the Complete Number of Jews who repent (5 million). And we know Elijah is sent back BEFORE the DOTL to get Israel to repent (Malachi 4:5).

I choose nothing, I have an Exegesis on Dan. 11 and 12 where I explain every verse, this led me to understand many, many things. Its hard work and prayer.

 

[Zao is life]

Question #1~"What does 70 A.D. have to do with Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 21?​

According to history, it was when the Jews and Jerusalem fell to the Romans. This event in history has absolutely nothing to do with the contents of Matthew 24, no more than it does with Genesis chapter one, or any other part of the scriptures. The reason why is this: there is very little said about Abraham's natural seed and their temple after the death of Jesus Christ, and the reason why is that God's purpose for that nation had ran its course, and his eternal purposes in Christ concerning Jews and Gentiles was on the brink of being revealed to the the apostles, and prophets and his saints, which were both Jews and Gentiles, a hidden mystery since the world begun.

I agree. Besides this, If we compare scripture with scripture we can piece this together so clearly. Luke tells us:

"Every day Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, but at night he went and stayed on the Mount of Olives." (Luke 21:37).

THE DAY OF THE OLIVET DISCOURSE

Location: In the temple courtyard.
Audience: scribes and Pharisees.
Subject: The coming destruction of the city and the temple.

In Matthew's gospel, Jesus introduces the subject of the destruction of the city and temple by opening with an announcement regarding the woe that was to come upon the scribes and Pharisees (Matthew 23:13-36). Then He tells them their house is going to be destroyed.

Immediately after this, Matthew 24:1-2 records the fact that when Jesus came out of the temple, He repeated to His disciples what He had just told the Pharisees regarding their house being left to them desolate (Matthew 23:37-39).
​

"Now as Jesus was going out of the temple courts and walking away, his disciples came to show him the temple buildings. And he said to them, " Do you see all these things? I tell you the truth, not one stone will be left on another. All will be torn down!" (Matthew 23:37-24:2).

"Every day Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, but at night he went and stayed on the Mount of Olives." (Luke 21:37).

After coming out of the temple Jesus then walked down the mountain, and crossed through the Kidron Valley to the Mount of Olives (which is opposite the Temple Mount), walked to the top, and sat down after reaching the top.

WHAT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT IS THE FIRST SUBJECT JESUS SPOKE ABOUT ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES

After He sat down on the Mount of Olives, Jesus' disciples asked Him when the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed, regarding which He had said that not one stone would be left upon another that would not be thrown down. They also asked Him about the sign of His coming and of the end of the Age,

but when He began to reply - and this is the first thing Jesus is recorded as having said after sitting down on the Mount of Olives -

instead of answering their question about that temple at Jerusalem, Jesus opens His answer by telling them about the tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament Temple were going to experience at the end of the Age, and this is the same in all three synoptic gospels (Luke 21:8-19; Mark 13:5-13; Matthew 24:4-14).

Again in all three synoptic gospels, Jesus closes the above discourse by talking about His coming at the end of the Age (Luke 21:25-28; Mark 13:24-27; Matthew 24:29-31).

In Matthew 24 the whole discourse from verse 9 onward is joined together by the words "and", "therefore", "but", "for" and "because".

I've noticed that there is a great amount of interpretation of scripture going on that is undertaken with the purpose of forcing scripture to comply with certain doctrines and eschatological models. And for some reason, those who argue with what you have been saying (about this part at least), simply seem to refuse to allow scripture to speak for itself.

The truth is, after sitting down on the Mount of Olives, Jesus said not one further word about the temple in Jerusalem - not even in Luke 21:20-24, where He mentions a coming destruction of Jerusalem but says nothing about the temple itself.

So I fully concur with what you have said about the subject - the actual subject - of the Lord's Olivet Discourse. It stares at us in black and white but many Christians simply stubbornly apply Jesus' words spoken on the Olivet Discourse, to a physical temple in Jerusalem, and to the 1st century A.D.​

 

[rwb]

Matthew 24 is a discourse given by Christ, concerning events that are signs showing believers that Christ's coming is at hand, and also warnings to the elect to help them to be prepared and ready for that day, and not be be over discouraged when these things are coming to pass, lest they faint and grow weary during those days. Those days will be a great testing period for all true believers, since they shall be overcome, and cast down, but not destroyed!

How was the coming of Christ at hand or even near since it has now been almost 2000 years? You're ignoring how "at hand" and "near" are defined in Scripture. In the same way "at hand" and "near" are not defined as some 30 years later, neither are they defined 2000 plus years later. It's for that reason that we know that Christ was not speaking of His coming again at the end of days. He is telling His disciples living in the first century AD the Kingdom of God is both "at hand" and "near" for whoever hears the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and believes on Christ for everlasting life.

Repeatedly Christ says, "Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand." Because entrance into the Kingdom of heaven has come with Christ, and it is at hand to all who repent and believe the Gospel.

Christ also says that His time is at hand. Very shortly thereafter He would go to the cross to fulfill all He must do that's what He meant when He speaks of His time being at hand. It wasn't some thirty to two thousand years later, as you and Preterists are trying to force at hand to be.

Christ even speaks of His time at hand being "the hour is at hand". This certainly is not referring to His coming again in an hour coming when the last trumpet begins to sound. Nor is He speaking about events that took place around AD 70.

Will you be consistent with how you believe "at hand" should be defined as even now about two thousand years away? Paul says "The night is spent, the day is at hand". Surely you can see that Paul was not speaking of the second coming of the Lord as the day that is at hand, but the time for casting off works of darkness, put on the armour of light, and walk honestly. IOW the day for salvation, the time when the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is being preached and man by grace through faith might enter the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven when they are born again of the Spirit.

Romans 13:11-14 (KJV) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Throughout the New Testament where we read something is "at hand" it is referring to that which comes very quickly, not some 30 to 2000 years from now. Because Christ is not speaking of His second coming in glory, He is speaking of the time for preaching the spiritual Kingdom of God that the Kingdom will be complete as saints by grace through faith come into the Kingdom of God.

The same is true when looking at verses that speak of things being "near". Each event said to be "near", they would not be near if they do not take place for another 30 to 2000 years later.

What was at hand and near when Christ spoke these words to His disciples? Clearly it was not the returning of Christ at the end of days. It was the spiritual Kingdom of God that John writes is the hour that was coming, and now is when the dead (spiritually) might hear the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, a spiritual Kingdom that may only be known and entered when man is born again of God.

 

[Red Baker]

Christ didn't speak the parable of the fig tree that they might know when Christ would come again, that for certain! Christ in them.

Really? How certain are you? Jesus said otherwise ~ I think I'll go with him over any man's teachings that said just the opposite of what you are saying when comparing Jesus' teaching on this subject~ no pun intended, just trying to point what I see to be an error.

Matthew 24:32,33~"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

To be honest with you and our readers, it is only fair that we quote Luke on this as well:

Luke 21:29-31~"And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand."

Comparing the two writers, we must admit that Matthew clearly has reference to Jesus' second coming, and and Luke added~know ye that the kingdom of God is at hand, meaning that the kingdom of God in its final and eternal state on the new earth will then be set up per Daniel's prophecy.

Daniel 7:13,14~"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.''

Daniel 7:21~"Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom."

Daniel 7:21~"And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."

There are more, but enough for now.

Sorry, but I do not agree! Christ was not giving this parable that they might know the second coming of Christ.

That they might know when the nearness of the coming of Jesus Christ. It is not that hard to see.

 

[Red Baker]

How does warning the disciples of evil all around and within as they take the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to all the nations of the world, change the fact that the "chosen generation" shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled?

Friend, it does not, yet this is not what is being taught concerning "this generation". But to warned them of evil and wicked men whom God calls an abomination that he will make desolate at his coming ~these evil generation of serpents will take over the temple of God (professing churches throughout this world) to a degree that God's very elect are not welcome, and will cause them to flee from them and warns others to do likewise.

Luke 21:21~"Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

The last days of the Gentiles churches will duplicate Israel's' last days when they were taken captive by the Babylonians.

I left the professing churches back in the late seventies, and went back a few years later only to leave for good a few years ago, never to return! The churches are full of rich false prophets, not a little rich, but super rich and they did not get that way preaching the gospel of election of grace.......salvation is totally of God apart from the will of man, etc.

I could cut Joel Osteen's church in half in one service if they allow me to preach Romans 9 the first Sunday there; and the next Sunday I could cut it in half again if I could preach on 2nd Thess 2 and expose men like him, Jimmy Swaggart, Kenneth Copeland and a host of others......that is, if I get out alive.

 

[Davy]

Friend, it does not, yet this is not what is being taught concerning "this generation". But to warned them of evil and wicked men whom God calls an abomination that he will make desolate at his coming ~these evil generation of serpents will take over the temple of God (professing churches throughout this world) to a degree that God's very elect are not welcome, and will cause them to flee from them and warns others to do likewise.

The last days of the Gentiles churches will duplicate Israel's' last days when they were taken captive by the Babylonians.

I left the professing churches back in the late seventies, and went back a few years later only to leave for good a few years ago, never to return! The churches are full of rich false prophets, not a little rich, but super rich and they did not get that way preaching the gospel of election of grace.......salvation is totally of God apart from the will of man, etc.

You are taking Scripture and modifying it for your own purpose.

The 'generation' Jesus was pointing to in His Olivet discourse is about the FINAL generation that will SEE "all these things" He spoke of, meaning the SIGNS of the END He was giving there while upon the Mount of Olives.

The "abomination of desolation" He quoted from Daniel 11, and is about the placing of an IDOL abomination inside a STANDING JEWISH STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM FOR THE END OF THIS WORLD.

But you... instead are trying to turn that future event into some falling away idea about Christian Churches, twisting that Scripture prophecy for your OWN purposes! God will... rebuke you for that!

 

[covenantee]

Luke 21:21~"Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

The last days of the Gentiles churches will duplicate Israel's' last days when they were taken captive by the Babylonians.

Nothing to do with the "last days".

Before 70 AD, the Judaean Christians heeded the warning in Jesus' discourse, fled to Pella, and survived.

Thankfully, they were not futurists.

They didn't wait around for the "last days".

 

[rwb]

Really? How certain are you? Jesus said otherwise ~ I think I'll go with him over any man's teachings that said just the opposite of what you are saying when comparing Jesus' teaching on this subject~ no pun intended, just trying to point what I see to be an error.

I didn't mean to imply Jesus says nothing about His coming again! But that is far from the focus of His discourse. After all when His coming would be weighed on the hearts and minds of His disciples then, as well as in every age to follow. They too wanted to know the signs of Christ's coming as well as when the end would be. But the main purpose of the discourse was that they and we after them might know that the Kingdom of God has come and that entrance into His Kingdom is near and at hand for all who hear the Gospel and believe on Christ.

Comparing the two writers, we must admit that Matthew clearly has reference to Jesus' second coming, and and Luke added~know ye that the kingdom of God is at hand, meaning that the kingdom of God in its final and eternal state on the new earth will then be set up per Daniel's prophecy.

That's your addition to what Christ said, but He did not say "its final and eternal state on the new earth".

That they might know when the nearness of the coming of Jesus Christ. It is not that hard to see.

Exactly! All can see Christ has come, and that He will come again visibly in the same manner in which He was seen departing. Why would the disciples of Christ need to know His coming again is near and even at the doors? It makes no sense! However the Kingdom of God is not so clear to know and impossible to visibly see. That's why Christ tells them how they can know with certainty the spiritual Kingdom of God has come when they (first century disciples) see life again to show in the fig tree and all the trees.

 

[Davy]

Luke 21:21~"Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."

Nothing to do with the "last days".

Before 70 AD, the Judaean Christians heeded the warning in Jesus' discourse, escaped to Pella, and survived.

Thankfully, they were not futurists.

So then Jesus' 2nd coming happened then too in 70 A.D.??

That is what you are saying when you infer the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a standing Jew's stone temple happened when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The temple burned down before the Romans could get possession of it, so they did not place an IDOL abomination inside the Jew's temple like the Daniel prophecy says.

It is thus obvious, per those SIGNS are for the very END of this world, because the Romans in 70 A.D. DID NOT FULFILL them. Today even, there are STILL HUGE STONES STANDING ATOP ONE ANOTHER UPON THE TEMPLE MOUNT IN JERUSALEM.

 

[covenantee]

So then Jesus' 2nd coming happened then too in 70 A.D.??

That is what you are saying when you infer the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a standing Jew's stone temple happened when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The temple burned down before the Romans could get possession of it, so they did not place an IDOL abomination inside the Jew's temple like the Daniel prophecy says.

It is thus obvious, per those SIGNS are for the very END of this world, because the Romans in 70 A.D. DID NOT FULFILL them. Today even, there are STILL HUGE STONES STANDING ATOP ONE ANOTHER UPON THE TEMPLE MOUNT IN JERUSALEM.

So then the Judaean Christians didn't flee?

 

[rwb]

Friend, it does not, yet this is not what is being taught concerning "this generation". But to warned them of evil and wicked men whom God calls an abomination that he will make desolate at his coming ~these evil generation of serpents will take over the temple of God (professing churches throughout this world) to a degree that God's very elect are not welcome, and will cause them to flee from them and warns others to do likewise.

No that is you spiritualizing a futuristic coming again when He will be visibly seen. Christ gives us assurance that "this generation" includes those first century Jewish disciples as well as all His disciples coming after them, that shall not pass until all things shall be fulfilled. Christ physically addressed these first century disciples in answer to their questions. Yet you want us to believe the answers Christ spoke to them as well as us were not for them as well as His disciples in every generation. We are the chosen generation that shall not pass until the spiritual Kingdom of God is completed in spite of great tribulation that shall be our lot in this life.

The last days of the Gentiles churches will duplicate Israel's' last days when they were taken captive by the Babylonians.

I left the professing churches back in the late seventies, and went back a few years later only to leave for good a few years ago, never to return! The churches are full of rich false prophets, not a little rich, but super rich and they did not get that way preaching the gospel of election of grace.......salvation is totally of God apart from the will of man, etc.

I could cut Joel Osteen's church in half in one service if they allow me to preach Romans 9 the first Sunday there; and the next Sunday I could cut it in half again if I could preach on 2nd Thess 2 and expose men like him, Jimmy Swaggart, Kenneth Copeland and a host of others......that is, if I get out alive.

Yes, I too believe the Church as the representation of the Kingdom of God on this earth, have become and are becoming more and more fallen and apostate in the same manner that Israel of Old had. But that does not mean the Church is altogether without faith. We know from Christ asking the rhetorical question about when He returns, saying, "when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" The candlestick or true light has been extinguished from many corporate bodies calling themselves Church. What does Christ say when He comes again that He will do?

Matthew 13:41 (KJV) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

All those physically belonging to a Church have taken His Kingdom by force, but they will not remain, Christ will send His angels to gather them all out of His Kingdom at the end of this world.

 

[covenantee]

That is what you are saying when you infer the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a standing Jew's stone temple happened when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

I say and infer nothing. Scripture itself identifies the "abomination of desolation". Nothing to do with an "IDOL".

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

It was the Roman armies.