The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[Patrick1966]

So you think you can live in sin and be saved.

I think some will be tossed into the Lake of Fire and they're going to suffer but they will also be purified and they will repent and go to Jesus.

 

[Jack]

We've been through this numerous times. It's ok. It's not a salvational issue. You're not going to be condemned for believing that Jesus is an unforgiving sadist that tortures people forever.

You mean this Jesus?

Matthew 13
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Patrick1966]

People who experience this never escape from wherever they are for all eternity.

The scriptures say otherwise.

 

[Patrick1966]

You mean this Jesus?

Matthew 13
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Yes, but they don't remain there FOREVER.

 

[Jack]

I think some will be tossed into the Lake of Fire and they're going to suffer but they will also be purified and they will repent and go to Jesus.

How long will God cook them? Does He have a meat thermometer?

"they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

 

[Jack]

Yes, but they don't remain there FOREVER.

Your Universal opinions do not overrule Jesus.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's not what Paul said. You are mischaracterizing the word of God to make it fit the false doctrine of forever punishment.

I was quoting the verse. And the grammar is indisputable. So I don't know what you mean.

Here's another.

Isaiah 45: 23
By myself I have sworn from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance

 

[teamventure]

Not for anyone before Moses.
You seem to be historically challenged.

So... who in that list had a Bible?

The Torah was God's word to live by as the Old and New testament is today, but you are getting into semantics that don't matter and are irrelevant not to mention illogical.
"They didn't have the written word before Moses = Scripture doesn't matter."

Bottom line is God gave us the written word to guide us to him and his will, those who attack the word are playing on the side of satan. They often use the same arguments athiests use and you're cool with that?

 

[Keiw]

You're referring to the Christian Bible that you said is filled with errors and Satanic?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

contradicts Jesus truth doesn't it, thus you are twisting what Thomas said. Neither of us can prove that Thomas did or didnt look to heaven when he said my God, but its a pure contradiction to what Jesus and Paul teach. Thus i believe he did look to heaven when he said my God--enough of this. Both sides are presented, there is no sense going over and over it.

 

[Keiw]

You're citing the Bible that you said is filled with errors and Satanic?

There are many truths in every translation on earth, there are errors in every altered translation on earth.

 

[Jack]

contradicts Jesus truth doesn't it, thus you are twisting what Thomas said.

I merely quoted Scripture that Kingdom Hall doesn't like.

Neither of us can prove that Thomas did or didnt look to heaven when he said my God,

Really? lol You really seem to struggle with English.

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

but its a pure contradiction to what Jesus and Paul teach. Thus i believe he did look to heaven when he said my God--enough of this. Both sides are presented, there is no sense going over and over it.

YOU are the one doing the twisting! You can't seem to prove anything with your opinions.

NWT Isaiah 44 This is what Jehovah says,The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last.

NWT Rev 1
17 I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever,

Imagine that, even the JW Bible admits Jesus is God, AGAIN!

 

[St. SteVen]

Btw you're missing the point. The point is the Bible and faith in God go hand in hand.

If you came to grips with the fact that the Bible is not inerrant, would you toss the book? (I haven't)

 

[Jack]

The Bible is 'filled with errors' to those who don't like what God said! So they start chopping up God's written Word just like Satan would do.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Torah was God's word to live by as the Old and New testament is today, but you are getting into semantics that don't matter and are irrelevant not to mention illogical.

What I said was true. You made the claim that a person can't have faith without a Bible.
The Faith chapter in the Bible is full of people who had faith but no Bible.
And now you accuse me of "getting into semantics"? - LOL

"They didn't have the written word before Moses = Scripture doesn't matter."

No, "They didn't have the written word before Moses" = you were wrong. (your, no Bible = no faith, claim)

Bottom line is God gave us the written word to guide us to him and his will, those who attack the word are playing on the side of satan. They often use the same arguments athiests use and you're cool with that?

The atheists are right about many things. But Christians consider them enemies, and don't listen to them.
And considers anyone who does listen to them as "playing on the side of satan." Sound familiar?
Even you admit there are "sides". (enemies)

 

[Jack]

There are many truths in every translation on earth, there are errors in every altered translation on earth.

You said our Bible is FILLED with errors.

 

[Patrick1966]

I was quoting the verse. And the grammar is indisputable. So I don't know what you mean.

As ALL in Adam died so in Jesus ALL live. That's what you're misunderstanding.

 

[Patrick1966]

But Christians consider them enemies...

Jesus referred to some of them as swine, but not necessarily to their face. You and I know that atheists are our brothers and sisters to whom God has not yet revealed the son.

 

[Patrick1966]

How long will God cook them? Does He have a meat thermometer?

"they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

 

[Jack]

Lots of folks think Hell is funny now, but when they come face to face with Hell, the worst prison ever, with the worst beings who ever lived they will cry like babies and nobody will care!

Matthew 13
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe

Here's another. All means all.

1 Corinthians 15:22 ESV
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Yes, the term "all" is qualified by a descriptor.

ALL:
"in Adam" indicates every person who was born of Adam, i.e. all human beings.
"in Christ" indicates every person who is a disciple of Christ.

As Paul drew his gospel message to a close, he deemed it helpful to his readers, to sum up the gospel story in two people: Adam and Christ. These two men bracket the story; Adam, born at the beginning of humankind, brought sin into the world, and Christ coming toward the end solved the problem of sin and was the first member of a new kind of human being.

Unfortunately, not all who are in Adam are in Christ.