WWJD with LGBTQ?

[amigo de christo]

2Pe 2:14-29

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2Pe 2:16-20

But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


2Th 2:10-12

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Eze 9:1-10

He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn (word of God!) by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.



These are such terrible sad times when the glory of the Lord is departing His house and He Himself is blinding the eyes of His people that they can’t hear or see the truth, because they love it (Him) not. But notice what spares a remnant – the word of God (truth) that the slain refused to receive and love.

And for this cause HE shall send strong delusion that they should believe a lie . THEY rejected the LOVE of the TRUTH .
Reprobation of nations is fast filling up . GOD desired not the death of the wicked but rather they would repent
They did this to themselves , despite the mercy and longsuffering of GOD they would not hear .

 

[St. SteVen]

But it isn't simple. There is such a mental illness - gender dysphoria. About half of 1% of people have it, and that estimate is liberal. Yet we have thousands upon millions of (mostly young) people who are identifying as a gender other than they had when they came out of the box, so to speak.

That isn't gender dysphoria. Not a mental illness. That's something else.

Peer pressure.
It has become fashionable to be transgender.

The question is, how far someone will take their peer loyalty?
And how much support do they have in the process?

- Will it destroy their relationship with their parents?
- Will they lose other family?
- Lose non-affirming friends?
- Alienation with their religious community?

Even an assumed alienation with God. ??? (as inferred by church folk)
Does God turn his back on youth going through all this?

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2Pe 2:14-29

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

2Pe 2:16-20

But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


2Th 2:10-12

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Eze 9:1-10

He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn (word of God!) by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.



These are such terrible sad times when the glory of the Lord is departing His house and He Himself is blinding the eyes of His people that they can’t hear or see the truth, because they love it (Him) not. But notice what spares a remnant – the word of God (truth) that the slain refused to receive and love.

If people question what God thinks of all this sin and depravity, they just need to read Gen 18 and 19

 

[St. SteVen]

If people question what God thinks of all this sin and depravity, they just need to read Gen 18 and 19

Ultimately, God is about restoration.

This is a rather long, but interesting, citation about the restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom. The bit about Edom is most interesting. It discusses the use of exaggerated language (to make a point) in biblical literature. Meaning, it is not to be taken literally.

The restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah from "eternal" fire Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Ezekiel 16:53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,

The restoration of Ammon and Moab Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Jeremiah 25:22, 27 21 Edom, Moab and Ammon; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:6 “Yet afterward, I will restore the fortunes of the Ammonites,” declares the Lord. Jeremiah 48:4, 47 4 Moab will be broken; her little ones will cry out. 47 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come,” declares the Lord. Here ends the judgment on Moab.


The restoration of Elam Jeremiah 25:25, 27 25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:39 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Elam in days to come,” declares the Lord.


The restoration of Egypt
Jeremiah 25:19, 27 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people, ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Ezekiel 29:13-14 “‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. 14 I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edom

Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In order for God to restore anything, we have to repent and learn Gods thinking.

If we continue in sin or excuse it, there will be no restoration. Only destruction and death

 

[St. SteVen]

In order for God to restore anything, we have to repent and learn Gods thinking.

If we continue in sin or excuse it, there will be no restoration. Only destruction and death

Sounds as if Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom must have repented then.
When did that happen?

- Have you forgiven them yet?
- Have you received them into fellowship yet?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Ultimately, God is about restoration.

This is a rather long, but interesting, citation about the restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom. The bit about Edom is most interesting. It discusses the use of exaggerated language (to make a point) in biblical literature. Meaning, it is not to be taken literally.

The restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah from "eternal" fire Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Ezekiel 16:53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,

The restoration of Ammon and Moab Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Jeremiah 25:22, 27 21 Edom, Moab and Ammon; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:6 “Yet afterward, I will restore the fortunes of the Ammonites,” declares the Lord. Jeremiah 48:4, 47 4 Moab will be broken; her little ones will cry out. 47 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come,” declares the Lord. Here ends the judgment on Moab.


The restoration of Elam Jeremiah 25:25, 27 25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:39 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Elam in days to come,” declares the Lord.


The restoration of Egypt
Jeremiah 25:19, 27 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people, ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Ezekiel 29:13-14 “‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. 14 I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edom

Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

/

Restoration is what the gospel is for. There is no restoration (reconciliation with God) apart from the gospel.

 

[amigo de christo]

Restoration is what the gospel is for. There is no restoration (reconciliation with God) apart from the gospel.

make sure you explain what the gospel truly is . Cause most think the social all inclusive gospel IS THE GOSPEL
and it aint it cometh of satan .

 

[amigo de christo]

In order for God to restore anything, we have to repent and learn Gods thinking.

If we continue in sin or excuse it, there will be no restoration. Only destruction and death

Any thinking that contradicts the words of GOD , AINT COMING from GOD . BIBLE TIME my dear dear friends

 

[amigo de christo]

Restoration is what the gospel is for. There is no restoration (reconciliation with God) apart from the gospel.

Cornelious . let us remember the example given us in that bible about cornelioius
For the satanic led all inclusive social gospel sayeth , HEY the gospel is just doing good works and loving one another .
Rather odd . That AINT the gospel .
CAUSE cornelious was doing that . HE did so much good his actual prayer and good deeds of giving to the poor
came up as a memorial before GOD . HE STILL HAD TO HEAR THE GOSPEL TO BE SAVED .
THE GOSPEL cometh with a very clear message . YA GOTTA BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
you gotta believe GOD rose him from the dead . Go ahead and take a peek at what peter preached to the HOUSE of cornelious .
THE SOCIAL ALL INCLUSIVE GOSPEL , IS A LIE FROM SATAN , it honors sins and it omits the DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO CONFESS
JESUS as CHRIST BY MOUTH and believe GOD rose HIM from the dead . ITS SATANS FALSE LOVE MESSAGE
and i shun , and by grace shall continue to shun ITS MESSAGE TO THE PITS OF HELL if i could . This lamb
gonna point to JESUS CHRIST and not to another jesus , TO THE GOSPEL and not to some other sold out false gospel .
AND JESUS NEVER WAS OR HAS BEEN OR WILL BE , The ministir of dark rainbows or sin .
JESUS DIDNT COME TO SET US FREE TO SIN TO HONOR SIN , NOR to delcare what GOD calls evil GOOD .
I USED TO LIVE ALL THAT . NO sirs and no mams , JESUS CAME TO SET US FREE FROM THE OLD MAN
from THE DEVIL , from the power of SIN , TO GIVE US ETERNAL LIFE , to live and to HONOR GOD .

 

[Lizbeth]

Does God turn his back on youth going through all this?

God has provided a solution for the ills of those youth and all the ills of this world. It is called the gospel of Jesus Christ.

But in answer to your question.....sit down and put on your seat belt, but yes, sadly, there are times when God does turn His back on a people or generation of people. As the bible informs us, He did with Israel in the past, and I'm afraid we in the west are seeing it now. We are even warned in scripture that these things happened to Israel as an example to us.

Rom 2:8-12

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 

[Lizbeth]

In order for God to restore anything, we have to repent and learn Gods thinking.

If we continue in sin or excuse it, there will be no restoration. Only destruction and death

Amen!

Rom 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

His thoughts are not like our thoughts, His ways are not like man's ways.............they are much higher. We either conform to Him or perish.

 

[Lizbeth]

make sure you explain what the gospel truly is . Cause most think the social all inclusive gospel IS THE GOSPEL
and it aint it cometh of satan .

Amen. Man-made versions are powerless to save. That is the broad way to destruction, sadly.....it's always more popular than the true gospel unfortunately. Why Jesus was rejected and persecuted....His Way wasn't too popular with the mainstream.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. Man-made versions are powerless to save. That is the broad way to destruction, sadly.....it's always more popular than the true gospel unfortunately. Why Jesus was rejected and persecuted....His Way wasn't too popular with the mainstream.

exactly sister . the broad way to destruction has overtaken many churches under guise of another love , another gospel .
The LAMBS wont be heeding it . rather they gonna point to the true Gospel , the true LOVE of GOD , the TRUTH .
You can bet the TRUE JESUS would not be walking into churches today and holding a rainbow flag
and hugging all and saying muslims and all worship the same GOD we do . RATHER HE WOULD BE OVERTURNING HIM SOME
TABLES and saying YE HAVE TURNED MY HOUSE INTO A HOUSE OF THIEVES .
A house that honors sins and this dishonors the FATHER . THIS generation gonna be in for a serious wakeup call
ON THE DAY OF THE LORD , IF they repent not .
FOR on that day , JESUS IS COMING with more than mere whips against the ungodly who used HIS NAME to teach A LIE .

 

[Wick Stick]

Peer pressure.
It has become fashionable to be transgender.

Certainly that's part of it. I think there's more to it than that.

There's media pressure to "normalize" homosexuality and transexuality. And, not to go too far into conspiracy-theory-land, but there have been changes in our food and medicine.

 

[Wick Stick]

The problem with science though it may be useful up to a point for this natural world, is that it ignores and cannot measure or observe spiritual realities. What is observable and measurable by science is only the surface of what is going on. As the scriptures show, there is the natural realm and there is a spiritual realm. The bible also tells us that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit.....the carnal (natural) mind of man can't perceive them. Why did Jesus talk about needing eyes to see and ears to hear? We are told to walk by faith (Spirit) not by natural sight.

The spiritual realm has very real affects on the natural realm.....devil/demons can and do cause all kinds of havoc, and did, beginning with the fall of man. But Jesus was given all power/authority over the spiritual and natural realms by the Father, and He has delegated that to His church.....healing the sick and oppressed, casting out devils and restoring wholeness/soundness to people. Problem is the church isn't walking in all the power that has been made available to us. Can be for a variety of reasons - we are battling an enemy - but part of it nowadays is because of false doctrine.....not knowing or believing the truth of what GOD says and instead embracing what the world and carnal mind says about things, and because of sin in the camp.

Please test this but I wonder also if another part of it is that when God has decided to judge and chastise a society or nation, or His church in general, not as many people will be getting saved and healed.....He withdraws His Spirit. Kind of like a vicious cycle..? There are times and seasons. Why did Jesus say the love of many will grow cold near the end? It is hard to stay encouraged when we are living in a time/season of great darkness and not seeing the Lord move very much. We need to stay close to the Lord like never before, we're even being tested in this time...and as David wrote in the Psalms, to encourage and remind ourselves of things He has done in the past. "Go my people enter your rooms and shut the door until my wrath passes by." I think of Simeon and Anna hunkering down in the temple , drawing near to God praying and waiting, for the better part of their lives, until Jesus finally came into that time of darkness in Israel.

I see that you are one of the many who think of the spiritual as some sort of other realm or alternate dimension.

I don't think like that. That view is faaaaar outside the culture of the times of the Bible. As someone who has gone to some lengths to familiarize myself with the culture and ideas of the Biblical era... that idea doesn't exist in those days. It's science fiction from the 20th century to me.

 

[marks]

But it isn't simple. There is such a mental illness - gender dysphoria. About half of 1% of people have it, and that estimate is liberal. Yet we have thousands upon millions of (mostly young) people who are identifying as a gender other than they had when they came out of the box, so to speak.

That isn't gender dysphoria. Not a mental illness. That's something else.

There are a variety of mental illnesses that can cause these behaviors, including mental and emotional behaviors. And I agree, there is something else, causing corporations and schools and libraries and governments to all work very hard to perpetuate the lie.

A lot of people are being lied to, and they believe the lie. Taking on a delusion is still delusional behavior, which is still a mental illness. Forces of evil would have man go mad, and mankind has done such a royal job of messing themselves up they want it to happen.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Certainly that's part of it. I think there's more to it than that.

There's media pressure to "normalize" homosexuality and transexuality. And, not to go too far into conspiracy-theory-land, but there have been changes in our food and medicine.

The "more to it than that" is spiritual....it's a deception that is taking hold of people - in a society that has thrown out the only protection from the kingdom of darkness that exists (Jesus Christ and His gospel). Devil is the father of lies. When the Holy Spirit moves out, the devil and his demon spirits move in (to steal, kill and destroy).

 

[Lizbeth]

I see that you are one of the many who think of the spiritual as some sort of other realm or alternate dimension.

I don't think like that. That view is faaaaar outside the culture of the times of the Bible. As someone who has gone to some lengths to familiarize myself with the culture and ideas of the Biblical era... that idea doesn't exist in those days. It's science fiction from the 20th century to me.

Hmmm. Well let's start with the Holy SPIRIT, for starters. And the things that can only be spiritually discerned? Then there is the kingdom (realm) that is within/among us.....can you see it, touch it, or taste it? And New Jerusalem...the city that is ABOVE...? What about the powers and principalities in HIGH PLACES that we are wrestling against.......who are ruled by the prince of the POWER OF THE AIR. Shamans in various cultures have know about a dark spiritual realm for eons....to their hurt and the hurt of those who follow them. Demons manifest at times....there are many many believers who have seen them manifest and come out of people. They can often be discerned when they are not manifesting as well.


2Co 4:17
For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.

2Co 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

 

[Shittim]

Anyone who has worked in Corrections has seen the demonically influenced. Seems the last stages of spiritual decline are incarceration, institutionalization, and death.