Soul vs SPIRIT

[JBO]

God brings us to believe in his Son Jesus..he draws us to Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me.

Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true. “.....which only God can bring us to believe in Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me...supernaturally act of God...

That is your bogus definition. That is not the definition contained in the Greek as presented in the Scriptures.

 

[JBO]

As I posted ....counterfeit Born Again don’t understand the scripture below....therefore deny God’s “ LIVING” word.

I would advise you to never ever accuse anyone of counterfeit Born Again.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is your bogus definition. That is not the definition contained in the Greek as presented in the Scriptures.

Sounds like you are+working for salvation....word of advice...you will never find it that way.

You can’t birth yourself into Christ, through reading scripture.....only God can birth you in the Spirit....are you denying that?

As for God drawing me to Jesus, to believe in his name...i don’t care what you have read...you will never be able to believe in Jesus in your own strength..silly man.

 

[Ritajanice]

I would advise you to never ever accuse anyone of counterfeit Born Again.

Don’t play that silly fear card game with me you;silly man.

Perfect Love cast out all fear...

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." 1 John 4:18​

 

[JBO]

God brings us to believe in his Son Jesus..he draws us to Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me.

Faith involves reliance and trust, and it endures in the face of doubts, whereas belief is simply something we take to be true. “.....which only God can bring us to believe in Jesus....again, I didn’t say he believes for me...supernaturally act of God...

Having faith in God is not a supernatural act of God.

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The supernatural act of God is the giving of the written Revelation, the Word of God, the Scriptures.

 

[JBO]

Don’t play that silly fear card game with me you;silly man.

Perfect Love cast out all fear...

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." 1 John 4:18​

That is not a silly fear card. It is my advice that you refrain from trying to determine who is regenerated and who is not. That is quite beyond your capability and intellect.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is not a silly fear card. It is my advice that you refrain from trying to determine who is regenerated and who is not. That is quite beyond your capability and intellect.

And I suggest you read my posts....I NEVER insinuated no such thing regarding any member...therefore get your facts straight.

I too was once “ UNREGENERATE “ Praise God that he birthed me in the Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

Having faith in God is not a supernatural act of God.

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The supernatural act of God is the giving of the written Revelation, the Word of God, the Scriptures.

Pppppllllleeeeeaaaasssseeee!!!....

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[JBO]

You can’t birth yourself into Christ, through reading scripture.....only God can birth you in the Spirit....are you denying that?

I have never said or suggested otherwise. But then your concept of "birth in the Spirit" is a little out of wack. I am beginning to wonder if you have any understanding of what it even means to be born again.

 

[JBO]

Geez..it’s like speaking to a brick wall.

And you are the brick wall.

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

That is a serious misread and misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8-9. The Greek grammar will not permit the interpretation that faith is the gift there. The gift is salvation, not faith. Some mistakenly conclude that Ephesians 2:8 says faith is a gift: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” This is disproved, though, by the rules of Greek grammar. The Greek word for “faith” (pistis) is feminine in gender, but the Greek pronoun (touto, translated “that” or “this”), which refers to the gift that is given, is neuter in gender. If it were referring back to faith, it too would be feminine in form. The fact that it is grammatically neuter shows that it is not talking about faith. (There is no word in the Greek corresponding to the pronoun “it” in English translations.)

It is significant that this verse actually shows that faith is not a gift, since in it grace and faith are carefully distinguished. We are saved by grace, as God’s part; but we are saved through faith, as our part, as distinct from the grace given. Faith is not a gift of grace and the result of regeneration; it is a response to grace and a prerequisite to regeneration.

That faith precedes regeneration and is a prerequisite for it is specifically affirmed in Colossians 2:12, “Having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God.” Here it is important to see that “raised up with Him” refers to regeneration (see v. 13, “He made you alive together with Him”), and that faith is the means by which the regeneration is received: we are “raised . . . through faith.” The spiritually-dead unbeliever makes his decision to believe of his own free choice, moved by the power of the gospel, before being “raised up” to new life in regeneration. (See Ephesians 1:13-14, where “hearing” and “believing” are aorist participles, suggesting that these acts precede the action of the main verb, the sealing with the Spirit. See also Acts 5:32; 15:7-9; 16:30; 1 Peter 1:22.)

Thus in Colossians 2:12 Paul contradicts the heart of the Calvinist doctrine of salvation. The Calvinist system requires that regeneration must precede faith; but Paul says that faith must precede regeneration (resurrection to new spiritual life). It is not a gift of grace, but a condition for receiving grace.

 

[Ritajanice]

And you are the brick wall.

That is a serious misread and misunderstanding of Ephesians 2:8-9. The Greek grammar will not permit the interpretation that faith is the gift there. The gift is salvation, not faith. Some mistakenly conclude that Ephesians 2:8 says faith is a gift: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” This is disproved, though, by the rules of Greek grammar. The Greek word for “faith” (pistis) is feminine in gender, but the Greek pronoun (touto, translated “that” or “this”), which refers to the gift that is given, is neuter in gender. If it were referring back to faith, it too would be feminine in form. The fact that it is grammatically neuter shows that it is not talking about faith. (There is no word in the Greek corresponding to the pronoun “it” in English translations.)

It is significant that this verse actually shows that faith is not a gift, since in it grace and faith are carefully distinguished. We are saved by grace, as God’s part; but we are saved through faith, as our part, as distinct from the grace given. Faith is not a gift of grace and the result of regeneration; it is a response to grace and a prerequisite to regeneration.

You have just voiced your opinion and your own understanding of scripture.....you make being Born Again so complicated....when it’s so easy to understand....bye,bye.

I’ll leave you to @Behold ..he is the teacher , I’m not and he has much more patience than myself.

 

[JBO]

.bye,bye.

Thank you.

 

[JBO]

If the Holy Spirit had no ability to communicate to the unregenerate, NONE would be saved. Where we differ in our understanding is how the unregenerate are saved. I believe Scripture affirms and have shown we are eternally saved by the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit working God's grace, imputing faith to the unregenerate, whereby the unregenerate responds through repentance believing. You argue that there is no difference between faith and believing. You view them as being the same thing and something unregenerate man MUST do. But what you cannot explain is how the unregenerate man who is spiritually DEAD is able to do this. You give the power of God's Word and Spirit lip service but deny the faith/believing IN Christ for eternal life comes by the free gift of God's saving grace! It appears you cling to the doctrine of free will! You assume without proving that spiritually Dead mankind has the ability through their free will to be eternally saved. That's why you argue there is no difference between faith and believing. That way you can argue that unregenerate DEAD sinners have this ability within them! The fact the Bible does not support this doctrine is why you cannot bring forth supporting Scripture for an unbiblical opinion.

Go to my reply #190

 

[rwb]

No I don't argue there is no difference between faith and believing. Faith is a noun and believe, or believing, is a verb. However, faith and belief both are translated/interpreted from the same Greek word "pistis". Clearly, there is no difference between faith and belief in the Bible. There is no verb form in English corresponding to the noun faith. In English the verb form equivalent is "have faith". That, in Greek is "echo pistis"; again, the same Greek word "pistis". In the Greek there is a verb form for "pistis"; it is "pisteuo". In the English, there is a difference between believing someone and believing in someone; likewise in the Greek there is a difference between" pisteuo"(believing) someone and "pisteuo en"(believing in) someone.

Thus, in the Bible, believing in Jesus Christ and having faith in Jesus Christ are exactly the same thing. There is no difference. You have conjured up a fictitious difference between the two to satisfy some equally fictitious doctrine which does not exist in Scripture.

The difference that you refuse to acknowledge is that faith to believe IN Christ cannot come from the spiritually DEAD! But once the spiritually DEAD have this faith through the power of the Word and Spirit, then the spiritually DEAD are made spiritually ALIVE and turn to Christ in repentance believing. That's why Strong's Greek tells us that 'faith' is a noun, while 'believe' is a verb. I've already shown them.

So, while I agree that having faith IN Christ and believing IN Christ cannot be separated, because the faith we receive by God's grace will always be followed by the spiritually DEAD being made spiritually alive thereby believing. I do NOT agree with your understanding of faith/believing having no difference. The one (faith) comes from God, the other (believing) is the response that comes when the spiritually DEAD has been made spiritually alive. Hench why one is a noun (person, place or thing) the other a verb (shows action).

It is YOU who has conjured up a fictitious understanding of faith/believing so that you can cling to your doctrine of free will! The doctrine that insists that man can only be eternally saved, man that is spiritually DEAD, by mustering up the ability to cooperate with God's grace, thereby making eternal salvation dependent upon the work of fallen, DEAD man! The Bible is explicitly clear; Salvation if of the Lord!

 

[rwb]

That is not the doctrine of free will. The only ones that think that are those who deny the free will of mankind, i.e., Calvinists, Augustinians, Reformed Theologians, those holding to the heresy of total depravity.

The spiritually dead has the ability, through their free will, to WANT to be saved. That is demonstrated again and again throughout the Bible. It was demonstrated by those hearing Peter's sermon on that first Pentecost in Acts 2.

Actually the Bible is clear! Fallen, DEAD mankind has only the ability to freely choose that which according to his nature comes naturally to them. Without the Spirit within spiritually DEAD mankind have not ability to understand that which must be spiritually discerned. You say the spiritually DEAD have the ability through free will to submit to Christ for eternal life, yet once again you fail to Biblically prove what you allege.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:9 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[JBO]

yet once again you fail to Biblically prove what you allege.

And you think you have? That's a laugh.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:9 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

None of those say anything about the spiritually dead being unable to recognize their lostness and want to be saved. John 6:64 is speaking about Jesus Spirit and flesh, having nothing to do with with the spiritually dead. Romans 8:9 is speaking about the already born again and again has nothing about what the spiritually dead can and cannot do. 1 Corinthians 2:14 is not about the spiritually dead at all. That entire chapter is Paul's defense of his own divine inspiration as an apostle of Jesus Christ. The natural man in that passage is not the unregenerate, but rather the non-divinely inspired person, regenerated or not. That includes you and me; neither of us is divinely inspired.

 

[rwb]

And you think you have? That's a laugh.

None of those say anything about the spiritually dead being unable to recognize their lostness and want to be saved. John 6:64 is speaking about Jesus Spirit and flesh, having nothing to do with with the spiritually dead. Romans 8:9 is speaking about the already born again and again has nothing about what the spiritually dead can and cannot do. 1 Corinthians 2:14 is not about the spiritually dead at all. That entire chapter is Paul's defense of his own divine inspiration as an apostle of Jesus Christ. The natural man in that passage is not the unregenerate, but rather the non-divinely inspired person, regenerated or not. That includes you and me; neither of us is divinely inspired.

Yet once again you fail to Biblically prove what you allege.

 

[JBO]

Yet once again you fail to Biblically prove what you allege.

I biblically proved that you are wrong.

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 8:7-9​

Romans 8:7-9 NKJV​

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His

 

[Ritajanice]

The Born of God are in the Spirit, the Spirit ( Holy Spirit) is Alive And Active....they are in the Kingdom while on earth....they are in Gods spiritual realm....how would they know this....?

We preach the truth of God’s word and nothing can stop us....as we are being led by the Spirit to do the will of the Father.

In this case.....one must be Born Again !....that is what I am led to preach....any problems, I suggest you take it up with God.....NO ONE can stop the Living word of God to be preached.

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◄ John 3:3 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” New Living Translation Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.” English Standard Version Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Berean Standard Bible Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Berean Literal Bible Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God." King James Bible Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.