The 144,000 before God at the end.

[David in NJ]

The Holy Spirit an I have a cooperative relationship. I doubt I grieve Him too much. He has truly enlightened my understanding of scripture for tha past 32 years.

The Holy Spirit will NEVER cause division in the Body of Christ, religion will.

The Holy Spirit will NEVER tell the Body of Christ two opposing 'truths', religion will.

The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS confirm a 'truth' from more then one location in Scripture =
‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

Based on these irrefutable Truths, currently, you are not cooperating with the Holy Spirit on this subject.

 

[David in NJ]

The Church is represented by 10 (Completion) Virgin Brides who do not have to be virgins, we are virgins in Christ who has purified us. Likewise there is n o 144,000 it like the 10 virgins is a representation of all the Jews who come to Christ, but they have the Fathers name in their foreheads, meanwhile we will marry the Lamb.

Rev. 14 is "The Harvest Chapter": The Church is seen in vs. 14 in a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture, movies can flashback, so can God in chapters. As a matter of fact Zech. 13 is about the end times, but verses 6-7 is a flashback to Jesus' death. The Jews will not even be at Mt. Zion, that just represents the Kingdom Age promise, they will be in hiding in the Petra/Bozrah area, its mere prose, showing who rules with Jesus, as human being, during the Kingdom Age, the Jews (144,000) are the First-fruits of the Jews, they are the Wheat that grows together with the tares until the end (2nd coming). We the Church are not the wheat, we are the Barley First-fruits which can be sifted without being crushed. Lastly we see the Wicked harvested in verses 17-20. Don't overthink it.

@Ronald D Milam says: " Don't overthink it."

i like your thesis: "Don't overthink it"

God likes that also and wrote the Scriptures for us this way as well = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

18Therefore comfort one another with these words. = same as "Don't overthink it"

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Holy Spirit will NEVER cause division in the Body of Christ, religion will.

The Holy Spirit will NEVER tell the Body of Christ two opposing 'truths', religion will.

The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS confirm a 'truth' from more then one location in Scripture =
‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’

Based on these irrefutable Truths, currently, you are not cooperating with the Holy Spirit on this subject.

Personal attacks against my relationship with God are against forum rules. There are many disagreements in the arena of eschatology ... a half dozen or more views and then even differences within those views. Your implications are insulting, disgraceful and derogatory. This is typical with someone who is losing a argument, is frustrated, can't find anywhere else to go but to attack his opponent with ad hominems.
Your attacks:
>>"You need to repent from false doctrine that divides Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ = pre-trib rapture" in post 132 to me.
>> "You will find REST/TRUTH in believing "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God" = Matthew 4:4" in post 132 to me
>> "Do you believe the Bible or not?" Post 136
"
>> "Your other dilemma is that your religion creates TWO separate Wives for Christ, which is another heresy." To me in #188. "My religion" as if other than Christian and then implying I am a heretic.
>> "Currently, you are rejecting the Holy Spirit Plain Sense of the Gospel = John ch1 and Ephesians ch2 and Revelation ch1-ch6" to me in #193
You are on report!

 

[David in NJ]

Personal attacks against my relationship with God are against forum rules. There are many disagreements in the arena of eschatology ... a half dozen or more views and then even differences within those views. Your implications are insulting, disgraceful and derogatory. This is typical with someone who is losing a argument, is frustrated, can't find anywhere else to go but to attack his opponent with ad hominems.
Your attacks:
>>"You need to repent from false doctrine that divides Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ = pre-trib rapture" in post 132 to me.
>> "You will find REST/TRUTH in believing "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God" = Matthew 4:4" in post 132 to me
>> "Do you believe the Bible or not?" Post 136
"
>> "Your other dilemma is that your religion creates TWO separate Wives for Christ, which is another heresy." To me in #188. "My religion" as if other than Christian and then implying I am a heretic.
>> "Currently, you are rejecting the Holy Spirit Plain Sense of the Gospel = John ch1 and Ephesians ch2 and Revelation ch1-ch6" to me in #193
You are on report!

Thank you for reposting my comments for not one is a personal attack.

Your religion has you now in full blown 'hate' mode

 

[David in NJ]

@amigo de christo @marks @Brakelite @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d @No Pre-TB @covenantee @St. SteVen
@Fullness of the Gentiles @Nancy

i have been falsely accused of being anti-semtic a couple of times here on CBF and this is hurtful and completely false

My wife is Jewish TWICE Over = She is 100% Jewish from both of her Jewish parents and She is SAVED by the Blood of Messiah JESUS
Since the woman determines the SEED, my children were born Jewish according to the seed of their Jewish Mother
My rabbi friends, who i see weekly also agree that my home and heart is warmly open to the Jewish People.
First picture is with my son putting on tefillin.
Second picture is with Samuel and myself as we open up the Bible and discuss JESUS
Third picture is with Asher and Samuel who weekly visit my home.
If you love the Jewish people, please keep Asher and Samuel in prayer and myself as well that God may open the Scriptures to them to SEE their MESSIAH = YESHUA Ha-MOSHIACH

 

[Keraz]

QUESTION: Can you find a scripture that confirms "144000 are missionaries.

Isaiah 66:19 I shall put a sign on them and I shall send them to the nations...... where they will proclaim My glory.

Luke 10:1-10 is the forerunner for the 144,000, to go out in pairs to all the world, Two of them will stay in Jerusalem; the 2 Witnesses. Rev 11:3-13
They will have the power over snakes and scorpions and all the forces of the enemy. Luke 10:19

 

[Hobie]

144,000 is symbolic of the Body of Christ

Here is a good study on it to look through.. Who Are The 144,000? | Inside Report | Amazing Facts

 

[No Pre-TB]

Isaiah 66:19 I shall put a sign on them and I shall send them to the nations...... where they will proclaim My glory.

Luke 10:1-10 is the forerunner for the 144,000, to go out in pairs to all the world, Two of them will stay in Jerusalem; the 2 Witnesses. Rev 11:3-13
They will have the power over snakes and scorpions and all the forces of the enemy. Luke 10:19

Most understand this as a sign is given, not a sign on their persons. Most translations do not take it the way you’re presenting it here. What is accurate is that they will go out as missionaries, but most believe this is referring to the apostles

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Church is represented by 10 (Completion) Virgin Brides who do not have to be virgins, we are virgins in Christ who has purified us. Likewise there is n o 144,000 it like the 10 virgins is a representation of all the Jews who come to Christ, but they have the Fathers name in their foreheads, meanwhile we will marry the Lamb.

Rev. 14 is "The Harvest Chapter": The Church is seen in vs. 14 in a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture, movies can flashback, so can God in chapters. As a matter of fact Zech. 13 is about the end times, but verses 6-7 is a flashback to Jesus' death. The Jews will not even be at Mt. Zion, that just represents the Kingdom Age promise, they will be in hiding in the Petra/Bozrah area, its mere prose, showing who rules with Jesus, as human being, during the Kingdom Age, the Jews (144,000) are the First-fruits of the Jews, they are the Wheat that grows together with the tares until the end (2nd coming). We the Church are not the wheat, we are the Barley First-fruits which can be sifted without being crushed. Lastly we see the Wicked harvested in verses 17-20. Don't overthink it.

I partially agree with this however I believe the Jewish Harvest is the grape or the Fruit Harvest that come in the summer

 

[rebuilder 454]

Sorry to break your idol but the LORD only established One Group/New Man as His Body and this has been made clear from:
a.) Gospel
b.) Apostles
c.) Revelation
d.) OT Prophecy

Just as there are no 'pre-trib' rapture verses/declarations in Scripture, so also you cannot find a declaration of a specific group of 144k flesh Jews in the Gospel, the Apostles writings, the OT Prophets.

Romans 9 - 11 debunks what you are saying.
Seems every dynamic you bring is a partial picture.
Cherry pick to elevate doctrine.
Then, when verses are put on the table that debunk your investment , you go 2 ways.
1) Shoot down the messenger
2) condemn it without investigation.

It is as if rom 11 is torn from your bible

 

[No Pre-TB]

Romans 9 - 11 debunks what you are saying.
Seems every dynamic you bring is a partial picture.
Cherry pick to elevate doctrine.
Then, when verses are put on the table that debunk your investment , you go 2 ways.
1) Shoot down the messenger
2) condemn it without investigation.

It is as if rom 11 is torn from your bible

Romans clearly states Israel according to the flesh (ex.Jews today that identity as Israelites) are not the children of God nor are they partakers of the promises. Israelites of the spirit, Jew and Gentile, are Abrahams seed, children of God and inherit the promises. There is only 1 group as Gentiles by grace thru faith are grafted into an already existing spiritual Israel. We join in, we don’t supersede.

 

[David in NJ]

Romans 9 - 11 debunks what you are saying.
Seems every dynamic you bring is a partial picture.
Cherry pick to elevate doctrine.
Then, when verses are put on the table that debunk your investment , you go 2 ways.
1) Shoot down the messenger
2) condemn it without investigation.

It is as if rom 11 is torn from your bible

Good Morning,

Coffee is now being served. You are welcome to come over.

 

[David in NJ]

Here is a good study on it to look through.. Who Are The 144,000? | Inside Report | Amazing Facts

Thank you

 

[David in NJ]

Isaiah 66:19 I shall put a sign on them and I shall send them to the nations...... where they will proclaim My glory.

Luke 10:1-10 is the forerunner for the 144,000, to go out in pairs to all the world, Two of them will stay in Jerusalem; the 2 Witnesses. Rev 11:3-13
They will have the power over snakes and scorpions and all the forces of the enemy. Luke 10:19

YES, i see the promises of God throughout Scripture.

Especially this one =
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Did God ever say He would remove Gentiles from His Body of Elect Chosen Witnesses?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Romans clearly states Israel according to the flesh (ex.Jews today that identity as Israelites) are not the children of God nor are they partakers of the promises. Israelites of the spirit, Jew and Gentile, are Abrahams seed, children of God and inherit the promises. There is only 1 group as Gentiles by grace thru faith are grafted into an already existing spiritual Israel. We join in, we don’t supersede.

Again, you guys are arriving at your doctrine via omission.
They are gathered last.
No way around it.

 

[David in NJ]

Here is a good study on it to look through.. Who Are The 144,000? | Inside Report | Amazing Facts

Good article - thank you.

This article, unbeknown to itself, supports the Truth of the 144K being Symbolic of the Body of Christ = Loud and Clear

1.	Judah​	=	"I will praise the Lord"
2.	Reuben​	=	"He has looked on me"
3.	Gad​	=	"Granted good fortune"
4.	Asher​	=	"Happy am I"
5.	Naphtali​	=	"My wrestling"
6.	Manasseh​	=	"Making me to forget"
7.	Simeon​	=	"God hears me"
8.	Levi​	=	"Joined to me"
9.	Issachar​	=	"Purchased Me"
10.	Zebulun​	=	"Dwelling"
11.	Joseph​	=	"God will add to me"
12.	Benjamin​	=	"Son of His right hand"

 

[David in NJ]

Again, you guys are arriving at your doctrine via omission.
They are gathered last.
No way around it.

Love Romans especially chapters 9 - 11

Did you know that Romans ch11 will be fulfilled just as it says: Romans 11:25-27

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

 

[David in NJ]

Isaiah 66:19 I shall put a sign on them and I shall send them to the nations...... where they will proclaim My glory.

Luke 10:1-10 is the forerunner for the 144,000, to go out in pairs to all the world, Two of them will stay in Jerusalem; the 2 Witnesses. Rev 11:3-13
They will have the power over snakes and scorpions and all the forces of the enemy. Luke 10:19

The evidence in Scripture that Rev ch7 144K is symbolic of the Body of Christ is overwhelming.

 

[David in NJ]

Most understand this as a sign is given, not a sign on their persons. Most translations do not take it the way you’re presenting it here. What is accurate is that they will go out as missionaries, but most believe this is referring to the apostles

All one has to do is carefully read the Gospel, then Acts and then the Letters.

Revelation is a revealing of CHRIST in GLORY, the Gospel, our Enemy and his plan's(Dragon/Satan), our Glorification in the Faith of Jesus,
the Beautification of the Bride of Christ and the Second Coming of Christ with His Wife(only One Wife/Rev ch7).

 

[bluedragon]

Well the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. The 144,000 are first fruits. That means there will be a harvest of those of the 12 tribes and the 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest.

This is basic stuff. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.

Exactly, the 144,000 are identified ...How can they be defined as "Symbolic"

My understanding from reading, is these 12,000 from each tribe are celibate, pure as the driven snow. At first read one would question ....where would they find 144,000 male virgins ...But, this is Israel and stranger things have happened ....

sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
612,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
712,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
812,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.