OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Ritajanice]

Elijah went and hid. and God came,,Then Elijah went to a cave. and God came there too

Then God told him to go do something, and Elijah did it..

You know Brother..that really spoke to me.

What ever made me think I could hide from God at one time.

I tell you another thing...I used to plan it all out to God and tell him how it was going to happen..hahalol...

When I look back...I bet he was laughing his socks off at me.....I’ve certainly learnt that God is the Perfect Planner....I just take a back seat now..lol..

 

[Ritajanice]

No, it's not. LOL

A is A. A is not > A.


You want to confuse the trustworthiness of God with our free will to choose to sin - evern after repenting to Christ.

Amd I almost did not notice that you did not actually answer my questions.

This is so confusing what is being said here above.

Let me give you the Living word of God...

8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Amen!!

Sister..you are a breath of fresh air!....full of God’s Living word..a joy to read.

Brother, actually. Zoe is my wife. :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You know Brother..that really spoke to me.

What ever made me think I could hide from God at one time.

I tell you another thing...I used to plan it all out to God and tell him how it was going to happen..hahalol...

When I look back...I bet he was laughing his socks off at me.....I’ve certainly learnt that God is the Perfect Planner....I just take a back seat now..lol..

I like the psalm of David Ps 139:

Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall [d]fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is so confusing what is being said here above.

Let me give you the Living word of God...

8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

I believe he takes this passage as written in english text..

John is saying no one born of God will live in sin, or habitually sin.. like the world does..

he does nto say they will never sin again.. He would be contradicting himself from 1 John 1: 8

 

[Ritajanice]

Brother, actually. Zoe is my wife. :)

Oops....LOL.

Brother...can you also explain about the hardening of our heart ..do you believe we as Born Again can harden our heart?

I haven’t quite got a firm understanding on this hardening...I think I may have contradicted myself..just being honest.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe he takes this passage as written in english text..

No understanding in the Spirit then?

John is saying no one born of God will live in sin, or habitually sin.. like the world does..

he does nto say they will never sin again.. He would be contradicting himself from 1 John 1: 8

Amen!

 

[Ritajanice]

We can be such stubborn children when we hold onto flesh things.

I think I’ve just had another reminder...it needs to truly penetrate my heart Lord....then I wouldn’t keep repeating the same over and over and over...

This flesh...is such a pain!!!...I wish you would completely rid me of it Lord.

Mind you it’s nothing like it used to be...back in the day, I was a raving lunatic...Bonkers I was...Praise God it’s more about him these days than it is about me!!

 

[marks]

You know Brother..that really spoke to me.

What ever made me think I could hide from God at one time.

I tell you another thing...I used to plan it all out to God and tell him how it was going to happen..hahalol...

When I look back...I bet he was laughing his socks off at me.....I’ve certainly learnt that God is the Perfect Planner....I just take a back seat now..lol..

I like the psalm of David Ps 139:

Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall [d]fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

One of the more transformational truths in my life was realizing that I'm never hidden from God. Romans 6 says we are dead to sin and alive to God, so at every moment I am living my life in front of my Father.

Psalm 139 is great,

Psalms 139:11-14 KJV
11) If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12) Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13) For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14) I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

"For", a word of causation.

He is everywhere I go, there is no where I can go that He is not there, cannot see me. There is no hiding in the shadows from Him, He is here with me always, His eyes upon me,

For, because,

Psalms 139:12-14 LITV
12) Even the darkness will not be dark from You, but the night shines as the day; as is the darkness, so is the light.
13) For You have possessed my inward parts; You wove me in the womb of my mother.
14) I will thank You, for with awesome ways I am distinguished; Your works are marvelous, and my soul knows it very well.

God crafted me from cells of conception,

Psalms 139:15-18 LITV
15) My bones were not hidden from You when I was made in secret; when I was woven in the depths of the earth.
16) Your eyes saw my embryo; and in Your book all my members were written the days they were formed, and not one was yet among them.
17) And how precious are Your thoughts to me, O God! How great is the sum of them!
18) If I should count them, they are more than the sand; when I awake I am still with You.

His fingers formed me, and He has never left me for a moment. He made me, I am His, and I will never be apart from Him.

What a great meditation for this morning!

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

WE MUST get in our bibles again

Yes, by all means get into them Bibles.

Just make sure it’s the Holy Spirit who is leading....and bringing God’s child to the full understanding of what it means, to read that “ Living “ word in the Spirit.

And not the Spirit of Joe Bloggs.or Sara Jane.

 

[marks]

Previously, many of us had interpreted passages like John 15 in a certain way. We used to think that when Jesus said "My disciples are liable to remain on the vine," He meant that it was possible for them to fall away from the faith. However, I now understand that Jesus meant something different. He meant that His disciples have the potential to remain on the vine, and that those whom God has chosen will definitely remain on the vine. As we saw in the passages above, God's will removes all uncertainty and guarantees that His chosen ones will stay faithful.

@L.A.M.B.

When we talk about abiding in Christ, we shouldn't include presuppositions of changeable states.

When Jesus said, if a man abide not in me, he is cast forth from being a branch, and men gather them to burn them, some think to themselves, "well, if a man abide not in Christ, it means he's lost his salvation", presuming that the man previously had abided in Christ.

But it's like saying, if a man doesn't live in New York, he will cannot vote in New York. It doesn't mean that the man once did, only, if he doesn't, he can't.

There are three branches named in John 15, the first two are said to be "in Me", the third is not. We shouldn't assume He meant something different.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Of course, it is a free will choice. But God's transformation of the will is his preemptive act of Grace as Paul indicates here.

Sure Gods Grace is established peeemptive, (ie) Before ANY change is MADE in a man, by, through, of the Power of God.

In other words, BY and Because of Gods Grace all men naturally BORN IN SIN, have an OPPORTUNITY to Be MADE reconciled unto God, ONCE and FOREVER.

Gods Grace is not in dispute.

What IS disputed IS: “ONCE” (by, through, of the Lord God,) He SAVES a mans soul, He QUICKENS a mans spirit, He PROMISES their body to Be Raised IN Glory…
Either…Or …
#1 God lies and REVOKES His Works.
Which is NOT possible (Heb 6:18)
Or
#2 A man CAN REVOKE Gods Works.
Which is NOT possible (John 10:28)
Or
#3 Gods Works of SALVATION IN a man IS NEVER REVOKED <—->ie OSAS.

Romans 9:14-18

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.​

Paul defeats the idea that God must depend on MY choice to be saved.

You mentioned Gods Grace.
Paul is speaking of Gods Mercy and Gods compassion.
You express Gods Mercy and Gods compassion VOIDS your freewill option FOR YOU to Choose God…

YET…Scripture itself SAYS it is YOUR CHOICE, for YOU TO CHOOSE, and a Blessing unto those WHO DO CHOOSE. (Ie ELECT God..

Josh 24:15…choose you this day….
1 Thes. 1:4….your election of God…

If I am to be saved, I will, of course, choose to be saved. But prior to my choice is God's work in my heart, transforming my thoughts and intentions.

Okay, Choosing is your option.
God gives his TRUTHFUL KNOWLEDGE, and has established ways and means for all men to Hear, Learn, His words of knowledge…
And God blessing men (with measures of FAITH) FOR THEIR HEARING.
The Continued Hearing is mans option.
The Choice to Believe what he Hears is mans option.
God Does not CHANGE mens MINDS thoughts.
Gods CHANGES the Hearts thoughts “OF” a converted man.

Also, Jesus' parable of the sower illustrates this principle. Three out of the four soils resulted in belief after hearing the word. But only one soil resulted in the perseverance of faith. In this parable, the soil represents the heart of an individual.

Disagree.
A man is CREATED…
Once a Naturally Born man is naturally BORN, he is MADE by RECEIVES a LIVING SOUL…
The soul belongs to God (but is Identified with the mans bodily name).
The LIFE in the soul belongs to God (IS Gods Breath).
A Living soul IN a Living man, MAKES:
A mans ears to hear.
A mans eyes to see.
A mans mouth to sound/speak.
A mans tongue to taste.
A mans flesh to feel touch.

Sometimes referenced as A mans senses.
Sometimes referenced as A mans sub-conscious (which collects, stores, ALL information by, through, of the mans senses, NOT discriminating Truth and Lies.)

The HEART is where a mans NATURAL spirit is, which IS expressly the TRUTH of that man.

And WHY, IF and WHEN a man EVER Chooses to Believe IN God, it VALID if it is in his natural spirit in his Heart.
And WHY, IF and WHEN a man EVER Chooses to Confess His Belief to God, it is VIA a mans Natural spirit (truth), to Gods Spirit (TRUTH).

It is Specifically a mans soul that is SAVED, via RESTORATION (pss 23:3)
It is Specifically a mans heart that is Circumcised…the man given a new heart….given a new BIRTHED spirit, VIA having received Gods Seed…
Examples;
Rom 2:29
Ezek 19:31
Ezek 36:26
Luke 8:11

Some hearts are ready to hear and believe the word; other hearts are willing to believe but not able to persevere in belief. Only the soil (heart)

Body, Soul, Spirit are three different things that make up the whole of a natural man.
A Restored soul, Quickened (born again) Spirit and Promise of a Body raised in Glory (holy/sinless) is called a Reconciled, Healed, WHOLE man.

that has been cultivated (prepared) to receive the seed (word) will bear fruit (persevere). Everyone who believes in the word, makes a free will choice to believe it. But God must first prepare the heart to persevere in faith. God did not prepare the hearts of those who fell away.

Not sure what you mean by God FIRST “prepares” a heart to persevere in faith…

A man CHOOSES to Hear.
A man WHO IS HEARING is gifted with “MEASURES” of Gods gift of FAITH.
Any man can walk away, Hear no more, Receive no more faith…and is called: Having fallen from Faith.

Since a man CAN fall from FAITH….how is that man being FIRST prepared to persevere?
(Ie his belief, will be maintained?)

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, by all means get into them Bibles.

Just make sure it’s the Holy Spirit who is leading....and bringing God’s child to the full understanding of what it means, to read that “ Living “ word in the Spirit.

And not the Spirit of Joe Bloggs.or Sara Jane.

Most folks are already under the guise of men and not of GOD .
The simple truth can be found in the scriptures . IF any comes and twists the reminders to suit
a teaching of men then rest assured THERE IS THE PROBLEM .
We gotta see the simpicity of it . They wrote all letters to BELIEVERS . thus all believers need to take heed
to all that was written . I have watched men try and twist hebrews , what paul also wrote , what peter even wrote
TO Fit a concept men brought . NOPE they warned the church and we must do the same .
Is it any wonder why so many now sit under men and cry , WE cannot understand this bible .
CAUSE MEN twisted it through their own doctrines and thus CONFUSION has set in .
And now most holler YE gotta sit under our men to learn such and such . Actaully NO YA DONT .
ITs quite clear what is written in the bible . NO wonder people can be so easily decieved .
Think about this . IF i came along and taught something and then when the scripture itself clearly proved me wrong
BUT THEN I SAID , NO WAIT , you gotta see it as i explain it , etc my hermeunitics , my this or that
and then make it appear to imply Its not meaning what it says or that what it says DONT apply to BELEIVERS
THEN I GOT YOU ALLL DUPED BIG TIME . The words in them letters DO apply to BELIEVERS .
OR ELSE LOOK OUT CAUSE I CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHATEVER I WANT TO APPLY TO BELEIVERS
AND THEN CLAIM THIS OR THAT DONT APPLY . ANYONE CAN DO THIS . WE MUST HEED THEM NOT .

 

[CadyandZoe]

Oops....LOL.

Brother...can you also explain about the hardening of our heart ..do you believe we as Born Again can harden our heart?

I haven’t quite got a firm understanding on this hardening...I think I may have contradicted myself..just being honest.

I don't think that a genuine born-again individual can harden his or her heart to such a degree that he or she falls away from the faith.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@L.A.M.B.

When we talk about abiding in Christ, we shouldn't include presuppositions of changeable states.

When Jesus said, if a man abide not in me, he is cast forth from being a branch, and men gather them to burn them, some think to themselves, "well, if a man abide not in Christ, it means he's lost his salvation", presuming that the man previously had abided in Christ.

But it's like saying, if a man doesn't live in New York, he will cannot vote in New York. It doesn't mean that the man once did, only, if he doesn't, he can't.

There are three branches named in John 15, the first two are said to be "in Me", the third is not. We shouldn't assume He meant something different.

Much love!

I'm not sure I understand your analogy. Can you fill it out more for me?

 

[marks]

I'm not sure I understand your analogy. Can you fill it out more for me?

It's just to say that if I say, I don't abide in the White House (live there), you shouldn't necessarily think I once did, and then say I lost my residence, because I don't abide in the White House.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

I don't think that a genuine born-again individual can harden his or her heart to such a degree that he or she falls away from the faith.

I 100% agree..as @Eternally Grateful testimony showed us....Praise God!!

The Holy Spirit was always in him, he just needed to work through some stuff...I can 100% relate to his testimony as well.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You mentioned Gods Grace.
Paul is speaking of Gods Mercy and Gods compassion.
You express Gods Mercy and Gods compassion VOIDS your freewill option FOR YOU to Choose God…

Does it? I don't think it does. I don't think God voids our will. But he does renew our minds, gives us new purpose, gives us unique preferences, sets the course of our lives in a new direction, and reconciles us to God so that we fear God, love God, love the brethren, seek first the kingdom, make peace, and grant mercy and forgive others. Having been endowed with new knowledge, a new perspective, and a new motivation, I freely choose to love him and obey him.

Paul's point is simple. Salvation does not depend on the will of man because God can harden anyone he wants to harden. The corollary to that, I think, is that the Father can soften any heart he wants to soften. Whether or not a particular heart is soft or hard is according to God's will. This is his decision alone according to his plan.

The miracle of salvation includes renewal, repair, and reorientation of the will of man. Our pleasures are different, our preferences are different, our disposition is different, and our inclinations are different. Every aspect of our will that informs our choices is being transformed from day to day. We walk with Christ because we want to. And why do we want to? We were granted the miracle of salvation as I described above. By the miracle of the Father, we are becoming a new people, with new likes, new dreams, new preferences, new sagacity, and new discernment.

If I have a hard heart, I don't have any of that. But at the moment God softens my heart, I begin to receive all of the above and a lot more. Freedom of the will means that I am free to give expression of who I am; but who I am is in the purview of God alone.

YET…Scripture itself SAYS it is YOUR CHOICE, for YOU TO CHOOSE, and a Blessing unto those WHO DO CHOOSE. (Ie ELECT God..

I agree. God has set the course of my life, which means that I will need to make choices along the way. But my choices are not "free" choices unless they indicate MY values, My desires, MY preferences, My discernment, MY knowledge, etc. If God is saving me, he will perform the miracle of "the new man" such that my values will become HIS values, my preferences will become HIS preferences, my desires will become HIS desires. Yes?

Consider what our Apostle said in his epistle to the Romans.

Romans 8:9

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.​

According to Paul, the primary attribute indicative of those whom God is saving is whether or not the Spirit of God dwells in a particular individual. He also includes a similar attribute involving the Spirit of Christ. If these essential and primary attributes are mine, then Paul assures me that God will give life to my mortal body. I will be saved. Without exception or contingency, anyone who has the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ will be given life in the age of ages.

What is the "spirit of Christ"? Paul defines what he means further down in the text.

Romans 8:15-17

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.​

While the expression "Abba Father" sounds like a term of endearment, Paul means something entirely different here. To understand Paul's meaning all one needs to do is remember where we have heard that expression before.

Mark 14:35-37

And He went a little beyond them, and fell to the ground and began to pray that if it were possible, the hour might pass Him by. And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.” And He *came and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, “Simon, are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour?​

The underlying motivation of Jesus, commonly referred to as the "spirit" of Christ, was his unwavering desire to carry out the Father's will. The distinguishing factor that marks those whom God is granting salvation is that they possess the same attitude as Jesus Christ. Jesus, despite facing great difficulties, surrendered his own will to fulfill his Father's will. In the same way, if we are to be saved by God, we must also submit our will to his will, even in the face of hardship. Abba Father, may your will be done.

As you might see, a lot changes when the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in an individual.

Disagree.
A man is CREATED…

The new man is being created. :) It begins with a new birth (from above.)

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's just to say that if I say, I don't abide in the White House (live there), you shouldn't necessarily think I once did, and then say I lost my residence, because I don't abide in the White House.

Much love!

I understand now. Thanks.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

This is 1 John 3:8

If you are not going to post where the bible verse comes from, many will not know where the verse can be found in God's Word.