What do you think that means? To whom do you think the Spirit is testifying or bearing witness?
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
The Spirit testifies with our spirit.
Romans 8:16-19 NKJV
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
God word says..and that’s how I was Born Again....he testifies with our spirit that we are his children.
Now...if that has never happened to you....you couldn’t possibly understand it could you?
An amazing spiritual act,,,that only God can do...mind blowing...my testimony and belief.
The Holy Spirit lives in my spirit, and I know it 100% I’ve never had to search scripture to know it either.
God can birth his children without a Bible...as he is Alive in Spirit...he’s not a book....Praise God Always...there is no glory in you or I.
It’s God who brings us alive in his Spirit...never forget that!
New International Version
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
New Living Translation
For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.
English Standard Version
The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God
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I'm saying that faith in Christ and believing in Christ cannot be separated. Faith is created within fallen spiritually DEAD mankind, and that is the work of the Holy Spirit through the proclamation of the Gospel. Then through that power man will believe in Christ.
You say the Holy Spirit helps unregenerate mankind who is spiritually DEAD to muster up faith/believing when they hear the Gospel, thereby denying the power to have faith, believe and repent comes not from within DEAD men, but from without as the grace of God! In reality you believe DEAD mankind has the ability to eternally save themselves through their own good faith/believing! That is indeed nonsensical, and worse than that denies that it is God alone Who shall build His Kingdom!
Saying it does not make it true! Prove through the Word of God that DEAD unregenerate mankind has the ability to believe in Christ for eternal life apart from the power of the Word and Spirit. It is the Spirit who makes alive, the flesh profits nothing!
John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Galatians 6:8 (KJV) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Once more prove spiritually DEAD mankind has the ability to physically eternally save themselves?
I've proven from the Scripture what I believe Scripture teaches. Rather than asking me to prove what I already have, how about you proving from the Scripture how spiritually DEAD mankind can regenerate themselves?
John 8:43-45 (KJV) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Read of the meaning of the parable of the sower who sows seeds, where it is written that only those having ears to hear will hear. Certainly the unregenerate DEAD mankind has physical ears to hear! In what way did they lack the ability to hear for eternal life? If the heart is not prepared to receive the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, unregenerate DEAD mankind will NOT be eternally saved. All mankind can hear with physical hearing, but unless a work of God's grace through the Word and Spirit has opened their ears spiritually to hear, the Word of God will serve only to bring further condemnation and judgment to the hearers.
Luke 8:10-15 (KJV) And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
The birthing is spoken of in scripture...as in flesh gives birth to flesh...that is the human birth.
Then there is the amazing spiritual birth....where God births our spirit into,his.
It’s a birth that blew my mind ..something one could never/forget.....who could ever comprehend that...I think the rebirth is different for everyone...we must believe in Jesus for the birth to take place..and even God brings us to belief...and remember....I never said he believed for me.....he brought me to believe in the name of Jesus....by his mighty, mighty power.....we don’t have a clue how mighty full God’s power is.
Think about it, he knows what we’re going to do before we have done it...he knows beginning to the end.
Then there is the amazing spiritual birth....where God births our spirit into,his.
It’s a birth that blew my mind ..something one could never/forget.....who could ever comprehend that...I think the rebirth is different for everyone...we must believe in Jesus for the birth to take place..and even God brings us to belief...and remember....I never said he believed for me.....he brought me to believe in the name of Jesus....by his mighty, mighty power.....we don’t have a clue how mighty full God’s power is.
Think about it, he knows what we’re going to do before we have done it...he knows beginning to the end.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You haven't proven anything from Scripture, you have simply stated it.
I have not said one word about the foolishness of the spiritually dead regenerating themselves. Again you are reading that gibberish into it.
The issue is not who is doing the regenerating. That is God. The issue is who God is regenerating. And so far, you have failed to say who God is regenerating; nor have you given any indication that you know who God is regenerating. I, on the other hand, have said that God regenerates the one who believes, repents and is baptized. That is what is described in Acts 2.
Tell us, we wait with baited breath to hear your explanation of how unregenerate DEAD mankind can have faith/believing in Christ for eternal salvation??? You have repeatedly implied that eternal salvation is not through the power of the Gospel and Holy Spirit, but rather is by DEAD unregenerate mankind mustering up some imagined faith/belief they cannot while being DEAD!
Certainly sounds like Paul is speaking of the man regenerated by the Holy Spirit to me!
Romans 8:9 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
But you say, unregenerate man having not the Spirit of Christ in them has the ability to turn to Christ in faith/believing for everlasting life. Paul speaks very clearly and plainly when he says, "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." And without the Spirit of Christ in you, you are still in the flesh.
I have not said that, nor implied that, even once, let alone repeatedly. All I can get out of all of this, is that you really do not understand what it means when the Bible speaks about believing in God. You seem to be all confused about belief, believing, faith, having faith and all such related matters.
He is speaking to those who have already been regenerated. That whole passaged, Romans 8:12-17, is about being sons of God, not about becoming sons of God. The passage begins, with "So then, Brothers....."(v.12) Verse 17 then ends the passage speaking about being" fellow heirs with Christ".
None of that is speaking about how one becomes regenerated, i.e., born again.
If the Holy Spirit had no ability to communicate to the unregenerate, NONE would be saved. Where we differ in our understanding is how the unregenerate are saved. I believe Scripture affirms and have shown we are eternally saved by the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit working God's grace, imputing faith to the unregenerate, whereby the unregenerate responds through repentance believing. You argue that there is no difference between faith and believing. You view them as being the same thing and something unregenerate man MUST do. But what you cannot explain is how the unregenerate man who is spiritually DEAD is able to do this. You give the power of God's Word and Spirit lip service but deny the faith/believing IN Christ for eternal life comes by the free gift of God's saving grace! It appears you cling to the doctrine of free will! You assume without proving that spiritually Dead mankind has the ability through their free will to be eternally saved. That's why you argue there is no difference between faith and believing. That way you can argue that unregenerate DEAD sinners have this ability within them! The fact the Bible does not support this doctrine is why you cannot bring forth supporting Scripture for an unbiblical opinion.
The body falls
The soul does stand
Which was it first
The Soul or man?
If what we see, our spirit sees
Does not it have autonomy?
Of its nature, much is spoken
We see not more than just a token
Is all we glimpse, or think, or feel
More than a shadow of all that's real?
The body breathes, the Spirit leads
A symptom of duality
The soul does stand
Which was it first
The Soul or man?
If what we see, our spirit sees
Does not it have autonomy?
Of its nature, much is spoken
We see not more than just a token
Is all we glimpse, or think, or feel
More than a shadow of all that's real?
The body breathes, the Spirit leads
A symptom of duality
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Am I saying that Romans 8:16 is a description of regeneration?
What did God say.....not what I said...what does God testify with “ OUR SPIRIT “?
Did you read my post?...waiting for an answer to my question?
If one has never had the Spirit of God testify with our spirit that we are his children.
How could anyone understand it?.....you certainly don’t....do you actually read posts??
Or is everything on your terms?......when your ready to answer , get back to me...you firing your silly remarks at others and telling them they are wrong....is quite frankly showing your ignorance in the Living word of God....do you think your opinion is more valid than others...thankfully, I know it’s not!!
..God’s Spirit is Alive....which means what exactly?
As I posted ....counterfeit Born Again don’t understand the scripture below....therefore deny God’s “ LIVING” word.
(Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. |
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No I don't argue there is no difference between faith and believing. Faith is a noun and believe, or believing, is a verb. However, faith and belief both are translated/interpreted from the same Greek word "pistis". Clearly, there is no difference between faith and belief in the Bible. There is no verb form in English corresponding to the noun faith. In English the verb form equivalent is "have faith". That, in Greek is "echo pistis"; again, the same Greek word "pistis". In the Greek there is a verb form for "pistis"; it is "pisteuo". In the English, there is a difference between believing someone and believing in someone; likewise in the Greek there is a difference between" pisteuo"(believing) someone and "pisteuo en"(believing in) someone.
Thus, in the Bible, believing in Jesus Christ and having faith in Jesus Christ are exactly the same thing. There is no difference. You have conjured up a fictitious difference between the two to satisfy some equally fictitious doctrine which does not exist in Scripture.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
God brings us to believe in his Son Jesus..he draws us to Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me.
Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true. “.....which only God can bring us to believe in Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me...supernaturally act of God...
Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true. “.....which only God can bring us to believe in Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me...supernaturally act of God...
That is not the doctrine of free will. The only ones that think that are those who deny the free will of mankind, i.e., Calvinists, Augustinians, Reformed Theologians, those holding to the heresy of total depravity.
The spiritually dead has the ability, through their free will, to WANT to be saved. That is demonstrated again and again throughout the Bible. It was demonstrated by those hearing Peter's sermon on that first Pentecost in Acts 2.
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