WWJD with LGBTQ?

[amadeus]

St. SteVen said:
I'm not.
It would be rare for a person to surrender fully to the HS at conversion.

Agree.
Do not quench the Spirit.

As you know, it doesn't all come at once.
It's a process. Brick by brick; precept on precept.
Like a wall, these things build on one another.

You can't have that thing on row three on brick five
without laying all the bricks to get to that point.

/

I believe that when or if a person gets to the point where he never quenches the Holy Spirit, he not only will not sin, he will no longer be tempted to sin. This where Jesus was already, I believe, when he prayed this:

Joh 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, ...

Can any other man get there before the dirt is shoveled over his face?

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe that when or if a person gets to the point where he never quenches the Holy Spirit, he not only will not sin, he will no longer be tempted to sin. This where Jesus was already, I believe, when he prayed this:

Joh 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, ...

Can any other man get there before the dirt is shoveled over his face?

That's a tall order, buddy. - LOL

/

 

[amadeus]

That's a tall order, buddy. - LOL

/

Certainly but not impossible for God working in us:

Mr 10:27

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

That few are seen or recognized is probably due to too many of us quenching the Spirit too much of the time. Talk about limiting God:

Ps 78:41

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

 

[St. SteVen]

Certainly but not impossible for God working in us:

Mr 10:27

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

That few are seen or recognized is probably due to too many of us quenching the Spirit too much of the time. Talk about limiting God:

Ps 78:41

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Wow, awesome post.

Talk about limiting God:

Ps 78:41

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Limiting God. Happens all too often. (as you know)

Some get so locked into our religion that they pay MORE attention to that than they do to God.

/

 

[Shittim]

John 16, Jesus speaks of this time, that most would have an outward form of Godliness, denying the power, that resonates with me and how most have a mental assent to His existence and sacrifice for them, yet are not in vital, one on one, relationship.
Where do we find "most Christians" as He referenced? To me it seems we find "Most Christians" in churches. I recently saw a teaching of why churches are thinning out, yet His ecclesia is the body of believers, not organized" religion.
Jesus said He only did what He saw the Father do, He only said what He heard the Father say.
He was our model for how to live pleasing the Father.
Thanks Amadeus for the for the John 17:11 reference.
blessings

 

[St. SteVen]

John 16, Jesus speaks of this time, that most would have an outward form of Godliness, denying the power

Also reminds me of this one.

1 Corinthians 2:4 NIV
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words,
but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power,

/

 

[Shittim]

Great! Thank you kindly, so great to be here. Last place I was left a lot to be desired, many there had no grasp of the reality of walking with Him, and had not infrequent shutdowns at the first of the month, as though paying the bill to stay up was difficult, might say something about them not enjoying His provision and protection for this.
There are far more Biblical Christians here from my impression.
best wishes

 

[St. SteVen]

Great! Thank you kindly, so great to be here. Last place I was left a lot to be desired, many there had no grasp of the reality of walking with Him, and had not infrequent shutdowns at the first of the month, as though paying the bill to stay up was difficult, might say something about them not enjoying His provision and protection for this.
There are far more Biblical Christians here from my impression.
best wishes

It would help if you clicked the <Reply button in the lower right in the window of who you a replying to.
They will get an alert, and they will know you are talking to them. Thanks.

/

 

[Shittim]

( Old dog, new trick, thank you)

 

[Lizbeth]

Welcome to the forum.
I used to live not far away from you in Ladora, IA.
In a suburb north of Waterloo called Cedar Falls.

Luke 4:18-19 NIV
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

/

Amen....it's wonderful that there are prison ministries and ministries to LGBT folks........praise God for that. As long as we remember what Jesus said about it being the TRUTH that sets one free.

 

[Shittim]

Easier to share to a "captive " audience. lol:);)

 

[Hobie]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

Its what He does with all sinners...
John 8:1-12
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

[Shittim]

"Go and sin no more", sin opens the door for demons to come in who only seek to steal, kill and destroy, thus is His admonishment to "sin no more".
We were created male and female, no other genders and definitely no "gray" areas.
Keep in mind most who claim to be Christian may not be.
best wishes

 

[Lizbeth]

Easier to share to a "captive " audience. lol:);)

Very true. :) Sometimes what the devil means for evil, God means for good.

 

[Lizbeth]

Lots of housecleaning still left to do after Christ enters. IMO
People keep stuff in backrooms and closets (gay) and in dark corners of the basement and attic.

/

Yes, and the first step after coming to faith in Christ is to begin resisting the devil and he will flee from you. Not be taught that it's ok to keep living according to your former conversation with lust and darkness etc. We get tested....our faith must be proven. Strengthen and encourage and instruct and wash newer believers in the word of God, not with vain philosophies of man. GOD's word has power, it's the sword of the Lord.....a spiritual weapon against devil and demons who only come to steal kill and destroy. I was privileged to see some demons flee without even having to be cast out per se....just by the WASHING of the water of the WORD and the presence of the Holy Spirit. Can't stress enough how important it is to wash and instruct new believers in the undiluted word of God.....IMMERSE them in it! Not just a half hour sermon once a week that is full of the speaker's own thoughts and anecdotes with one or two little bible verses thrown in if you're lucky.

 

[Lizbeth]

Sounds as if Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom must have repented then.
When did that happen?

- Have you forgiven them yet?
- Have you received them into fellowship yet?

/

It happens when they receive Christ. Of course they are forgiven then. And received into fellowship. But not until then.

Fellowship is not really something we DO so much, but rather it's more something that born again believers HAVE with one another....if we have Christ in us by His Spirit, because His Spirit is the source of fellowship. We are told not to have fellowship with unbelievers. That would be a false fellowship and lead to compromise and dilution and defiling of the gospel. Participation in church life per se is not for the world, it is for believers. And even among believers there are circumstances when we are not to fellowship with someone.

2Co 6:14-18

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.



2Jo 1:10-11

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



1Co 5:1-2

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.



2Ti 3:5-8

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, and the first step after coming to faith in Christ is to begin resisting the devil and he will flee from you.

The first step?
Might depend on their background. That may scare some folks away,
Instilling fear of satanic attacks first thing. ???

I was privileged to see some demons flee without even having to be cast out per se....just by the WASHING of the water of the WORD and the presence of the Holy Spirit.

They may have fled to back corners, still in the house.
Just because they aren't manifesting doesn't mean they are gone.
But would agree that a crowd of them can go immediately.
The ones that stay have a contractual agreement with us to stay.
We need to break the contacts (denounce the lie) before they can be cast out.

Can't stress enough how important it is to wash and instruct new believers in the undiluted word of God.....IMMERSE them in it!

Undiluted?
I'm amazed at all the terms we use to fuel tribalism.
Claiming a blowtorch is needed when a candle would do.

Not just a half hour sermon once a week that is full of the speaker's own thoughts and anecdotes with one or two little bible verses thrown in if you're lucky.

I agree that a young believer needs to be reading the Bible on their own.
We need to account for differences in people though. Some are just not as good at studying as you or I may be.
I was a young adult before I applied myself to reading and studying the whole Bible cover-to-cover.

I'm curious about your experience as a young believer. Did you need all this that you post about?
In my own experience I noticed, in retrospect, a similar situation that we have with our own parents,
Which led to a bit of a crisis in transition. I felt that I had been abandoned, until I realized what it was.
But no one had warned me.

Like a child, I felt the parental protection of God the Father. When I came of age spiritually,
I suddenly felt all alone. The parent was not as present as before. I needed to stand on my own,
for the most part. But in time we grew back together as I learned how to draw near to God.

When an infant cries, a parent comes running.
As an adult, we need to pick up the phone. - LOL

/

 

[St. SteVen]

It happens when they receive Christ. Of course they are forgiven then. And received into fellowship. But not until then.

You don't allow inquirers at your church?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

The first step?
Might depend on their background. That may scare some folks away,
Instilling fear of satanic attacks first thing. ???

Simply means to resist temptation. That's not scary. Teach folks how to resist temptation. God has provided a way of escape.

They may have fled to back corners, still in the house.
Just because they aren't manifesting doesn't mean they are gone.
But would agree that a crowd of them can go immediately.
The ones that stay have a contractual agreement with us to stay.
We need to break the contacts (denounce the lie) before they can be cast out.

There doesn't have to be a formula. I know that's what is often taught though. The Lord may lead that way, but not in every instance. Where do we see Jesus in scripture asking people to renounce anything before casting out evil spirits? Jesus didn't go by formulas but He was led by the Spirit, by His Father.

They may be bound or they may come out of the person. Both are good, don't you think? Don't underestimate the cleansing and keeping power of the word of God! The Spirit and the Word agree.

Eph 5:25-27

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Want to know what love looks like? Well that is what love looks like....what a precious word. Praise the Lord.

 

[Lizbeth]

Undiluted?
I'm amazed at all the terms we use to fuel tribalism.
Claiming a blowtorch is needed when a candle would do.

David's heart sure burned hot for the Lord and His word...should read that whole Psalm.

Psa 119:9-11

How can a young man keep his way pure?
By keeping it according to Your word.

With all my heart I have sought You;
Do not let me wander from Your commandments.

I have treasured Your word in my heart,
So that I may not sin against You.

I agree that a young believer needs to be reading the Bible on their own.
We need to account for differences in people though. Some are just not as good at studying as you or I may be.
I was a young adult before I applied myself to reading and studying the whole Bible cover-to-cover.

I'm curious about your experience as a young believer. Did you need all this that you post about?
In my own experience I noticed, in retrospect, a similar situation that we have with our own parents,
Which led to a bit of a crisis in transition. I felt that I had been abandoned, until I realized what it was.
But no one had warned me.

Like a child, I felt the parental protection of God the Father. When I came of age spiritually,
I suddenly felt all alone. The parent was not as present as before. I needed to stand on my own,
for the most part. But in time we grew back together as I learned how to draw near to God.

When an infant cries, a parent comes running.
As an adult, we need to pick up the phone. - LOL

The older I've gotten the more I have come to appreciate and love and know how vital God's word is. Yes, not all are good at reading and holding their concentration but that might improve with time......the devil fights against it.....but preaching and teaching and just reading the bible out loud prayerfully can get around that.

There's a scripture coming to mind....about teaching God's laws to your "children" (newer believers) night and day, but I can't find it at the moment. But it conveys the idea of the importance of teaching God's word to them every moment possible.