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The Bible.
See, only man is made in the image of God.
This is why the bible explains it.
The Bible says that Angles want to know all about this relationship that is between God and man... because they dont have it.
1 Peter 1:12 "they desire to know it, to understand it, etc, ect".
See, if they had it, they would not desire to know about it.
A.) They dont have it.
Let me give you few different Translations..
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Unto them it was revealed that they ministered, not unto themselves, but unto us the things which are now reported unto you by those who have preached the Gospel unto you, with the Holy Ghost sent down from Heaven — .things the angles desire to look into
ASV
To whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto you, did they minister these things, which now have been announced unto you through them that preached the gospel unto you by the Holy Spirit sent forth from heaven; = which things angels desire to look into.
AMP
It was revealed to them that their services [their prophecies regarding grace] were not [meant] for themselves and their time, but for you, in these things [the death, resurrection, and glorification of Jesus Christ] which have now been told to you by those who preached the gospel to you by the [power of the] Holy Spirit [who was] sent from heaven. = Into these things even the angels long to look.
AMPC
It was then disclosed to them that the services they were rendering were not meant for themselves and their period of time, but for you. [It is these very] things which have now already been made known plainly to you by those who preached the good news (the Gospel) to you by the [same] Holy Spirit sent from heaven. = Into these things [the very] angels long to look!
BRG
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
CSB
Perhaps I am missing something, but I see nothing there that says anything about angels not being made in the image of God. I am not saying that angels are made in the image of God, but I haven't seen anything in the scriptures to say they weren't.
1.) Ok, let me show you how to see it..
1/3 of the Angles in heaven, when Lucifer was there, = "fell"..
They sinned. They became "fallen angels".... They followed the rebellion that had originally started as "iniquity was found in him".. = in Lucifer's evil heart.
They joined his SIN in heaven, exactly as Adam did, also... on earth.
A.) all sin is as the sin of rebellion.
Lucifer was the original REBEL, and all of us became this nature and remain so, until we are BORN....again, and receive the divine nature.
So, they are your first sinner(s) , not Adam.
Adam and Bride... were the first to sin on EARTH.
Lucifer and the angels that "fell" were the first to sin.... period.
= .and what happened?
They all "fell" and they were all cast out of Heaven.
So, now you have sinning angels and their Leader, who was Lucifer...
Lucifer was a specific type of "heavenly host".. He was an anointed Cherub.
2.) Have you ever seen a rendition of the Ark of the Covenant? You have 2 winged angels on either side. And those are Cherubs... same as Lucifer, before he "FELL"..
Jesus said, "I beheld Satan FALL as lightning " and that is Luke 10:18.
So, here is what you have to see.. You have to understand that a Cherub is not a Human.. is not a Man.
You have to understand that MAN was made long after Lucifer was created.
You have to understand that Angels and Lucifer, were of the "heavenly host"....... created there, and are not Human.
Man, was created on Earth, in the "image of God". Angels are not.
3.) Notice that the Angles and Lucifer had sin, and "fell". They are FALLEN Angles.
Adam, also "fell" and became in His nature,= "the adamic nature" or the carnal nature of sin., and that is the Devil's nature.
So, here is the thing... ... We see that Lucifer and the Angels are fallen, and Adam is also Fallen.
The angles have sin, as does Lucifer, and Adam sinned.
Now, Jesus died on the Cross for SINNERS...., and none of the Angles, nor Lucifer were offered Salvation and forgiveness for their sin.
Why?
Because they are not "made in God's image", = they are not Human.
A.) God is not an Angel, nor is man.
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The spirit is the breath of life! Without spirit there is no physical life, which is why every living breathing creature as well as human beings is a living soul. What only men/women of faith have that other living breathing creatures do not have is the Spirit of Christ in us, giving us ETERNAL spiritual life in Christ.
How does a man/woman spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" obtain faith IN Christ to believe Him? What of mankind is DEAD before being saved?
According to Paul we had to be made alive (quickened) by the Holy Spirit when we were spiritually dead to believe IN Christ for salvation.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you (hath he quickened), who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: (it is) the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Grace of God makes us acceptable before Him, thereby supernaturally creating faith in those who were spiritually dead, so they might believe IN Christ for eternal life. It has to be a supernatural act of God's grace on no man would be eternally saved!
Who has argued that angels or Satan were or shall be saved? In fact the point I made proves that devils believing Christ does not mean they have saving faith!
Your phrase "obtain fiath in Christ to believe Him" is not a rational phrase. You are assigning a meaning to the word "faith" which is not correct either in English or in Greek. Faith in Christ is belief in Christ. As I noted, both faith and belief are from the same Greek word.
That is not true. Yes, we were made alive (quickened by the Holy Spirit) when we were spiritually dead. But it is the result of our believing in Christ, not the cause of it. To believe in Christ is one and the same has having faith in Christ. They mean the same exact thing.
Faith is not the gift spoken of in Ephesians 2:8-9; rather the gift is being saved by grace through faith. The gift is salvation. Faith is the means through which we are saved by grace. We do not obtain faith in being made alive. We are made alive through having faith in Christ. So where do we get such faith.
For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith (believing in Him) comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ (Rom 10:13-17).
No it isn't! If that were true than Paul telling us we are saved by grace through faith when we were spiritually dead makes ZERO sense! While I agree faith in Christ is believing in Christ, but that faith/believing comes to spiritually DEAD man supernaturally by God's grace.
FAITH: Strong's Greek Dictionary
4102. πίστις pistis (pístis)
Search for G4102 in KJVSL; in KJV.
πίστις pístis, pis'-tis
from G3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:—assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
feminine noun
BELIEVE: Strong's Greek Dictionary
4100. πιστεύω pisteuo (pisteúō)
Search for G4100 in KJVSL; in KJV.
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o
from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
verb
The ability to believe IN Christ for eternal life comes only through faith man attains by grace through the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit supernaturally. That's why Scripture tells us "Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word (Gospel) of God".
Romans 10:13-17 (KJV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith in Christ and believing in Christ cannot be separated! But faith to believe in Christ is NOT something that spiritually DEAD mankind naturally possesses. We cannot believe in Christ without the power of the Word and Spirit. Unless the Holy Spirit gives us spiritual life by creating faith to believe in Christ for eternal life, we have no spiritual understanding.
Romans 8:9 (KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
You fail to explain how man spiritually dead in trespasses and sins might have this faith to believe in Him! Eternal salvation is the free gift of God. This gift comes to whosoever shall believe in Christ for salvation. How shall they believe in Him? Through the power of the Gospel and Holy Spirit. Without being quickened (made alive) by grace through faith, no man will be eternally saved, because none will believe in Christ to be saved. As you've said, man must believe IN Christ for eternal life.
To believe in Him is faith. You have somehow for some reason assigned a meaning to the word faith which is simply not biblical. The entire Bible given us by God through the Holy Spirit is everything you need to know to believe in Him, to have faith in Him. That is what Paul said in Romans 10. When Paul said that, hearing that message from a preacher was about the only way. Now of course we have the written word of God that we can read, study and come to believe.
The perfect example of being born again is given in Acts 2:38. It comes by first believing God's word about Jesus, that He is the Son of God and gave Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world.. Believing that to be the case, knowing that one is a sinner needing salvation brings repentance. That was precisely where the listeners to that first sermon by Peter were when they cried out (Acts 2:37), "Brothers, what shall we do?" His answer, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
That is born of water and Spirit.
You still have yet to explain how one who is spiritually DEAD in trespasses and sins can hear the message about Christ to be eternally saved? What had those of Acts 2 heard that caused them to be "pricked in their heart" and ask what they must do to be saved? They heard the Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit. THEN they were convicted, repented and believed. They did not have faith IN Christ to believe IN Christ until they heard the Gospel in the power of the Spirit. That is why their hearts were pricked and they asked what they must do to be saved. Many spiritually dead people hear the Gospel preached and remain in darkness and unbelief, why, if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Gospel? Because spiritually dead people can only hear and receive faith in Christ to believe in Christ through the power of His Word and Spirit! Whosoever becomes eternally saved, are saved by the power of God working in them. That is GRACE!
Acts 2:22-24 (KJV) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2:36-38 (KJV) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
First, the spiritually dead do not suffer any particular physical ability. They do not gain any physical abilities when they are born again. Becoming born again, i.e., regenerated, does not produce any sudden increases in intellect or wisdom.
Second, there is nothing keeping the Holy Spirit from helping the unregenerate. In fact, John in Chapter 16 of his gospel, tells us that Jesus said:
"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged" (John 16:7-11).
Notice that Jesus said that the Helper, i.e., the Holy Spirit, would convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. The world is not the born again; rather the world, as used again and again in scripture, signifies the unregenerate.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you say " they did not have faith IN Christ to believe IN Christ.....". That is a non-sensical statement. To believe in Christ is to have faith in Christ; to have faith in Christ is to believe in Christ. There is no difference. They mean the same exact thing.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Just had another revelation.
Yes, as a new babe and even further into my walk.....we can be led by our emotions, Brother.
God showed me that.....we are to be led by the Holy Spirit.....?
Mind, will,emotions, were the old man in us?
The new man is Christ in our spirit?
We are all members of the “race” of fallen Adam. In this corporate man, also called the “old man” in the Scriptures (Eph. 4:22; Rom. 6:6), we see many characteristics such as pride, selfishness, anger, lust, and vainglory. Although we may think there are many kinds of men, in God’s view, all fallen mankind is part of the old man, the corporate Adam, who was crucified on the cross with Christ.
The new man is of the new creation, which is God's old creation with the element of God added to it. When we are regenerated, God's life and nature enter us, and we become a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17). This is the beginning of the new man.
This is called being Born of God........we must be Born of God, through His Spirit.....which is supernatural....
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
God does not recognise the unregenerate as his own....of course he may be drawing them to Jesus....until they are birthed by His Spirit, they are still in darkness and sin.,.
You cannot see God’s Kingdom...not until one becomes Born from Above and only God’s hand can do that....in Jesus Name....Amen!!
1. not regenerate; not renewed in heart and mind or reborn in spirit; unrepentant. an unregenerate sinner. 2. refusing to believe in the existence of God.
You cannot see God’s Kingdom...not until one becomes Born from Above and only God’s hand can do that....in Jesus Name....Amen!!
1. not regenerate; not renewed in heart and mind or reborn in spirit; unrepentant. an unregenerate sinner. 2. refusing to believe in the existence of God.
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While it is true the spiritually dead have the ability to physically hear, physically hearing does NOT have the ability to eternally save mankind. Man MUST be born again to both know and enter the Kingdom of God. That's why physical birth does not eternally save man. Christ sent His Spirit to physically alive man that they might hear the Gospel of Christ through the power of His Spirit. Christ is very clear, He sent His Spirit into the world because fallen mankind could not eternally save themselves. Christ plainly says of the world, "because they believe NOT in Me." Fallen mankind is without conviction of sin, which unbelief is, without knowing their need for Christ. They could not have faith in to believe in Christ, whom they do not know!
John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see [know] the kingdom of God.
John 3:5-8 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
You say, "there is nothing keeping the Holy Spirit from helping the unregenerate." That is the point I've been making throughout. It is only through the power of the Word and Spirit that fallen, unregenerate mankind is supernaturally born again. Man had to first have faith in Christ, for them to believe in Him. This power of having faith and belief does not come to mankind through natural/physical process! It is by God's grace through faith ALONE! When faith is supernaturally created within man, the supernatural outcome is believing IN Christ for eternal life. Because as you've said having faith IN Christ is to believe IN Christ. That's why Scripture assures us that whosoever believes in Christ shall be eternally saved.
John 1:12-13 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
That is a nonsensical statement. It is like saying that one must have blond hair to have blond hair.
Joh 1:12 (ESV) But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
We hear, we believe, we repent, we are baptized, our sins are forgiven and we receive the gift (the indwelling) of the Holy Spirit. Being forgiven of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is being born again. To be born again is to be saved.
Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
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It only appears nonsensical to you because you believe those who are spiritually DEAD in trespasses and sins have the ability within themselves to muster up faith in Christ thereby believing Him.
Yet, still you cannot explain where this ability to have faith to believe IN Christ originates from the DEAD! Even though you acknowledge the Holy Spirit was sent to regenerate unregenerate man, you deny the power of the Gospel and Christ's Spirit to supernaturally eternally save whosoever shall believe?
Before we have been born again of His Spirit in us, we are SPIRITUALLY DEAD! How do the DEAD hear? How do the DEAD believe? How do the DEAD repent? Explain how any of this is possible for the unregenerate who are DEAD! You cannot explain how the spiritually DEAD can have that which is spiritually discerned because this natural/physical ability you espouse is found NOWHERE in Scripture!
You argue against the Word of God! Eternal salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, the gift; eternal life by God alone, through the power that does not come from the will of man, but by the will of Almighty God Alone. To God be ALL glory, honor and power...AMEN!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
While the spiritually dead, they can only hear through the Spirit.....they don’t physically hear....God testifies with our spirit that we are his children.
Therefore he does not testify to our physical...he testifies to our spirit that is then transferred to our minds ...that is the word of God.
The body is just a shell, that houses the soul and spirit.
May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23 NRSV
Therefore he does not testify to our physical...he testifies to our spirit that is then transferred to our minds ...that is the word of God.
The body is just a shell, that houses the soul and spirit.
May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23 NRSV
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. New Living Translation For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. English Standard Version The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, |
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It doesn't appear nonsensical; it is nonsensical. You are saying that we need to have faith in Christ so that we can have faith in Christ.
God does not regenerate the unbeliever and then they believe. God regenerates those who believe and have repented.
The spiritually dead are not physically limited in any way whatsoever. They have all their physical senses and all their physical abilities, NOWHERE in Scripture does it say that the dead in trespasses and sins cannot hear and understand. More importantly, you are arguing that God is incapable of communicating with the spiritually dead. That is simply not true.
There is not a verse or a passage that says or even suggests that eternal salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. If you think there is, then post it so that we can discuss it.
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