How long O Lord

[Davy]

I don’t see how any true believer can’t interpret this..

View attachment 38607
Guess your not a true Bible believer… your logic is utterly ridiculous! to deny one’s belief in the Bible because they don’t agree with you!

Not to mention the seals aren’t poured out genius. Nor does it mark what you claim. Not even interested in your type of energy.. done.

If you want to throw out garbage ideas, revealing that you really are not that studied in God's Word as written, then don't try to drum up excuses that go off the subject.


For Brethren in Christ who do... study their Bible:

Here is the Biblical proof that the Rev.16 events that happen with the 7th Vial is about the "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this world, and also the day Jesus Christ returns to gather His faithful Church...

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Does that above event look familiar with the Rev.16:20 event? It ought to, it's the same event at the end of this world.

(See also Isaiah 34:4 about that future dissolving of the host of heaven, and heaven rolled together as a scroll. Hebrews 1:11-12 also. And of course 2 Peter 3:10)

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Christ dealing with those kings of the earth on that day of His future return is also mentioned in Psalms 110:5-6; Isaiah 24:21-22.

Know where else that idea is written, about those who try to hide in the dens and rocks of the mountains on that final day of this world? (See Isaiah 2:10-12; Isaiah 2:12-22)

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us", and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

In Luke 23:27-31, Jesus mentioned about the "daughters of Jerusalem" wishing for those above hills and mountains to, "Fall on us", and "Cover us", on that future day of Christ's return. They will wish for that because that will be the day their blindness is removed, and they will then 'know' Who Jesus Christ is Which they persecuted.

 

[Truthnightmare]

If you want to throw out garbage ideas, revealing that you really are not that studied in God's Word as written, then don't try to drum up excuses that go off the subject.


For Brethren in Christ who do... study their Bible:

Here is the Biblical proof that the Rev.16 events that happen with the 7th Vial is about the "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this world, and also the day Jesus Christ returns to gather His faithful Church...

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Does that above event look familiar with the Rev.16:20 event? It ought to, it's the same event at the end of this world.

(See also Isaiah 34:4 about that future dissolving of the host of heaven, and heaven rolled together as a scroll. Hebrews 1:11-12 also. And of course 2 Peter 3:10)

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Christ dealing with those kings of the earth on that day of His future return is also mentioned in Psalms 110:5-6; Isaiah 24:21-22.

Know where else that idea is written, about those who try to hide in the dens and rocks of the mountains on that final day of this world? (See Isaiah 2:10-12; Isaiah 2:12-22)

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us", and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

In Luke 23:27-31, Jesus mentioned about the "daughters of Jerusalem" wishing for those above hills and mountains to, "Fall on us", and "Cover us", on that future day of Christ's return. They will wish for that because that will be the day their blindness is removed, and they will then word.

'know' Who Jesus Christ is Which they persecuted.

Go off subject? You were the one who put into question me believing in the Bible, simply because I disagree with you. You are the one posting silly little photos that have nothing to do with the Word.

And you say I’m not studied because I posted the Massorah which was formed by Ezra and Nehemiah… You can’t even follow simple Greek subject and object, let alone article and particle.

Conversation over.

 

[Davy]

Go off subject? You were the one who put into question me believing in the Bible, simply because I disagree with you. You are the one posting silly little photos that have nothing to do with the Word.

And you say I’m not studied because I posted the Massorah which was formed by Ezra and Nehemiah… You can’t even follow simple Greek subject and object, let alone article and particle.

Conversation over.

We never had a conversation in the first place, and I don't see one happening in the future either, as you have obviously come here pushing a crazy idea about the 5th Seal event, and eventually even showed that you do not even have a clue as to what the Message of that 5th Seal is about, nor its timing.

Thus you need to listen to those who 'know', and open up your Bible and study more, instead of coming here to try push some cute idea you think is written in the Scripture when it is not.

Now the conversation is over.

 

[grafted branch]

Your statement above I put in bold-italics is where the problem is.

1. the souls of dead saints under the Altar asking the question is one group of God's servants that witnessed in past history.

2. their 'fellow servants' that are to be killed as they were because of giving a Testimony for Christ Jesus is a 2nd group, and is only for the future time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world. NO ONE today knows just who all those fellow-servants will be yet, simply because their time of that Testimony is not here yet today.


Thus your vain attempt to dwell on the phrase "How long" is just silliness, and is not the heart of the Message there.

We maybe closer in agreement than I first thought. I agree with your point #1 that the souls witnessed in past history. Point #2 I agree that their fellow servants and brethren are a different group. I would add that they don’t ask the question that the first group asks.

So are we in agreement then that the question asked at the fifth seal is not future to us? If so then would you say the first four seals took place in the past?

 

[Truthnightmare]

We never had a conversation in the first place, and I don't see one happening in the future either, as you have obviously come here pushing a crazy idea about the 5th Seal event, and eventually even showed that you do not even have a clue as to what the Message of that 5th Seal is about, nor its timing.

Thus you need to listen to those who 'know', and open up your Bible and study more, instead of coming here to try push some cute idea you think is written in the Scripture when it is not.

Now the conversation is over.

I have much to learn…. but you claiming you know is a joke. God does not put a light under a bush… you are in the neither regions of cyber space claiming you know… who are you? Know one knows.. surely up there in age still playing keyboard pastor.. lol ignored.

 

[Davy]

So are we in agreement then that the question asked at the fifth seal is not future to us? If so then would you say the first four seals took place in the past?

You are confused, because if you properly understood about those 2 separate groups of saints each with a specific time for their Testimony, then you would not ask the above question.

I mean REALLY! What about the phrase "How long?" do you not understand? They would not have asked that if they already knew. So that HAS to mean they knew His Judgment would be sometime in the future!

And of course the 2nd group aren't the ones asking God that, because that conversation is ONLY between those souls under God's Altar in Heaven and God Himself! How could you allow your mind to wander off that point? God brings in the subject of their brethren fellow-servants as a 'clue'... to those souls under the Altar as an answer with a 'clue' about how long. And that clue is about the saints at the end of this world that are to be delivered up per Mark 13, to give a Testimony for Jesus by The Holy Spirit. That event is future to us, set for the time of the future "great tribulation". Jesus gave that info in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. So in essence, God's answer to those souls under the Altar is a pointing to the SIGNS of the end of this world which Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse.

And even considering that idea that maybe the first 4 seals took place in past history immediately reveals to me who you are listening to, and it's men's doctrines, and not God's Word as written.

I don't mind helping, but you have to discern who to listen to, and God in His Word is always... 1st.

No... the SEALS of Revelation 6 did NOT take place back in history.

The Rev.6 SEALS match the seven main SIGNS of the end of this world leading up to Christ's future return on the last day. Those SIGNS Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. The SEALS all happen in the final 'generation' that will literally SEE Christ's future return.

 

[Davy]

I have much to learn…. but you claiming you know is a joke. God does not put a light under a bush… you are in the neither regions of cyber space claiming you know… who are you? Know one knows.. surely up there in age still playing keyboard pastor.. lol ignored.

You never heard me claim I know everything, so don't try to go there just because you had to suffer a little rebuke. Man up.

 

[Truthnightmare]

You never heard me claim I know everything, so don't try to go there just because you had to suffer a little rebuke. Man up.

You have no power to rebuke… man up! You’re a keyboard warrior playing on this very forum for the last 6 years… I bet you have never in your life told a man to “man up” in person. So have fun nothing is going to come of this back and forth.

 

[Davy]

I have much to learn…. but you claiming you know is a joke. God does not put a light under a bush… you are in the neither regions of cyber space claiming you know… who are you? Know one knows.. surely up there in age still playing keyboard pastor.. lol ignored.

I once tried to teach a friend how to change the spark plugs in their engine using a written manual. The manual was written in simple English. Yet they could not understand how to do the task using the manual, which was well written and easy to understand.

That very problem I see with some who think their study of Biblical languages opens up God's Wisdom He put in His Word. It doesn't. Understanding comes from GOD Himself via The Holy Spirit, and He can close it off to you, or open it up to you.

So never think that by just knowing a Biblical language true understanding in God's Word is automatic. Bragging about having Biblical language skills isn't really a true Measure, just so ya know.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I once tried to teach a friend how to change the spark plugs in their engine using a written manual. The manual was written in simple English. Yet they could not understand how to do the task using the manual, which was well written and easy to understand.

That very problem I see with some who think their study of Biblical languages opens up God's Wisdom He put in His Word. It doesn't. Understanding comes from GOD Himself via The Holy Spirit, and He can close it off to you, or open it up to you.

So never think that by just knowing a Biblical language true understanding in God's Word is automatic. Bragging about having Biblical language skills isn't really a true Measure, just so ya know.

Bro.. Ive spoken the word in places you can’t even walk down the street.. I’ve claimed my allegiance to Christ in front of convicts. You insinuate I don’t believe the Word and that I’m sent? In your ignorance you don’t understand that the Bible is the Word and Christ is the living word. When I’m in the Bible as a believer I’m in Christ.. and I’m not going to let some back room Bible forum nobody critique my belief in the Bible, the Hebrew, the Chaldee, the manuscripts the Torah or any other piece of literature.. so as I said, have a good day, unless you want to continue this conversation in person, where your mannerism would change immediately.

 

[grafted branch]

I mean REALLY! What about the phrase "How long?" do you not understand? They would not have asked that if they already knew. So that HAS to mean they knew His Judgment would be sometime in the future!

No... the SEALS of Revelation 6 did NOT take place back in history.

Ok, I think I got it now. Those who ask the question in Revelation 6:10 died prior to the writing of Revelation otherwise they would obviously know the answer, but then we have the statement that they should rest a little season. How long is a little season? 2,000 years?

 

[Davy]

Ok, I think I got it now. Those who ask the question in Revelation 6:10 died prior to the writing of Revelation otherwise they would obviously know the answer, but then we have the statement that they should rest a little season. How long is a little season? 2,000 years?

What is meant in The New Testament about the last "hour" of the laborers of the field? and the "short time" the devil knows he has? That is what that "season" is about. It is about coming time of "great tribulation" at the very end of this world which Jesus warned His faithful Church about.

See Matthew 20:1-16;
Revelation 12:12;
Revelation 17:12;
Matthew 24:21-23

 

[grafted branch]

What is meant in The New Testament about the last "hour" of the laborers of the field? and the "short time" the devil knows he has? That is what that "season" is about. It is about coming time of "great tribulation" at the very end of this world which Jesus warned His faithful Church about.

See Matthew 20:1-16;
Revelation 12:12;
Revelation 17:12;
Matthew 24:21-23

Yea, I think a little season is a relatively short time also. So why would those who ask the question in Revelation 6:10 be told to wait a little season when they died prior to the writing of Revelation? Are you saying they died 2,000 or more years ago and they still haven’t asked the question yet? Shouldn’t they be able to read the Bible in heaven and see that they need to ask the question?

 

[rwb]

Did you read post #51? I showed that John called Jesus the word of God, this very same John who wrote both his gospel and Revelation.

Do you notice that your view is only assuming that their testimony wasn't about Jeus without any bases?

John called Jesus the word of God and these souls are killed because of their testimony of the word of God. They are also to wait until their brothers and sisters are all killed and are given white robes to wear.

Marty what I said is that their testimony was not for the witness of Jesus. How could they be witnesses of Jesus before Jesus was born and they called Him Jesus? He had to become a man, and that man was called Jesus, whom all the New Covenant saints are witnesses of Him (Jesus). The name of Jesus is not found anywhere in the Old Testament. He was known only as Messiah or Savior etc. but never Jesus before He was born a human and given that name.

Yes, Jesus is the Word of God that was from creation. And yes the Word was made flesh, just as John writes, but John did not know Him by His human name before He was born a man. Christ could not atone for sin and defeat death until He was made flesh. It is specifically the Gospel message that tells us about the Word that became flesh and gave His human life to make atonement for sin, and defeated death by resurrecting from the dead. The prophets foretell of A Messiah/Savior who would come to take away sin and redeem them from death. But the Old Covenant saints could not be witnesses of the Gospel (Jesus) before His first advent.

John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 2:14-18 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

These Old Covenant saints testified to the Word of God they knew as the Messiah, the anointed one (Dan 9:25-26), and their Saviour, but they did not testify of Jesus' personal name. They could not know "thou are the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world" before He came into the world as fully human, and fully Divine. So from the Old it was prophesied that Messiah would come, but Old Covenant saints could not have known of Him as Jesus.

John 11:27 (KJV) She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Their fellow servants were the remnant of Old saved according to election of grace, and their brethren is Christ. Those who were of faith in the coming Messiah prophesied, who died for their faith before the first advent of Christ, would ascend to heaven together with Christ when His spirit returned to the Father. These faithful martyrs of Old ascended with Christ as a spiritual body of believers to heaven from the grave that in Old Testament times was known as Abraham's bosom. It was believed those who died in faith were carried by the angels to the bosom of Abraham, while those who died in unbelief were simply called the dead and buried.

All who are of Christ are called HIs brothers and sisters in faith whether they are the Old Covenant remnant or the New Covenant faithful from all the nations of the world.

 

[quietthinker]

Well that could be their motive but Revelation 6:9 says they were slain for the word and their testimony. One would think that they have read Revelation 6 and that this was part of their testimony. Even with a faulty understanding of being avenged they ask a question that they already know the answer to.

Why would someone ask a question that they know the answer to? Are they so inept that they just ask without realizing who or where they are?

Ineptness is the main story of believers in Jesus but God does not hold it against them. He desires them to come to a better understanding of his character, the character as modelled by Jesus, a self sacrificing God, not the one modelled by pagan deities ie, survival of the fittest and revenge motivated.

 

[Keraz]

I’m not seeing the return of Christ here, it seems He returns after these things.

Revelation 16:16-21 is paralleled by Revelation 19:11-21.
Proved by Gods fierce wrath and how the mountains and islands are moved from their place, by how the attackers of Jesus are killed, but not burned or totally destroyed and the carrion animals eat them.

 

[quietthinker]

Revelation 16:16-21 is paralleled by Revelation 19:11-21.
Proved by Gods fierce wrath and how the mountains and islands are moved from their place, by how the attackers of Jesus are killed, but not burned or totally destroyed and the carrion animals eat them.

Keraz, go are learn why Paul said, 'All the promises of God are Yes and Amen in Jesus' 2 Corinthians 1:20
and also why Jesus quoted the OT 'I desire mercy not sacrifice'

....and do you think that Noah, a preacher of righteousness told the people, God's going to drown you all or was it, God told me to build this Ark because he knows the rains are coming, come and join us in the Ark?

 

[Davy]

Yea, I think a little season is a relatively short time also. So why would those who ask the question in Revelation 6:10 be told to wait a little season when they died prior to the writing of Revelation?

Because of what they asked The LORD, i.e. when would He avenge their blood. Don't you remember?

Are you saying they died 2,000 or more years ago and they still haven’t asked the question yet?

That's idea is irrelevant. That 5th Seal is not given there in Rev.6 to highlight the past persecutions of the saints, it's about the giving of new information in relation to the very end of days about those who also will be killed for their Testimony like they were. That's when the Seals are for, at the end of this world.

 

[grafted branch]

Ineptness is the main story of believers in Jesus but God does not hold it against them. He desires them to come to a better understanding of his character, the character as modelled by Jesus, a self sacrificing God, not the one modelled by pagan deities ie, survival of the fittest and revenge motivated.

I don’t disagree with you about us believers being inept while alive on earth but those in Revelation 6:9 are dead, they were slain.

We know they are under the altar and some people suggest that this is Sheol, prior to the souls leaving. In Genesis 4:10 Abel’s blood cries unto God from the ground. In Luke 16:19-31 the story of the rich man and Lazarus shows that people in Sheol have a better understanding than when they were alive.

Some people place those under the altar as being in heaven. 1 Corinthians 13:12 says now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known. This also implies we will have a better understanding once we die.

I can currently understand the fact that the slain believers are asking a question and they received an answer in Revelation 6:9-11. I suppose there are currently some believers who cannot comprehend a rudimentary understanding of this and maybe they never do, even after they die. Should we then conclude that these kind of people are the ones who ask the question in Revelation 6:10?

 

[grafted branch]

That's idea is irrelevant. That 5th Seal is not given there in Rev.6 to highlight the past persecutions of the saints, it's about the giving of new information in relation to the very end of days about those who also will be killed for their Testimony like they were. That's when the Seals are for, at the end of this world.

But it is relevant because it would give us insight as to what happens in heaven. If those who have died 2,000 or more years ago haven’t asked the question yet then they must not be able to read our current Bible or communicate with those who are dead that have read it. Also it would indicate that the white robes haven’t been handed out yet either since the robes are given out after the question is asked.

Maybe there are a couple of smart alecks in heaven that just refuse to ask the question of how long, preventing all the robes from getting passed out, which prevents the bride from making herself ready in Revelation 19:7. This could explain why all the predictions of the second coming have failed so far, people just aren’t seeing that the Revelation 6:10 question has to be asked first.