So what will be the Mark of the Beast at the end time

[MatthewG]

Nero died in AD68. According to Irenaeus, Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian. Preterist believe Gentry and DeMar over Irenaeus.. Then they attempt to discredit Irenaeus by misquoting him saying, "Jesus died at 50 years of age!"

Sorry, also I dont believe everything a "Preterist" fully devout may believe, @wrecked. It's all debatable sir.

 

[MatthewG]

This is all I have to go off of anyway, @wrecked,

Revelation 13:18 18 tThis calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number uof a man, and his number is 666.6

and I dont think it is Donald trump, or Ronald Regan.

People attribute 666 to Satan, but it's a man according here to the text.

 

[MatthewG]

The only question that could be asked is this @wrecked, why was John told to measure the temple, if the temple was not there anymore after 70Ad?

And why didnt John write warning that the same thing that happened to his jewish brothers this would happen again?

The only answer that people who believe that it wasnt in the past is this,

The temple hasnt been built yet; its a future temple, to be built???

Its all debateable and subjective upon the viewer of the contents.

 

[MatthewG]

Internal Evidence​

The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.
The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.
Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

Arguments for the Early Date Answered​

In the absence of external evidence in support of an early date for Revelation, preterists generally rely on what they perceive as internal support for their view.

Writing Style Differences​

It is contended that the Gospel of John has a much smoother style of Greek than does the Apocalypse. Thus, the latter must have been written many years prior to the fourth Gospel—when the apostle was not so experienced in the literary employment of Greek.
In answer to this argument, we cite R. H. Gundry:

B. B. Warfield contends that:

R. H. Charles, author of the commentary on Revelation in the International Critical Commentary series, and perhaps the greatest expert on apocalyptic literature, regarded the so-called bad grammar as deliberate, for purposes of emphasis, and consistent with the citation of numerous Old Testament passages (Gundry, 365). It might be noted that in the 404 verses of Revelation, Westcott and Hort’s Greek New Testament gives over five hundred references and allusions to the Old Testament.

Finally, as McClintock and Strong point out:

No Mention of Jerusalem’s Destruction​

It is claimed that Revelation must have been penned before A.D. 70 since it has no allusion to the destruction of Jerusalem; rather, it is alleged, it represents both the city and the temple as still standing.
In response we note the following points.

First, if John wrote this work near A.D. 96, there would be little need to focus upon the destruction of Jerusalem since the lessons of that catastrophe would have been well learned in the preceding quarter of a century.
However, it must be noted that some scholars see a veiled reference to Jerusalem’s destruction in 11:8, where “the great city,” in which the Savior was crucified (Jerusalem), is called Sodom—not merely because of wickedness, but due to the fact that it was a destroyed city of evil (Zahn 1973, 306).

Second, the contention that the literal city and temple were still standing, based upon chapter eleven, ignores the express symbolic nature of the narrative. Salmon says that it is:

Nero Associated with 666​

Some argue for an early date of the Apocalypse by asserting that the enigmatic 666 (13:18) is a reference to Nero. This is possible only by pursuing the most irresponsible form of exegesis.
To come up with such an interpretation one must:

1. add the title “Caesar” to Nero’s name;
2. compute the letter-number arrangement on the basis of Hebrew, whereas the book was written in Greek; and
3. alter the spelling of “Caesar” by dropping the yodh in the Hebrew.

All of this reveals a truly desperate attempt to find a reference to Nero in the text.
Additionally, Leon Morris has pointed out that Irenaeus discussed a number of possibilities for deciphering the 666, but he did not even include Nero in his list, let alone regard this as a likely conjecture (1980, 38). Noted critic Theodor Zahn observed that Nero was not even suggested as a possibility until the year 1831 (447).
In view of the foregoing evidence, a very strong case can be made for dating Revelation at about A.D. 96. Accordingly, the theory of realized eschatology, which is grounded upon the necessity of the Apocalypse having been written prior to A.D. 70, is shown to be without the necessary foundation for its successful defense, to say nothing of the scores of other scriptural difficulties that plague it.

Whats your source webpage for this ?

 

[Nancy]

I just go with what the Bible says,

Revelation 13:16-17 KJV
16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It's a mark on your right hand or forehead. You will be checked for this when you try to buy and sell, and if you don't have it, you won't be allowed.

Much love!

Remember when we all thought that Barcodes were the mark? Couldn't buy or sell without them. DO you believe that they were just another of many precursors to the true MOB? We've been being groomed all along. It becomes more and more clear to me that, AI is going to play a huge role in the end times...which we are already in!
Not that this pertains but, robots and also, clones always creeped me out. Can't believe I have an Alexa and an Android cell

 

[Scott Downey]

Most people process information and think with their brain - not their forehead.

Dont miss the theme that this is a visible marking. It is more than just the brain thinking, others must see the mark as a witness to the state of a person. The mark is an expression, display to the world, like tattoos are.
This is how people in the first century would think of a marking on the body, like a slave would get from a master. It would not be an abstract concept.

An invisible abstract mark is not carrying much weight-impact with the people around that person. The mark must be more than just a pattern of thinking or an ideology position. All those who receive this mark are doomed to a special destruction

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

 

[marks]

Remember when we all thought that Barcodes were the mark? Couldn't buy or sell without them. DO you believe that they were just another of many precursors to the true MOB? We've been being groomed all along. It becomes more and more clear to me that, AI is going to play a huge role in the end times...which we are already in!
Not that this pertains but, robots and also, clones always creeped me out. Can't believe I have an Alexa and an Android cell

I don't have smart phones, smart speakers, home internet, cable/dish/broadcast TV. I agree with you, and maybe AI is how power is given to the image to speak.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

The only end that I suspect is end of my life. It doesnt seems sense to run around thinking that Gods wrath is gonna come down on America, considering the content and context of the bible itself…

Where are the seven churches, of Asia minor today? They dont seem to exist anymore nor does the Temple?

Perhaps its just thrilling to expect an event thats done past as for human senses are kept on edge though some worry about these things to come along…

Much love to my futurist and calvinst brothers and sisters.

 

[Nancy]

I don't have smart phones, smart speakers, home internet, cable/dish/broadcast TV. I agree with you, and maybe AI is how power is given to the image to speak.

Much love!

You don't have home internet? Are you at the library using their internet? I cut the cord of cable a loooong time ago. Do not watch TV at all but I do have Alexa and, already made playlists from all of my CD's. The other way would be much more expensive. One day we won't even have access to any of them I think.

 

[MatthewG]

thanks for sharing @wrecked. I disagree, but i dont also believe everything you may about certain things.

 

[MatthewG]

@Nancy its a sin to have internet (jokes) or to even watch tv…. I dont think it can be…

God allows all these things for a reason just to not put things before him…

 

[MatthewG]

People go straight to hell for having smart phones….


(im only kidding) so ridculous.

 

[MatthewG]

The two witnesses?

They are - whoever they are - witnesses who minister to Muslim's outside the Dome or Al-Aqsa and well - take it from there.

Maybe it was the testimony of christ by mouth, and christ himself. Id have to look into it.

 

[Nancy]

People go straight to hell for having smart phones….


(im only kidding) so ridculous.

Hi Matthew,
I don't think Christians believe that, lol. But, all the worldly "things" that we do have, like many other things, can and are used for evil as well as good. :)

 

[MatthewG]

There are certain requirements like bringing down fire? Right @wrecked

 

[Scott Downey]

The two witnesses?

They are - whoever they are - witnesses who minister to Muslim's outside the Dome or Al-Aqsa and well - take it from there.

Those two affect all those who live on the entire earth. The whole earth rejoices when they are killed, You don't think all are muslims do you? Islam is going to fall, the worship of the beast and his image, muslims will oppose.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

The Witnesses Killed​

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

 

[MatthewG]

Hi Matthew,
I don't think Christians believe that, lol. But, all the worldly "things" that we do have, like many other things, can and are used for evil as well as good. :)

You always were a critcial thinker Nancy. Thats a good way to look at it, friend.

 

[MatthewG]

Those two affect all those who live on the entire earth. The whole earth rejoices when they are killed, You don't think all are muslims do you? Islam is going to fall, the worship of the beast and his image, muslims will oppose.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

The Witnesses Killed​

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

For three and a half days the people will be celerbrating these deaths and rejoicing and sending gifts to one another! Wow.

 

[MatthewG]

Do you really think that the outrageous things mentioned about the two witnesses in Revelation 11 reflect the very same thing that happened in the gospels? I know John was IN HEAVEN and out of his body when he saw all this go down. But he wasn't out of his mind.

Let's look at it.

The Two Witnesses​

11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. [a]And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the [b]God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

The Witnesses Killed​

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

The Witnesses Resurrected​

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And [e]they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

Seventh Trumpet: The Kingdom Proclaimed​

15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The [f]kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was [g]and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your [h]wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of [i]His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[MatthewG]

Let's go back just a little bit,

Revelation 10:

John Eats the Little Book​

8 Then the voice which I heard from heaven spoke to me again and said, “Go, take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the earth.”

9 So I went to the angel and said to him, “Give me the little book.”

And he said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.”

10 Then I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter. 11 And [d]he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.”