Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[Eternally Grateful]

My frown reactions signify I don't agree with your doctrine, which culminates in works-righteousness, self-righteousness and self-preservation, which is similar to what Roman Catholicism teaches.

I'm sure these many people in Matthew 7:22 were sincere about trying to follow Scripture as well, yet Jesus never knew them. In John 17:3, we read - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge. Sincerity is not enough. We ALL need to make sure that we are correct when it comes to Christian doctrine and that we don't end up twisting the Scriptures to our own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16) Our salvation depends on it.

In Matthew 7:13-14, Jesus said - Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. Jesus Christ is the only way. (John 10:9; 14:6) We need to be sure that we truly believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:11-13 etc..).


Of course, "believes" is in the present tense, is ongoing and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away, like a seed that was sown in rocky, shallow soil and never took root. Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you "have been" (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. To abide or remain confirms that our faith was firmly rooted and established from the start. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

A lot of want to be’s.. who because they have not truly experienced Christ personally. Lose their so called belief and walk away. Or worse yet. Just continue to live in sin.. which of course proves they were never created anew.. Not Only Did Jesus ever know them.. They never knew him

 

[GracePeace]

You know im glad i got to try to talk to you about it but you dont see any difference. That is alright maybe one day you will, but idk. May you continue to increase in your knowledge and may you continue to abide in the spirit of christ through your life. Im kind of just done talking in general cause i been talking alot in the past several days. God bless you and everyone else on this board.

I can't recommend bringing your difficulties with Scripture to God enough. All I ever found were questions. It took prayer to get answers.

 

[GracePeace]

A lot of want to be’s.. who because they have not truly experienced Christ personally. Lose their so called belief and walk away. Or worse yet. Just continue to live in sin.. which of course proves they were never created anew.. Not Only Did Jesus ever know them.. They never knew him

Nope, when someone falls away in an irretrievable manner (some aren't irretrievable, some are--eg, the Heb 6 believers VS the audience Hebrews is written to, "we are persuaded of better things concerning you though we speak this way"), God forgets their righteousness (Ez 3:20), so it is as though they had never been saved at all. They are blotted out.

This brings us to another deficiency in your view: Christ is "The same yesterday and forever", but your Christ does change, because He doesn't blot names out of His Book anymore (Ex 32:33). Mine does.

 

[GracePeace]

My frown reactions signify I don't agree with your doctrine, which culminates in works-righteousness, self-righteousness and self-preservation, which is similar to what Roman Catholicism teaches.

I'm sure these many people in Matthew 7:22 were sincere about trying to follow Scripture as well, yet Jesus never knew them. In John 17:3, we read - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge. Sincerity is not enough. We ALL need to make sure that we are correct when it comes to Christian doctrine and that we don't end up twisting the Scriptures to our own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16) Our salvation depends on it.

In Matthew 7:13-14, Jesus said - Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. Jesus Christ is the only way. (John 10:9; 14:6) We need to be sure that we truly believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:11-13 etc..).

I agree that there is a right and a wrong way to apply the Scriptures I've shared, but there is no question that what I have said is both in the Bible and correctly reconciled here. I will never veer from what is written and go to a tradition that may be beneficial but cannot let me rest due to its logical deficiencies.

Of course, "believes" is in the present tense, is ongoing and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away, like a seed that was sown in rocky, shallow soil and never took root.

1. So, you agree the action must be ongoing--good, this was my argument, AND that it corresponds with "abiding", which is ongoing. Also, the one who is continuously presently abiding continuously presently receives the Spirit, and the one who is not does not.
2. The soil conditions aren't fixed heart conditions, they're possible conditions the heart can be in (eg, Heb 3 "hardened through the deceitfulness of sin" means "has become hardened" leading them to "fall away from the living God").

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you "have been" (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. To abide or remain confirms that our faith was firmly rooted and established from the start. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Nope, that's not why that says that.

When someone falls away in an irretrievable manner (some aren't irretrievable, some are--eg, the Heb 6 believers VS the audience Hebrews is written to, "we are persuaded of better things concerning you though we speak this way"), God "forgets their righteousness" (Ez 3:20)--in NT context, He forgets they ever had faith, which is counted as righteousness--so it is as though they had never been saved at all. They are blotted out. Christ is "The same yesterday, today and forever", doesn't cease the practice of blotting sinners out of His Book (Ex 32:33), so I see that He does the same still today--you would disagree.
Again, this is another flaw in your view, no matter how "helpful" it is on a practical level.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

I agree, but, as you can see, not for the same reasons.

 

[MatthewG]

I can't recommend bringing your difficulties with Scripture to God enough. All I ever found were questions. It took prayer to get answers.

Okay.

 

[GracePeace]

I can't recommend taking Scriptural (and otherwise) difficulties to God enough--I studied the Bible in a focused way for many years, and I was left broken by my complete inability to reconcile some of the Scriptures with some of the other Scriptures. I couldn't make them say something coherent and consistent. I got answers when I asked God, but I still, for years, didn't take it to heart. Then I got more of a grace of prayer talking with all of you (and ChristianChat), and all the pieces started falling in place. So don't waste years, take the shortcut and ask God to help you with difficulties.

 

[Peterlag]

Interesting opinion, but I read...

1 Thessalonians 4
3For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
4that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
5not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;
6that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you.
7For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness.
8Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but disregards God, Who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

I also read...

Psalm 51
11Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

It's not mere coincidence that David said this after having "wronged his brother", Uriah, by having slept with his wife, Bathsheba.

So, yes, the Spirit/eternal life/knowledge of God's glory is a gift we receive upon being justified by the righteousness of God of hearing with faith (eg, Gal 3:1-3), but, no, just because it is a gift doesn't mean He can't withdraw His Spirit if we displease Him (eg, justification is compromised by not walking in faith (Ro 14:5,23), since it is by righteousness that we are justified, but God's righteousness that justifies us is only revealed "from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17)--we abide in Him by both having faith in the Name of God's Son and by walking in faith, and those who abide receive the Spirit)--and, no, it doesn't mean people don't continue to merit more and more of the Spirit when they are walking in faith. The more and more steps that are taken in faith the more and more the Spirit is dispensed--and the Spirit is withdrawn to the degree that we are not having faith in God's Son and walking in love/faith (1 Jn 3:23,24).

Am I to understand that you think David was a Christian? That he had the spirit of Christ thousands of years before it was first given in Acts chapter 2?

 

[GracePeace]

Am I to understand that you think David was a Christian? That he had the spirit of Christ thousands of years before it was first given in Acts chapter 2?

You think God will continue supplying His Spirit to people who don't abide in Christ but commit immorality and wrong their brothers?

You know I'm telling God's Truth.

 

[GracePeace]

Moving this reply prayer forum.

 

[Peterlag]

You think God will continue supplying His Spirit to people who don't abide in Christ but commit immorality and wrong their brothers?

You know I'm telling God's Truth.

It's the "abide in Christ" that we first need to define if we are going to continue to communicate with each other. I believe "in Christ" means walking in our new nature after we have had "Christ in us" which is the new birth. What do you mean when you use "in him" and "Christ in you"?

 

[GracePeace]

It's the "abide in Christ" that we first need to define if we are going to continue to communicate with each other. I believe "in Christ" means walking in our new nature after we have had "Christ in us" which is the new birth. What do you mean when you use "in him" and "Christ in you"?

That's already been explained multiple times.

 

[GracePeace]

It's the "abide in Christ" that we first need to define if we are going to continue to communicate with each other. I believe "in Christ" means walking in our new nature after we have had "Christ in us" which is the new birth. What do you mean when you use "in him" and "Christ in you"?

I think I would agree with the idea that the method whereby we remain in Christ (in part, by "loving one another"--the second table of the Law of Faith) would be by "walking in our new nature"--as long as that isn't construed as being mutually exclusive with the idea that we "put off the old man" and "put on the new man".

 

[GracePeace]

@mailmandan Irrespective our disagreements, your view's emphasis on God's faithfulness and righteousness is edifying, and is either a or the correct way of viewing things.

 

[Peterlag]

I think I would agree with the idea that the method whereby we remain in Christ (in part, by "loving one another"--the second table of the Law of Faith) would be by "walking in our new nature"--as long as that isn't construed as being mutually exclusive with the idea that we "put off the old man" and "put on the new man".

Nope... we are not on the same page. Can't even get past your first sentence. To be "in Christ" is to be walking in our new nature and that has nothing to do with how we act.

 

[GracePeace]

Nope... we are not on the same page. Can't even get past your first sentence. To be "in Christ" is to be walking in our new nature and that has nothing to do with how we act.

I was going to entertain this, but I'm not really interested in unraveling and disproving all of your misconceptions and incorrect definitions--not to say that you don't know God, since He says we know Him because He is merciful, not because we have perfect doctrine (Jer 31:34)--so, carry on.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope... we are not on the same page. Can't even get past your first sentence. To be "in Christ" is to be walking in our new nature and that has nothing to do with how we act.

Amen

It’s to be producing fruit because you are attached to the vine. And God works through you by walking in the spirit.

That is what abiding in christ means. It’s not working to earn salvation or keep it.

 

[GracePeace]

Amen

It’s to be producing fruit because you are attached to the vine. And God works through you by walking in the spirit.

That is what abiding in christ means. It’s not working to earn salvation or keep it.

The two (bearing fruit and keeping salvation) aren't mutually exclusive.

It is technically true that if people don't eat they will die, but, under normal circumstances, people don't sit down to eat thinking they're saving themselves from death--and Jesus says His food is to do God's will.

In other words, it is correct to say we don't serve with fear, like slaves, but it's incorrect to say if we don't bear fruit it won't cost us being tossed in the fire.

 

[GracePeace]

@mailmandan Irrespective our disagreements, your view's emphasis on God's faithfulness and righteousness is edifying, and is either a or the correct way of viewing things.

@mailmandan I don't agree with the arguments you use to arrive at the trust, but the trust itself is not wrong.

 

[Peterlag]

Amen

It’s to be producing fruit because you are attached to the vine. And God works through you by walking in the spirit.

That is what abiding in christ means. It’s not working to earn salvation or keep it.

I think we are back on the same page... www.carb-fat.com/walking-by-the-spirit.html

 

[Peterlag]

I was going to entertain this, but I'm not really interested in unraveling and disproving all of your misconceptions and incorrect definitions--not to say that you don't know God, since He says we know Him because He is merciful, not because we have perfect doctrine (Jer 31:34)--so, carry on.

Yeah I know the whole thing is a mess. Folks don't know the difference between soul and spirit or that the new man has nothing to do with you flesh.