The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[Keiw]

Everlasting means however long it will last. A fire will last as long as there is fuel. Death means something has come to an end be it the Porsch reduced to a cinder in a burning garage or or your favourite doily shredded by the dog.

I wonder how long everlasting life is defined? Does it mean being in a coma unendingly? does it mean sliding down an unending razor blade?
I view the definition of Life as infinite expansion of all that is joyous, hopeful, gracious, patient, colourful, helpful, compassionate, light etc. No wonder Jesus said, No eye has seen, no ear heard, it has not even entered the mind the things God has prepared for those who love him.

....and everlasting Death, what does it mean? I visualise it as an imploding star. Life is withdrawn totally. Only blackness remains. Nothing. No sound, no sight, no sense, no reality. When all fuel is consumed everything stops.

The second death is everlasting!

Yes eternal death is the outcome for the unrighteous.

 

[Instant]

God is love, merciful, filled with loving kindness, and justice--not the sadist being taught with an unjust literal place of eternal suffering. Best to get to know the true living God.

I believe the Bible. Believe anything you want.

 

[Keiw]

Why don't you quote the Scriptures instead of spewing your JW 'education'? Aren't you allowed to quote Scriptures?

Why are you to lazy to look up 2 scriptures? How can you apply Jesus Fathers will if you aren't like the Bereans and make sure of all things. God didn't command me to make sure of all things for you, he commanded you to make sure of all things for you.

 

[Instant]

I share facts. God warned all of you--GET OUT OF HER.

We were warned to come out from among the world. That is what the Bible is saying.

 

[Keiw]

We were warned to come out from among the world. That is what the Bible is saying.

In revelation God warned about getting out of-Babylon the great= worldwide false religions-99% of all religions makes up Babylon the great.

 

[Grailhunter]

Deut 32:4- all of Gods ways are justice--He taught all perfect justice=An eye for an eye= perfect balance on Gods justice scales-uncorruptable--Lets apply those scales to a literal eternal suffering--70-100 years of an unrepented sinful life on one side of those scales---- Trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of punishment to suffer---See any balance? Its more like an eye for a gazillion eyes to be literal, but we know God is love and just. Its symbolic for the following
As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those not allowed in miss each day, miss each day of Gods love, it never ends--likened to be an eternal suffering.

First off you are quoting an Old Testament scripture....God never threatened the Jews with Hell nor offered them salvation that lead to Heaven.

The Jews in the Old Testament did not believe in a Hell or a devil and still to this day do not believe in a Hell or a devil. There ultimate destination was Sheol.

But Christ and Apostles in the New Testament warned over and over about a fiery place of eternal punishment. They used so many different words to describe this that any type of word play can be easily seen as a deception. Hell exist for those that do not believe in Christ as well a sinful Christians.....Fry baby fry!

 

[Instant]

In revelation God warned about getting out of-Babylon the great= worldwide false religions-99% of all religions makes up Babylon the great.

What is it about your religion that convinces you it is that 1 in 100 that is true?

 

[St. SteVen]

Probably because there is no reason to think otherwise. Also, there are clues, like where Jesus in his story of the rich man and Lazarus describes it as a place of extreme heat.

Abraham explains to the Rich Man why he is there.
Do you recall the reason Jesus gave for the Rich man to be in hell?
Does that match your doctrine of why someone would be in hell?
If not, why would Jesus give that reason?

There may be good reasons to think the fire in hell is not literal.
Would a coal from a fire burn your lips?

Isaiah 6:5-7 NIV
“Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined!
For I am a man of unclean lips,
and I live among a people of unclean lips,
and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand,
which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips;
your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”

 

[Keiw]

What is it about your religion that convinces you it is that 1 in 100 that is true?

The teachings of Jesus in every translation on earth back my teachers. The facts of true God worship history back my teachers.

 

[Keiw]

First off you are quoting an Old Testament scripture....God never threatened the Jews with Hell nor offered them salvation that lead to Heaven.

The Jews in the Old Testament did not believe in a Hell or a devil and still to this day do not believe in a Hell or a devil. There ultimate destination was Sheol.

But Christ and Apostles in the New Testament warned over and over about a fiery place of eternal punishment. They used so many different words to describe this that any type of word play can be easily seen as a deception. Hell exist for those that do not believe in Christ as well a sinful Christians.....Fry baby fry!

The book of Job mentions the devil. Job 1) So yes they knew of the devil.
The Hebrew word-Sheol=The Greek word Hades, both translate the grave--Hades= hell. The grave is where all go that die, all thought stops.

 

[Instant]

Abraham explains to the Rich Man why he is there.
Do you recall the reason Jesus gave for the Rich man to be in hell?
Does that match your doctrine of why someone would be in hell?
If not, why would Jesus give that reason?

There may be good reasons to think the fire in hell is not literal.
Would a coal from a fire burn your lips?

Isaiah 6:5-7 NIV
“Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined!
For I am a man of unclean lips,
and I live among a people of unclean lips,
and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand,
which he had taken with tongs from the altar.
7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips;
your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”

Jesus is our final judge, and whatever he says, I believe without question. Isaiah stood before God in what I believe was a vision, and in that vision, God placed a coal on his lips. It would not have harmed him anymore than we are physically harmed in a dream. That is different from the story Jesus gave of the rich man whose physical body was dead and his soul was literally in hell.

 

[Instant]

The teachings of Jesus in every translation on earth back my teachers. The facts of true God worship history back my teachers.

How is it your teachers have this truth and nobody else does? Where did they get this truth?

 

[Jack]

There is literal fire in hell.

Absolutely!

 

[Jack]

I share facts. God warned all of you--GET OUT OF HER.

Is that why you won't tell us how long you've been JW?

 

[Jack]

Why are you to lazy to look up 2 scriptures? How can you apply Jesus Fathers will if you aren't like the Bereans and make sure of all things. God didn't command me to make sure of all things for you, he commanded you to make sure of all things for you.

I quote Scriptures all the time. You avoid them. Quit giving us your Watch Tower opinions. Give us Scripture! Even your NWT says you're WRONG!

 

[Patrick1966]

There is literal fire in hell.

Are people that go there stuck there forever?

 

[Jack]

Are people that go there stuck there forever?

You have been cited the Scriptures many times. One more time will not convince you that Univeralism is Satanic.

 

[Grailhunter]

The book of Job mentions the devil. Job 1) So yes they knew of the devil.
The Hebrew word-Sheol=The Greek word Hades, both translate the grave--Hades= hell. The grave is where all go that die, all thought stops.

Correction the Book of Job mentions Satan....in fact it is the Book where Satan is actually and mostly mentioned in the Old Testament. In Job he is not identified as a demon. At that point he is welcome in the Holy Court of God...reading as it is, it was a normal occurrence for him to appear there with no indication of animosities between him and Yahweh. The topic turns to Job and they both agree to test him. At one time Satan was a senior angel and it appears in Job that he was the tester of righteousness. Not yet an enemy of God and Man.

Which brings up another topic....there is no agreement of the time period of the Book of Job, nor the fall of the Angels. Although the Jews do not believe in a devil they did and do believe in malicious spirits or maybe angels and the name Satan in Hebrew came to mean in general anyone that was an Adversary or Accuser or Opposer.

For example from the Jewish Virtual Library…
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God

 

[MatthewG]

Correction the Book of Job mentions Satan....in fact it is the Book where Satan is actually and mostly mentioned in the Old Testament. In Job he is not identified as a demon. At that point he is welcome in the Holy Court of God...reading as it is, it was a normal occurrence for him to appear there with no indication of animosities between him and Yahweh. The topic turns to Job and they both agree to test him. At one time Satan was a senior angel and it appears in Job that he was the tester of righteousness. Not yet an enemy of God and Man.

Which brings up another topic....there is no agreement of the time period of the Book of Job, nor the fall of the Angels. Although the Jews do not believe in a devil they did and do believe in malicious spirits or maybe angels and the name Satan in Hebrew came to mean in general anyone that was an Adversary or Accuser or Opposer.

For example from the Jewish Virtual Library…
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God

On top of all of this Satan could only accuse in face of the Jewish Law. That is gone now today... and so is Satan.

The only adversity you face is you yourself and I suppose the influences of the world that lead to the pride of life, the lust of the eyes, and the lust of the flesh. (Not others, or Satan).

 

[Jack]

On top of all of this Satan could only accuse in face of the Jewish Law. That is gone now today... and so is Satan.

The only adversity you face is you yourself and I suppose the influences of the world that lead to the pride of life, the lust of the eyes, and the lust of the flesh. (Not others, or Satan).

Satan is gone? lol He LOVES that doctrine!

1 Timothy 5
15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.