The 144,000 before God at the end.

[David in NJ]

I see no indication that the Church is raptured then. Additionally, the verse you quote is not about the Church being gathered from the earth, as they are gathered from heaven. The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and announces the fall fruit harvest of the 6th seal and is not a trumpet blown by an angel. Additionally, there will be many trumpets blown on the Feast of Tabernacles throughout the millennialism, as it is feast that will occur every year, hence, the 7th tumpet blown by an angel is not the last trump.

If you cannot SEE the rapture of the Church in 1 Cor ch15, you need to reevaluate what you believe.
God spoke STRAIGHTFORWARD Truth in the Gospel that a child can understand.

We are not living under the Old Covenant of the Feasts.
We are under the New Covenant whereby ALL the Feasts are fulfilled in Christ.
Worshipping Israel of the flesh, who are in bondage with her children, will only cause erroneous conclusions of Scripture.

Get on the side of Truth = submit to God resist man-made doctrines and you will begin to SEE as God gives you the ability.

 

[The Light]

Other scripture says the resurrection happens just before the rapture.

We have one scripture in 1 Thes 4 that says the dead in Christ are raised first and then the alive believers that remained will be caught up. Then we have another scripture in 1 Corinthians 15 that says the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. And neither of them happens at the 7th trumpet blown by an angel.

The gathering or rapture is of living people on the Earth up to the clouds.

The gathering is from heaven and earth according to the Word. Consider this verse.

Matthew 24
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The last trump of prophecy is the last of 7, where Christ returns at the last of them. That is when the resurrection and rapture occur.

There is a barley harvest, Passover. There is a wheat harvest. Pentecost. and there is a fruit harvest. Feast of Trumpets. Until you understand Gods harvest feasts, you will not understand end times.

The feast of tabernacles is not mentioned in end times prophecy. The only trumpets that are mentioned are the 7 in Rev so the last trump Paul wrote of is that 7th trump.

We don't only look in the prophecy chapters to find end times prophecy, Here we see that the Feast of Tabernacles is kept during the Millennial Kingdom. There are trumpets blown on the Feast of Tabernacles so this last trump of an angel is not the last trump that will be blown on the earth. That said, the Jews know what the last trump is as it is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

Zech 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[David in NJ]

Stay with the contexts.

Much love!

Which context do you not understand?
Acts 3:19-26 or Matt 9:11-13

 

[The Light]

If you cannot SEE the rapture of the Church in 1 Cor ch15, you need to reevaluate what you believe.

1 Cor 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Why would I possibly see the rapture of the Church in 1 Cor 15? If I had no understanding, well of course I would see the rapture of the Church. However, I notice that the dead and alive are changed at the twinkling of an eye. If it was the Church the dead in Christ would rise first and the alive that remained would be caught up when the Lord returned for them as the alive will not precede the dead. And God will bring the dead with Him when He comes for the alive. I also notice that this rapture in 1 Cor 15 happens at the last trump. I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets a fall harvest feast. The Church will be raptured in the summer, hence "summer is near". I also note that the fall feasts are for the Jews. The spring-summer feasts are for the Church. Oh yes, most claim that Christ fullfilled the spring-summer feast but that is not true as there has been no harvest. I also note that when the fall harvest feast for the 12 tribes occurs it will be like the days of Lot as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. If this was about the Church, It would be like the days of Noah. I also note that when the Lord comes during the fall feast He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. If this was the rapture of the Church, the Lord Himself would come. There more as to why it cannot be the Church being discussed in 1 Cor 15 but that should be a good start.

God spoke STRAIGHTFORWARD Truth in the Gospel that a child can understand.

I understand that we are supposed to come God like children, but after that the Lord begins a work in us that He will complete. It includes an education in faith and overcoming. Without faith it is impossible to please him. Without victory over sin it is impossible to move forward. It is those who ask for wisdom that it will be granted to them. It is he that seeks that finds. As soon as we reject what is written in the Word of God and start making things up we are lost.

We are not living under the Old Covenant of the Feasts.
We are under the New Covenant whereby ALL the Feasts are fulfilled in Christ.

There have been no harvests, so the feasts have not been fulfilled.

Worshipping Israel of the flesh, who are in bondage with her children, will only cause erroneous conclusions of Scripture.

Get on the side of Truth = submit to God resist man-made doctrines and you will begin to SEE as God gives you the ability.

I see that there are two raptures. Few do.

 

[David in NJ]

1 Cor 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Why would I possibly see the rapture of the Church in 1 Cor 15? If I had no understanding, well of course I would see the rapture of the Church. However, I notice that the dead and alive are changed at the twinkling of an eye. If it was the Church the dead in Christ would rise first and the alive that remained would be caught up when the Lord returned for them as the alive will not precede the dead. And God will bring the dead with Him when He comes for the alive. I also notice that this rapture in 1 Cor 15 happens at the last trump. I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets a fall harvest feast. The Church will be raptured in the summer, hence "summer is near". I also note that the fall feasts are for the Jews. The spring-summer feasts are for the Church. Oh yes, most claim that Christ fullfilled the spring-summer feast but that is not true as there has been no harvest. I also note that when the fall harvest feast for the 12 tribes occurs it will be like the days of Lot as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. If this was about the Church, It would be like the days of Noah. I also note that when the Lord comes during the fall feast He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. If this was the rapture of the Church, the Lord Himself would come. There more as to why it cannot be the Church being discussed in 1 Cor 15 but that should be a good start.


I understand that we are supposed to come God like children, but after that the Lord begins a work in us that He will complete. It includes an education in faith and overcoming. Without faith it is impossible to please him. Without victory over sin it is impossible to move forward. It is those who ask for wisdom that it will be granted to them. It is he that seeks that finds. As soon as we reject what is written in the Word of God and start making things up we are lost.

There have been no harvests, so the feasts have not been fulfilled.


I see that there are two raptures. Few do.

1 Cor 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

SAME Apostle wrote the SAME thing = 1 Thess 4:13-18

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them = "we shall be changed"

pre-trib rapture is a complete lie from satan to divide christians = which it has done

God is calling you to Truth and to forsake the lie of pre-trib rapture so that you suffer no loss at His Judgement.

 

[David in NJ]

1 Cor 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Why would I possibly see the rapture of the Church in 1 Cor 15? If I had no understanding, well of course I would see the rapture of the Church. However, I notice that the dead and alive are changed at the twinkling of an eye. If it was the Church the dead in Christ would rise first and the alive that remained would be caught up when the Lord returned for them as the alive will not precede the dead. And God will bring the dead with Him when He comes for the alive. I also notice that this rapture in 1 Cor 15 happens at the last trump. I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets a fall harvest feast. The Church will be raptured in the summer, hence "summer is near". I also note that the fall feasts are for the Jews. The spring-summer feasts are for the Church. Oh yes, most claim that Christ fullfilled the spring-summer feast but that is not true as there has been no harvest. I also note that when the fall harvest feast for the 12 tribes occurs it will be like the days of Lot as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. If this was about the Church, It would be like the days of Noah. I also note that when the Lord comes during the fall feast He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. If this was the rapture of the Church, the Lord Himself would come. There more as to why it cannot be the Church being discussed in 1 Cor 15 but that should be a good start.


I understand that we are supposed to come God like children, but after that the Lord begins a work in us that He will complete. It includes an education in faith and overcoming. Without faith it is impossible to please him. Without victory over sin it is impossible to move forward. It is those who ask for wisdom that it will be granted to them. It is he that seeks that finds. As soon as we reject what is written in the Word of God and start making things up we are lost.

There have been no harvests, so the feasts have not been fulfilled.


I see that there are two raptures. Few do.

@The Light says: "As soon as we reject what is written in the Word of God and start making things up we are lost."

This is EXACTLY what you and all pre-fibbers do = make things up as you deny scripture and then add your own words upon scripture.

You deny 1 Cor ch15 is the SAME Truth from the SAME Apostle who said the SAME thing in 1 Thess 4:13-18

You add to God's words what HE never said = "I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets a fall harvest feast. The Church will be raptured in the summer, hence "summer is near". I also note that the fall feasts are for the Jews. The spring-summer feasts are for the Church"

ALL the Feasts are fulfilled in CHRIST = for the Jew and the Gentile = Ephesians , Galatians , Romans , Acts , Gospel of John

CHRIST said there will be only ONE Harvest which started 2,000 Years ago = Matt 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Harvest BEGAN when Christ walked this earth = Luke 10:1-2
After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.
Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few;
therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.

The Harvest is the Gospel = Matthew 24:14 = And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The ONE Harvest is Finalized at His Second Coming = Matthew 13:37-43
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil,
the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

Your choice - Believe the Scriptures posted here or reject them and hold unto the heresy of pre-trib rapture.

 

[ewq1938]

We have one scripture in 1 Thes 4 that says the dead in Christ are raised first and then the alive believers that remained will be caught up. Then we have another scripture in 1 Corinthians 15 that says the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. And neither of them happens at the 7th trumpet blown by an angel.

When the 7th and last trump sounds, Christ will leave heaven in the beginning of the second coming, the dead in Christ will resurrect and the living will be changed and raptured up to the clouds.

The gathering is from heaven and earth according to the Word. Consider this verse.

Matthew 24
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The first heaven is the uttermost or further away from where God is in the third heaven. The living on the Earth will be gathered from the Earth to that area in the first heaven where the clouds are.

There is a barley harvest, Passover. There is a wheat harvest. Pentecost. and there is a fruit harvest. Feast of Trumpets. Until you understand Gods harvest feasts, you will not understand end times.

They are not mentioned or are a part of NT end times prophecy. You are taking things from teh OT and inserting them into the NT where they have no place and are not even mentioned.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I oppose the pre-trib rapture.
But now I back off a bit, as when I prove rapture to heaven believers to be wrong, it most often excites a very hateful and abusive response. It is not my wish to cause people to act in such a nasty way against anyone who challenges their precious beliefs. I have, in fact; received harmful threats.
God will show everyone, including me; the fulfilment of His plans for the end times.

Basically, we must stay strong in our faith, thru whatever happens and God will reward us for trusting in Him.
I view the 'rapture', as an escapist policy, that displays inadequate trust in the Lord for His help and protection through all that must happen, before the glorious Return of Jesus, when all who have proved their loyalty to Jesus, will be rewarded. Revelation 5:9-10

I do not as a rule do any personal attacks.
I assume you are a postribber.
I have yet to see any postrib rapture verses...
None of the other members have posted one.
Maybe you possibly have one?

"I oppose the pretrib rapture"
I see this a lot.
That is called comdemnation before investigation.
Only pretrib fits.
However, scripture is not respected in the postrib rapture theory, because scripture destroys anything but a pretrib rapture setting.
The setting only points to a pretrib rapture.
Jesus placed the rapture setting pretrib.
Lot, HAS TO BE REFRAMED for the postribber, as it VIVIDLY places the gathering prejudgement.

 

[rebuilder 454]

When the 7th and last trump sounds, Christ will leave heaven in the beginning of the second coming, the dead in Christ will resurrect and the living will be changed and raptured up to the clouds.





The first heaven is the uttermost or further away from where God is in the third heaven. The living on the Earth will be gathered from the Earth to that area in the first heaven where the clouds are.







They are not mentioned or are a part of NT end times prophecy. You are taking things from teh OT and inserting them into the NT where they have no place and are not even mentioned.

You said earlier that the 144 k are gathered AFTER The rapture.
Now you place the rapture at the second coming on white horses.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@rebuilder 454 and @The Light
The point is, here were 2 examples that both have a resurrection happening in the Kingdom. Is there a third to match these 2? Yes.

The third proof that backs the 2 posted also has a judgment and a reward in the kingdom. Rev 11:18, after the kingdoms of this world becomes Christ,

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,

edit:

Luke 18:30
Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Not 7 years beforehand, but in the world to come.

According to Luke 19:15, when does Christ return to reward us?

And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

In the rapture Only The Dead In Christ are risen .
It is not the general Resurrection after the millennium

 

[The Light]

However, scripture is not respected in the postrib rapture theory, because scripture destroys anything but a pretrib rapture setting.
The setting only points to a pretrib rapture.
Jesus placed the rapture setting pretrib.
Lot, HAS TO BE REFRAMED for the postribber, as it VIVIDLY places the gathering prejudgement.

There are two raptures. One pretrib for the Church and one post trib for the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman. That is why there are 144,000 first fruits. The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, go through the wrath of God. All believers are at the marriage supper.

Now I understand what you are saying about Lot needing to be reframed. Lot leaves Sodom before wrath. And most that claim to be post trib are really post wrath as the tribulation is over at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars

So actually Jesus comes at the 6th seal and then the 7th is opened and the trumpets of wrath begins. There is a harvest at the 6th seal and then destruction just as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

The Church, obviously, will be raptured before the seals are opened when it is like the days of Noah. Look around. We are there.

 

[The Light]

When the 7th and last trump sounds, Christ will leave heaven in the beginning of the second coming, the dead in Christ will resurrect and the living will be changed and raptured up to the clouds.

The second coming when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord takes place at the harvest at the 6th seal. This coming is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. The last trumpet is the second advent when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom.

The first heaven is the uttermost or further away from where God is in the third heaven. The living on the Earth will be gathered from the Earth to that area in the first heaven where the clouds are.

The problem is that He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is already in heaven so it is the Church that is gathered from heaven and it is the seed of the woman gathered from the earth.

They are not mentioned or are a part of NT end times prophecy. You are taking things from teh OT and inserting them into the NT where they have no place and are not even mentioned.

Serioulsy?

And it got quiet about the Feast of Tabernacles being kept through the Millennium showing that the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is not the last trump.

I guess that came from the Old Testament so this truth and fact can be rejected?

 

[The Light]

You deny 1 Cor ch15 is the SAME Truth from the SAME Apostle who said the SAME thing in 1 Thess 4:13-18

You see one rapture when the scripture shows two, a grain and a fruit harvest. The fig tree has two harvests........FACT. Jacob had two brides....FACT. One coming the Lord Himself comes for the bride. Another coming He sends His angels. One coming it is like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lot.

So you can see one coming if you choose, but you will be in error, as you are.

You add to God's words what HE never said = "I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets a fall harvest feast. The Church will be raptured in the summer, hence "summer is near". I also note that the fall feasts are for the Jews. The spring-summer feasts are for the Church"

I added nothing. I said I understand that the last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets and it is. What has been added? The Church will be raptured in the summer, no mystery there. The dead in Christ rise first, barley harvest. The alive that remain are raptured, wheat harvest. The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, fruit harvest. I can't help it if you don't understand. If you understood you would see the Lord is at door and it will soon open.

ALL the Feasts are fulfilled in CHRIST = for the Jew and the Gentile = Ephesians , Galatians , Romans , Acts , Gospel of John

Christ fulfills all the feasts, but they are not fulfilled until there is a harvest. When He comes for the dead in Christ, that is the Passover barley harvest. When He comes for the alive that remains that is the true Pentecost Feast of New Wine, wheat harvest. When He comes at the 6th seal, that is the Feast of Trumpets, fruit harvest. When He returns to earth and sets up His kingdom that will be the Feast of Tabernacles. These feasts lay out the plan of God.

CHRIST said there will be only ONE Harvest which started 2,000 Years ago = Matt 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Strawman.

The Harvest BEGAN when Christ walked this earth = Luke 10:1-2
After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.
Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few;
therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.

The Harvest is the Gospel = Matthew 24:14 = And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The harvest is not the Gospel. The Gospel is the seed.

The ONE Harvest is Finalized at His Second Coming = Matthew 13:37-43
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil,
the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

There is a harvest at the end of the age and it occurs at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

Your choice - Believe the Scriptures posted here or reject them and hold unto the heresy of pre-trib rapture.

You don't have enough lamp oil as you cannot see what is all around you. You have no understanding what is getting ready to happen. You should be watching so you will know instead of speaking against the plan of God.

 

[David in NJ]

You see one rapture when the scripture shows two, a grain and a fruit harvest. The fig tree has two harvests........FACT. Jacob had two brides....FACT. One coming the Lord Himself comes for the bride. Another coming He sends His angels. One coming it is like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lot.

So you can see one coming if you choose, but you will be in error, as you are.


I added nothing. I said I understand that the last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets and it is. What has been added? The Church will be raptured in the summer, no mystery there. The dead in Christ rise first, barley harvest. The alive that remain are raptured, wheat harvest. The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, fruit harvest. I can't help it if you don't understand. If you understood you would see the Lord is at door and it will soon open.


Christ fulfills all the feasts, but they are not fulfilled until there is a harvest. When He comes for the dead in Christ, that is the Passover barley harvest. When He comes for the alive that remains that is the true Pentecost Feast of New Wine, wheat harvest. When He comes at the 6th seal, that is the Feast of Trumpets, fruit harvest. When He returns to earth and sets up His kingdom that will be the Feast of Tabernacles. These feasts lay out the plan of God.

Strawman.


The harvest is not the Gospel. The Gospel is the seed.

There is a harvest at the end of the age and it occurs at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.


You don't have enough lamp oil as you cannot see what is all around you. You have no understanding what is getting ready to happen. You should be watching so you will know instead of speaking against the plan of God.

@The Light says: "The fig tree has two harvests........FACT. Jacob had two brides....FACT."

Fig Tree fact points to THE FACT = OT Saints and NT Saints from the SAME TREE = Romans ch11

Jacob's 2 wives fact points to THE FACT = OT Covenant(Leah) and NT Covenant(Rachel) from ONE WORD.

FACT Check: The LORD Jesus only has ONE Bride = Ephesians ch2 = Know your ABC's

A.) Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. = Near to Who & What???

B.) For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both(Jew & Gentile) have access by One Spirit to the Father.

C.) Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
in whom the whole building, being fitted together(Jew & Gentile), grows into a Holy Temple in the Lord
in whom you also are being built together(Jew & Gentile) for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. = Rev ch14 & ch21

 

[rebuilder 454]

There are two raptures. One pretrib for the Church and one post trib for the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman. That is why there are 144,000 first fruits. The woman, Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, go through the wrath of God. All believers are at the marriage supper.

Now I understand what you are saying about Lot needing to be reframed. Lot leaves Sodom before wrath. And most that claim to be post trib are really post wrath as the tribulation is over at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars

So actually Jesus comes at the 6th seal and then the 7th is opened and the trumpets of wrath begins. There is a harvest at the 6th seal and then destruction just as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

The Church, obviously, will be raptured before the seals are opened when it is like the days of Noah. Look around. We are there.

nope.
we are not there.
4 Horsemen have not arrived
AC has not arrived or revealed.
The judgement of the 4 horsemen has not happened.
The mark has not come.
If we assume mid trib rapture (what you guys now call "postribprewrath" Then what Jesus describes as the setting is wrong.
"buying ,selling, normal life"
The world is upside down at mid trib. The rapture has happened, those left behind are martyred and gathered. ( "innumerable number of martyrs before the throne"... "... all eaths inhabitants have taken the mark" ) All during the trib.
Only pretrib fits.
Midtrib there is a rapture.
The Jews.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@The Light says: "The fig tree has two harvests........FACT. Jacob had two brides....FACT."

Fig Tree fact points to THE FACT = OT Saints and NT Saints from the SAME TREE = Romans ch11

Jacob's 2 wives fact points to THE FACT = OT Covenant(Leah) and NT Covenant(Rachel) from ONE WORD.

FACT Check: The LORD Jesus only has ONE Bride = Ephesians ch2 = Know your ABC's

A.) Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. = Near to Who & What???

B.) For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
For through Him we both(Jew & Gentile) have access by One Spirit to the Father.

C.) Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
in whom the whole building, being fitted together(Jew & Gentile), grows into a Holy Temple in the Lord
in whom you also are being built together(Jew & Gentile) for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. = Rev ch14 & ch21

Omission.
Always omit verses from rom 11.
Why?????????

Nobody, noone, is disputing the tree is Jesus.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The second coming when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord takes place at the harvest at the 6th seal. This coming is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. The last trumpet is the second advent when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom.

The problem is that He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is already in heaven so it is the Church that is gathered from heaven and it is the seed of the woman gathered from the earth.


Serioulsy?

And it got quiet about the Feast of Tabernacles being kept through the Millennium showing that the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is not the last trump.

I guess that came from the Old Testament so this truth and fact can be rejected?

Pretty sure the "last trump" is blown every year at the feast of trumpets where trumpets are blown in sets a timeframes.

 

[rebuilder 454]

If you cannot SEE the rapture of the Church in 1 Cor ch15, you need to reevaluate what you believe.
God spoke STRAIGHTFORWARD Truth in the Gospel that a child can understand.

We are not living under the Old Covenant of the Feasts.
We are under the New Covenant whereby ALL the Feasts are fulfilled in Christ.
Worshipping Israel of the flesh, who are in bondage with her children, will only cause erroneous conclusions of Scripture.

Get on the side of Truth = submit to God resist man-made doctrines and you will begin to SEE as God gives you the ability.

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

In perfect order of the pretrib rapture.
In perfect alignment of Noah, and Lot as pretrib gathering setting that Jesus depicts.

 

[The Light]

Pretty sure the "last trump" is blown every year at the feast of trumpets where trumpets are blown in sets a timeframes.

I'm pretty sure of that also. I should have said the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is the second advent when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom. (what they think is the last trumpet),

 

[The Light]

Midtrib there is a rapture.
The Jews.

There is a rapture, the Jews, but that is not Midtrib. It is post trib before the wrath of God. The rapture in Revelation 14 takes place at the 6th seal. The 6th seal is immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God.